12-02-2017, 04:08 PM | #1 |
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Performance SAVs - Comparison Charts
Featured on BIMMERPOST.com Last edited by Max Well; 03-07-2018 at 09:17 AM.. Reason: Updated Tables |
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12-06-2017, 07:03 AM | #2 |
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More data added to the spreadsheet, so I'm now just lacking the AMG Cds and a few qtr mile times. I have added a fourth chart - sorted on HP required to run constant speed at 140mph (I was interested to see which had the best aerodynamic designs). Not surprisingly the top leaders have some of the lowest Cds.
I still wonder if air suspension (like that of the Maserati Levante S) allows vehicles with a larger frontal A(rea) to have better Cds at highway speeds (c/w the X3 M40i, for example). And will BMW ever consider introducing such in its SAV line (which, by definition, will most always have higher Cds based on design requirements when c/w sedan counterparts)? It would seem this would mesh well with their 'EfficientDynamics' initiatives. |
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12-06-2017, 08:12 AM | #3 |
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What about the new Lamborghini Urus?
Weight: 4850 lbs Top speed of 190 mph (305 km/h) 0-100 km/h (60 mph) in 3.6 seconds 0-200 km/h (124 mph) in 12.8 seconds. 641 hp (478 kW) 4.0 L twin-turbo V8 Torque 850 Nm / 627 LB-FT Wheelbase (Inches) 118.22 Overall length (Inches) 201.25 Overall width (excluding mirrors) (Inches) 79.37 Overall height (Inches) 64.48 Track front/rear (Inches) 66.73/67.32 Ground clearance (Inches) 6.22/9.76 (adjustable via air suspension) |
12-06-2017, 10:56 AM | #4 | |
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12-06-2017, 12:25 PM | #5 | |
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12-07-2017, 01:53 PM | #6 |
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Wt/HP vs 0-60 times Plot
Gives a rough idea of 0-60 performance as Wt/HP ratio is lowered.
Last edited by Max Well; 12-21-2017 at 01:13 PM.. Reason: Updated graph |
12-08-2017, 09:28 AM | #7 |
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Aside from luxury and design which are inherent in most current gen models and/or come down to personal taste, performance and cargo/utility are important factors when choosing a Performance SAV. Price is a consideration but that is clearer to understand between the offerings. Fuel economy is relevant but at these HP ratings, combined mileage probably wouldn't sway one over another (unless hybrid/electric come into the equation).
It seemed a "Performance SAV Index" using Wt/HP multiplied by 0-60 time (to account for performance) then divided by cargo volume would yield a number which identifies maximum performance combined with cargo load (low number better). So I have now included that as a column along with cargo volume and provided sorts based on those as well. I also changed the X3M's est 0-60 times after reviewing the HP/Wt vs 0-60 time charts. |
12-10-2017, 08:34 AM | #8 |
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I also wanted a way to showcase Mnfrs' methods for improving aerodynamics. It is one thing to load a large platform with a huge HP engine and get great 0-60 times and good cargo room. Just as it is with making a(n) SAV more aerodynamic by removing cargo room. Both produce a good result for some areas but at a sacrifice to another category. But - the ability to combine performance, cargo, and aerodynamics really defines the ultimate for many purchasing in this SAV genre. So in addition to the P-SAVI, or 'Performance SAV Index' which analyzes performance and cargo vol, (with the formula 0-60 time x Wt/HP ratio divided by Cargo Vol), I've now added the P-SAVIE, or 'Performance SAV Index Enhanced' which now multiplies the P-SAVI by the Cd and the A. This allows improved separation between the larger and less aerodynamic performance SAVs.
One example - the Jaguar F-Pace S. It has good aerodynamics and a reasonable frontal area, low weight, and excellent cargo room. If Jaguar increases its HP from 380 to the upper 400s while keeping the other variables reasonably similar, it could prove a formidable competitor in this group. Likewise, Porsche and Mercedes already have the power options, but their cargo room ranks in the lowest which lowers their cumulative index. As witnessed by sales of the Macan not everyone cares about cargo volume, and a lot of other important variables come into the mix when buying a performance SAV (handling being key, interior design and infotainment, etc), but the charts can assist in highlighting some of the features each bring to the table. |
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12-20-2017, 12:40 PM | #10 |
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Nice work.
I think the Mercedes-AMG GLA45 would make a good addition. The Audi RS Q3 would also make sense if you are open to including vehicles not sold in North America. |
12-20-2017, 01:32 PM | #11 |
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Thanks for this!
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12-20-2017, 04:06 PM | #13 |
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Don't need drugs to to geek out here, especially going 0-60 in under 4 seconds behind the wheel of a whale. Being an enthusiast of high performance SAVs never looked better.
as a footnote to BMW: Look at the chart above. X3M deserves S58 with 500HP. Thank you.
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12-20-2017, 09:24 PM | #15 |
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The interesting thing about this graph is that if you draw the trend line, things above it probably have optimizations allowing it to perform better for having more lbs to lug per hp (friction, transmission/gearing, AWD, tires, launch control etc), those below must have something hindering them or they must be missing optimizations.
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12-21-2017, 09:28 AM | #17 |
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Max Well...AMAZING
Sincerely appreciate the time and effort; great reference doc. I just bought a new SQ5 over the X3 40i, primarily because of the air suspension, as the ride quality is far more compliant in "comfort" mode compared to the BMW. Overall performance wasn't as important to me, but the SQ5 still feels explosive, and probably 8/10th's of my M3 in accelerative force. My wife has a 2016 X3 28i, and we love it, but the Audi is just more luxurious, and that's exactly what I wanted for my daily. I digress... Thanks a million for putting this together and sharing!!!! |
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12-21-2017, 01:17 PM | #18 | ||||||
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LOL – wasn’t quite sure what you were referencing until Kozzi replied, then did a search for ‘what are IRs and XRs’. Surprising number of accurate hits came up.
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Most welcome, spuntyb. Would be nice to add all Performance/luxury SAVs, sbinshihon, but I had to draw a line somewhere, so chose to include those near the top of the Mnfrs’ Performance series - apologies. Quote:
Yeah, not sure my wife would agree… But seriously, this isn’t difficult to do – once the numbers are entered (and that is the only time-consuming part, trying to make sure accurate numbers are quoted), everything auto-calculates. And custom sorting literally takes 5 sec per category. Quote:
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12-21-2017, 02:59 PM | #20 |
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S58 is now being said to have 475 hp in the X3M. Not sure if that is with the Competition package or not though.
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12-21-2017, 05:11 PM | #21 | |
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Competition Package? Really? Feed us information!!!
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12-21-2017, 07:09 PM | #22 | |
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http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=22563352 So, as I said in that thread, 500hp for ZCP seems pretty realistic. If we assume the same ~4.5% increase the S55 gets w/ZCP ECU tune today, that would put the S58 w/ZCP tune @ ~496hp. It’s not much of a stretch to 500hp, but even if they don’t quite go that high, it’s almost sure to be 490hp+. |
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