[Livetodrive]

We took a 2 hr. drive to Baltimore last weekend in the mild snowstorm. Ice and snow caked the collision sensor in the bumper, causing the adaptive cruise control to disengage with a dirty sensor warning. I cleaned it off at a rest stop, but that only helped for five minutes. There is no way to disengage only the "adaptive" portion of the cruise control. BMW, if you're listening, you may want to add a little heater on that sensor, and provide a means to engage only the regular cruise. Otherwise, the car, with the X-drive and only all-season RFTs behaved like a champ. Yesterday we used up our last free car wash coupon at the dealer to have the road salt washed off. They even sprayed the undercarriage for me.

[Speed-NYC]

The snow disabled my ACC the other day as well. I didnt try regular cruise control but I dont think I've ever used the regular cruise control. If there is no one in front of me then I'm having fun instead.

[Wires]

Cruise Control + snow = tragic consequences....

[COKen]

Originally Posted by Speed-NYC

The snow disabled my ACC the other day as well. I didnt try regular cruise control but I dont think I've ever used the regular cruise control. If there is no one in front of me then I'm having fun instead.

If you can figure out how to turn on regular cruise control if your car has ACC please let me know. I don't think it is possible.

[HFW003]

Push and hold either of the distance to car in front buttons on the steering wheel.

I think I just heard BMW say Livetodrive , if you’re listening,

[RoundelM3]

Are we beginning to see the fallacy of "self-driving cars"?

[COKen]

Originally Posted by HFW003

Push and hold either of the distance to car in front buttons on the steering wheel.

I think I just heard BMW say Livetodrive , if you’re listening,

I'm guessing that I have "RTFM" more than most, but the section of which you talk is not in my manual. Maybe it is a model/year thing. I'll try what you suggest and see what happens. Also, I'm very aware of how and when to use the cruse control, but there are times when the roads are only damp but the spray will cover the sensor and freeze killing ACC. While this may not be the best time to use CC, it is not as dangerous as is suggested.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by roundel335

Are we beginning to see the fallacy of "self-driving cars"?

If anything it points out another benefit, as any computer up to the task would know that in bad weather keeping a constant speed is a bad idea, whereas increased awareness of the driving conditions and constantly compensating for them isn't optional, it's mandatory. If it's bad enough to render sensors inoperable it's bad enough to affect tire traction.

[stormlv]

Unfortunately the placement and shape of the radar detector is quite bad on the 3/4 Series.

My ACC regularly gave a warning in bad weather. (Note that it gives a warning even if you're not actively using it)

My former Volvo S60 however never had any issues with this...





If you look at the Volvo ACC, it's located much higher up than the BMW's one.
More importantly, their detector is not flat, which means that it's less likely to accumulate snow on it...

[RoundelM3]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

If anything it points out another benefit, as any computer up to the task would know that in bad weather keeping a constant speed is a bad idea, whereas increased awareness of the driving conditions and constantly compensating for them isn't optional, it's mandatory. If it's bad enough to render sensors inoperable it's bad enough to affect tire traction.

So what's it going to do in that situation? If a car is "self-driving", what's it going to do in bad weather when the car-to-car proximity sensors are compromised and the cameras are blinded? Is it going to tell the driver "we're not going anywhere in these unsafe conditions" or pull to the side of the road and refuse to move (assuming it can find the side of the road)? Bad weather - be it rain, snow, flooding, high winds, ice, etc. - brings up another challenge to the AI programmers. Is it going to be able to "sense" high water or a falling tree? The number of "cases" in the required logic becomes exponentially higher when you throw in less-than-optimal weather conditions.

If you think about it - what are the possibilities of creating a robot that would be capable of safely operating a car or other vehicle in any type of weather conditions? I'm not sure even Asimov thought that one through. I think there's a staggering amount of Artificial Intelligence R&D that will have to be completed before "autonomous" vehicles are fully accepted and certified safe. Even if they're just for package/cargo delivery with no passengers on board, will they be able to cope with unpredictable human behavior?

The only way autonomous vehicles will be safe is if they can communicate with all other vehicles on the road - whether or not they're autonomous or driven by a human. Either that, or they're going to have ti figure a way to miniaturize "Watson" to fit into the average car.

[stormlv]

Originally Posted by roundel335

So what's it going to do in that situation? If a car is "self-driving", what's it going to do in bad weather when the car-to-car proximity sensors are compromised and the cameras are blinded? Is it going to tell the driver "we're not going anywhere in these unsafe conditions" or pull to the side of the road and refuse to move (assuming it can find the side of the road)? Bad weather - be it rain, snow, flooding, high winds, ice, etc. - brings up another challenge to the AI programmers. Is it going to be able to "sense" high water or a falling tree? The number of "cases" in the required logic becomes exponentially higher when you throw in less-than-optimal weather conditions.

If you think about it - what are the possibilities of creating a robot that would be capable of safely operating a car or other vehicle in any type of weather conditions? I'm not sure even Asimov thought that one through. I think there's a staggering amount of Artificial Intelligence R&D that will have to be completed before "autonomous" vehicles are fully accepted and certified safe. Even if they're just for package/cargo delivery with no passengers on board, will they be able to cope with unpredictable human behavior?

The only way autonomous vehicles will be safe is if they can communicate with all other vehicles on the road - whether or not they're autonomous or driven by a human. Either that, or they're going to have ti figure a way to miniaturize "Watson" to fit into the average car.

Sorry for being a bit but I wanted to share some of my thoughts on this as well.

Commercial self driving cars might not be as far off as one may think.
There's tremendous progress made in this field every day and more and more companies seem to get on board on this. And with competition also comes progress...

For example Waymo (Google ex self driving car project) has driven already 4 million miles on the road and their safety record is exemplary.
It's able to learn and adapt and it's quite amazing what they have managed to achieve.

Bad weather is just another learning challenge which I'm sure that will be solved eventually. And keeping sensors clean is not something that driver aids need to think about necessarily, but something that self driving car manufacturers already do.

Here's an example of a manufacturer that demos self driving in heavy rain:

I remember following a course on AI/ML some time ago and they were showing how a fairly primitive path finding algorithm was able to successfully do a three point turn (well, multi point turn) without having been explicitly programmed the concept of doing so.

Skip to 55 seconds on

Lastly, when talking about self driving cars, there are different levels of autonomy

Taken from here: https://www.techrepublic.com/article...e-differences/

Level 0: This one is pretty basic. The driver (human) controls it all: steering, brakes, throttle, power. It's what you've been doing all along.

Level 1: This driver-assistance level means that most functions are still controlled by the driver, but a specific function (like steering or accelerating) can be done automatically by the car.

Level 2: In level 2, at least one driver assistance system of "both steering and acceleration/ deceleration using information about the driving environment" is automated, like cruise control and lane-centering. It means that the "driver is disengaged from physically operating the vehicle by having his or her hands off the steering wheel AND foot off pedal at the same time," according to the SAE. The driver must still always be ready to take control of the vehicle, however.

Level 3: Drivers are still necessary in level 3 cars, but are able to completely shift "safety-critical functions" to the vehicle, under certain traffic or environmental conditions. It means that the driver is still present and will intervene if necessary, but is not required to monitor the situation in the same way it does for the previous levels. Jim McBride, autonomous vehicles expert at Ford, said this is "the biggest demarcation is between Levels 3 and 4." He's focused on getting Ford straight to Level 4, since Level 3, which involves transferring control from car to human, can often pose difficulties. "We're not going to ask the driver to instantaneously intervene—that's not a fair proposition," McBride said.

Level 4: This is what is meant by "fully autonomous." Level 4 vehicles are "designed to perform all safety-critical driving functions and monitor roadway conditions for an entire trip." However, it's important to note that this is limited to the "operational design domain (ODD)" of the vehicle—meaning it does not cover every driving scenario.

Level 5: This refers to a fully-autonomous system that expects the vehicle's performance to equal that of a human driver, in every driving scenario—including extreme environments like dirt roads that are unlikely to be navigated by driverless vehicles in the near future.

Tesla's auto-pilot is a level 3 and it's doing pretty good.

Level 4 will be even better than that. Just imagine how many lives it can save, given that currently there are around 40k deaths in the US alone related to car crashes. The vast majority of them is due to driver error...

Even if Level 5 (which I think you're using for your definition of self driving cars) is a bit further out, I still think that everyone would benefit from having level 4 automation in the cars.

[RoundelM3]

Nonetheless, I prefer driving my own vehicle. The additional driver-aids are tolerable, but I'd never trust a self-driving car completely. Even on "autopilot", aircraft are still closely monitored by the pilots.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by roundel335

Even on "autopilot", aircraft are still closely monitored by the pilots.

And yet half of all aircraft crashes are the result of pilot error. Even those crashes which could be partially attributed to autopilot, like Asiana Airlines Flight 214 in San Francisco in 2013, the underlying fault is usually pilot error.

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by Livetodrive

We took a 2 hr. drive to Baltimore last weekend in the mild snowstorm. Ice and snow caked the collision sensor in the bumper, causing the adaptive cruise control to disengage with a dirty sensor warning. I cleaned it off at a rest stop, but that only helped for five minutes. There is no way to disengage only the "adaptive" portion of the cruise control. BMW, if you're listening, you may want to add a little heater on that sensor, and provide a means to engage only the regular cruise. Otherwise, the car, with the X-drive and only all-season RFTs behaved like a champ. Yesterday we used up our last free car wash coupon at the dealer to have the road salt washed off. They even sprayed the undercarriage for me.

All you need to know:

Finnish autonomous car goes for a leisurely cruise in the driving snow

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/finni...192829434.html

[Livetodrive]

Well, I re-read the FM, but there's nothing there about disengaging the active portion of the ACC. I then went out on the road and tried pushing and holding the distance to vehicle ahead button. It was a no-go. I would be happy to learn of any other ideas.
Stormlv, you hit on my point. The development of self-driving cars is a learning experience for the drivers and manufacturers. They continue to improve as they gain knowledge from the miles (or kilometers, in your case) put on the cars on the road.

[Livetodrive]

Originally Posted by roundel335

So what's it going to do in that situation? If a car is "self-driving", what's it going to do in bad weather when the car-to-car proximity sensors are compromised and the cameras are blinded? Is it going to tell the driver "we're not going anywhere in these unsafe conditions" or pull to the side of the road and refuse to move (assuming it can find the side of the road)? Bad weather - be it rain, snow, flooding, high winds, ice, etc. - brings up another challenge to the AI programmers. Is it going to be able to "sense" high water or a falling tree? The number of "cases" in the required logic becomes exponentially higher when you throw in less-than-optimal weather conditions.

If you think about it - what are the possibilities of creating a robot that would be capable of safely operating a car or other vehicle in any type of weather conditions? I'm not sure even Asimov thought that one through. I think there's a staggering amount of Artificial Intelligence R&D that will have to be completed before "autonomous" vehicles are fully accepted and certified safe. Even if they're just for package/cargo delivery with no passengers on board, will they be able to cope with unpredictable human behavior?

The only way autonomous vehicles will be safe is if they can communicate with all other vehicles on the road - whether or not they're autonomous or driven by a human. Either that, or they're going to have ti figure a way to miniaturize "Watson" to fit into the average car.

You're absolutely right, and in fact, Mercedes Benz has already rolled out Car-to- X Communication. Traffic can flow better and warnings can be sent of accidents or slowdowns up ahead. It needs to move from a single manufacturer to the entire industry to be fully effective.

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by Livetodrive

You're absolutely right, and in fact, Mercedes Benz has already rolled out Car-to- X Communication. Traffic can flow better and warnings can be sent of accidents or slowdowns up ahead. It needs to move from a single manufacturer to the entire industry to be fully effective.

The problem with this is the lag time with 4G. If you calculate the distance travelled even at 35 MPH just during the lag time, you will understand why it’s unworkable with 4G.

It is expected to become standard in the future with 5G when the lag time improves dramatically. Of course, Mobile 5G is several years away anyway.

[SSportWagon]

So .. you're saying if you dis-engage ACC with the button by your knee, it also deactivates CC ?

.. Im just asking because I don't drive the car often (its my wife's DD .. wish I got to drive it more).

I've played with the ACC and like it .. didn't think I would. My wife is pretty low-tech and mostly drives where either ACC or CC aren't needed.

Fascinating - gives me a reason to get some seat time tonight ! Thanks

[Livetodrive]

I'm not aware of any ACC buttons by the knee. They're on the steering wheel. As far as I know, there is no separate CC. It's only ACC. I do enjoy the ACC, especially in light traffic. In heavy slow traffic it's not as smooth as a regular driver. It speeds up too much when there is a gap, and starts braking only after the car in front slows down, whereas a real driver slows down when car further ahead engage their brake lights. I guess it's part of the learning curve for the car manufacturers.

[KosmoK]

Stormlv...........Great explanation and videos about self driving cars. I think you’re correct when you state that most people think of level five when they imagine a self driving car.

I’m old enough to remember when cruise control first came out. I thought “No way in hell am I gone to let some gizmo control the accelerator at 55 mph!” Today, I use cruise control all the time. I think it takes longer for people to accept new technology than it does to develop it.

When cars get to level five, the driver/passenger will be able to select what level they choose to use. At first, people will be sceptical about the technology and drive at level two or three. Over time, however, people will accept the technology and use level five. Of course, there will always be doubters and for them, they’ll use level one. To this day, my mother (85 years old) will not use cruise control.

[SSportWagon]

Originally Posted by SSportWagon

So .. you're saying if you dis-engage ACC with the button by your knee, it also deactivates CC ?

.. Im just asking because I don't drive the car often (its my wife's DD .. wish I got to drive it more).

I've played with the ACC and like it .. didn't think I would. My wife is pretty low-tech and mostly drives where either ACC or CC aren't needed.

Fascinating - gives me a reason to get some seat time tonight ! Thanks

So .. it was 51 deg. on Long Island last night - took the opportunity to give the SportWagon a good cleaning of its road salt and afterwards went for a spin -

- you were correct, none of the 3 buttons by the left knee had an effect. two I knew were lane change avoidance and blind spot awareness (dont know the proper names) but the one I was thinking of has a symbol similar to the ACC dash display but I think its for the emergency braking

That said, I also tried pressing and holding the distance buttons on the wheel with no joy.

[Speed-NYC]

Originally Posted by COKen

If you can figure out how to turn on regular cruise control if your car has ACC please let me know. I don't think it is possible.

Originally Posted by COKen

If you can figure out how to turn on regular cruise control if your car has ACC please let me know. I don't think it is possible.

Its the same button you use to turn on the ACC, mode button i think its called. So you toggle the mode until there is no vehicle icon in the CC display on the HUD.