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BMW 5-Series (G30) Forum iDrive, Audio, Bluetooth, Phone, Cameras, Electronics + Coding Bowers & Wilkins - Adding more Bass

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      11-27-2017, 01:38 PM   #1
nsa100
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Bowers & Wilkins - Adding more Bass

Having had my G31 for 2 months now with the Bowers & Wilkins audio system, in my opinion if definately needs a little more bass to balance out the mids and highs.

So I decided to add 2No 8" Subwoofers. I wanted to maintain the factory look so decided to install them under the floor in luggage area.

I knew before I started it would be difficult to find a subwoofer thin enough with enough power handling to fit under the floor. Basically you have about 95mm to play with which must accommodate the depth of the speaker and cabinet. Because I didn't want to get into fibre glassing I decided to make it out of mdf sheets which I got CNC cut to my ACAD design.

Initially I wanted the speaker enclosure to sit on top of the under floor carpet liner but having designed it fit the contours of the carpet it was still about 5mm too thick so I had to remove the liner.

I designed the cabinet for 2No RETRO Sound 8" Slim Subwoofers which were rated at 250 WRMS each. These would be driven by an Alpine PDR-M65 Amp which puts out around 450WRMS at 4 ohm. Having wired the speakers up and tested them they just cannot handle the power so I returned them.
I ended up buying 2No Kicker 8" CompRT Slim Subwoofers. I wired these at 2 ohms so the amp would deliver 650WRMS. I had to modify the enclosure by inserting MDF rings as the mounting diameter was smaller.

I installed an Audiocontrol LC2i to take the speaker level to phono level and then passed it through a MiniDSP to compensate for the enclosure roll off and more importantly the time alignment.

I am now blown away by the sound. There is not window rattling bass, but the system sounds more balanced now especially at higher volumes when the system bass gets rolled off.
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      11-27-2017, 01:41 PM   #2
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MiniDSP Settings.
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      11-28-2017, 01:38 AM   #3
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Very well done, nice!

In my previous 3series E90 I replaced the under seat subs with 2x 8" earthquakes 2ohms powered by an alpine amp + replaced all speakers with the alpine retro fit kit.
This was mindblowingly good!
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      11-28-2017, 03:11 AM   #4
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Many thanks!
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      11-28-2017, 06:50 PM   #5
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Looks very nice! Did you use the high levels that were originally for the under seat subs, or have you kept them connected and tapped off other speakers instead?
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      11-29-2017, 03:54 AM   #6
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I tapped into the High Level to the 2 Underseat Subwoofers, as I believe the other channels do not get any low frequencies from the factory amp.
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      11-30-2017, 10:25 AM   #7
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Thanks, I wasn't sure if the other speakers were full range. I'm quite interested in this as I have a boxed sub in my current car and I'm due to get a G30 in the next couple of months and I'm concerned the under seat subs won't go low enough for my liking. I'll wait and see what it's like when it arrives.
Did you consider replacing the underseat subs with some decent amplification (as BMW_sweden did) before doing your install?
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      11-30-2017, 11:15 AM   #8
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I already have the B&W system which in fairness is pretty good. I don't think any aftermarket speakers would be an improvement. I have the Bavsound subs in my M5 F10 for the Harmon Kardon System which are pretty good.

Anyway I played some test tones through the existing B&W system and they do go all they way down to around 25-30 Hz. The problem is the top end frequencies are quite a 'bright and forward' and when the Bass gets rolled off (limited) at around 75-80% volume, you need some reinforcement in the bass......for my tastes anyway.

I did find the B&O in my F11 was better in that regard.
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      12-01-2017, 07:48 PM   #9
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This is great. I have a 12” Alpine SWR-T12 in a 24”x5”x15” box from my old car, it seems almost made to fit in the under floor compartment of my G01. I just need to figure out where to put the PDX-M6 amp.

Do you mind sharing how you figured out which wires to tap into? Did you just trace those under seat sub wires, or do you know the color codes? I was assuming there would some sort of crossover built in as well, and that you’d probably only have the choice between a prefiltered low pass signal or a high pass signal.

I really love how the battery is just right there on BMWs.
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      12-01-2017, 10:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sor View Post
This is great. I have a 12” Alpine SWR-T12 in a 24”x5”x15” box from my old car, it seems almost made to fit in the under floor compartment of my G01. I just need to figure out where to put the PDX-M6 amp.

Do you mind sharing how you figured out which wires to tap into? Did you just trace those under seat sub wires, or do you know the color codes? I was assuming there would some sort of crossover built in as well, and that you’d probably only have the choice between a prefiltered low pass signal or a high pass signal.

I really love how the battery is just right there on BMWs.

Honestly I used the same method as I used when I added a Subwoofer in my F10, using this very helpful guide.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=531940

The wires are exactly the same colour, just make sure you tap into the THICK Twisted Pairs.

(Black Thick Twisted Pair of Wires - Left Underseat Subwoofer)
(Blue Thick Twisted Pair of Wires - Right Underseat Subwoofer)

I haven't checked, but I am sure you will have to tap into the Underseat Subwoofer wires, as there will be no LOW frequencies passing through to the other speakers.
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      12-02-2017, 12:04 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsa100 View Post
Honestly I used the same method as I used when I added a Subwoofer in my F10, using this very helpful guide.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=531940

The wires are exactly the same colour, just make sure you tap into the THICK Twisted Pairs.

(Black Thick Twisted Pair of Wires - Left Underseat Subwoofer)
(Blue Thick Twisted Pair of Wires - Right Underseat Subwoofer)

I haven't checked, but I am sure you will have to tap into the Underseat Subwoofer wires, as there will be no LOW frequencies passing through to the other speakers.
Thanks for the tip. I’m sure it’s fine but it bugs me a little that there’s not much control over or understanding of the crossover frequency and slope for the signal being tapped into. It’s likely higher than I’d set the extra sub to anyway though.

Your box turned out great.
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      12-02-2017, 04:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sor View Post
Thanks for the tip. I’m sure it’s fine but it bugs me a little that there’s not much control over or understanding of the crossover frequency and slope for the signal being tapped into. It’s likely higher than I’d set the extra sub to anyway though.

Your box turned out great.
I have played some test tones and the signal to the Underseat Subs goes all the way down to 20Hz. The problem is the volume to the Underseat Subs gets rolled off after about 75% volume. The Audiocontrol LC2i can add this back in.

The DSP also helps a lot to tune the system. This can make night and day difference.

Of course some amplifiers also have some parametric functions, but are quite limited.

I used to have the Alpine MRD-M501 which when combined the RUX-4280 was brilliant at getting the subs tuned in because it had volume control, phase control, time alignment and a very good parametric equalizer all in one that you control from the driving seat,; which could be mounted in a small cubby hole!
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      02-24-2018, 07:13 AM   #13
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This is amazing, not sure how I missed this!

I have my old sub/amp from my F10 just sitting in my garage and at least want to see how it sounds in my G30. I was happy with it in the F10. This is just the motivation I need to wire it up, its always easy with BMW's with the boot mounted battery & factory amp.

Which wire did you tap for amp remote switch on?
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      02-24-2018, 11:53 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilejo View Post
This is amazing, not sure how I missed this!

I have my old sub/amp from my F10 just sitting in my garage and at least want to see how it sounds in my G30. I was happy with it in the F10. This is just the motivation I need to wire it up, its always easy with BMW's with the boot mounted battery & factory amp.

Which wire did you tap for amp remote switch on?
I am not sure if it was part of an option I chose (extra power outlet) but I tapped off the back of the 12V supply to the extra power outlet (cigarette lighter) in the luggage area. This comes on and off with the ignition.

From memory it may stay live for a few minutes after turning the ignition off, but not enough to drain the battery.

There maybe other places to tap off, but this was the easiest to find without going through all the other wires behind the fuses.

It was also quite tight to fix the main 12v power lead to the top the battery as it is well shielded with the red plastic cover, but I did use a very heavy gauge wire rated at 1500w.
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      02-24-2018, 04:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsa100 View Post
I am not sure if it was part of an option I chose (extra power outlet) but I tapped off the back of the 12V supply to the extra power outlet (cigarette lighter) in the luggage area. This comes on and off with the ignition.

From memory it may stay live for a few minutes after turning the ignition off, but not enough to drain the battery.

There maybe other places to tap off, but this was the easiest to find without going through all the other wires behind the fuses.

It was also quite tight to fix the main 12v power lead to the top the battery as it is well shielded with the red plastic cover, but I did use a very heavy gauge wire rated at 1500w.
Thanks I've got the extra power outlet in the boot too so will also use that. Makes life a lot easier!
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      03-22-2018, 04:51 PM   #16
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Just seen this - very impressive stealth install.

You mention that the B&W is a bit forward/aggressive in the mid and treble. Have you tried Bavsound or other aftermarket mids and tweeters ? (You mention you had Bavsound subs in the M5, did you have Bavsound mids and tweets in there as well ?)

I have the HK and have swapped the mids and tweets to Bavsound. Equaliser is set completely flat apart from +1 on the bass, and the sound is very balanced. No harshness at all, until you crank it to the point where the HK amp is struggling...
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      03-23-2018, 04:31 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morellomax View Post
Just seen this - very impressive stealth install.

You mention that the B&W is a bit forward/aggressive in the mid and treble. Have you tried Bavsound or other aftermarket mids and tweeters ? (You mention you had Bavsound subs in the M5, did you have Bavsound mids and tweets in there as well ?)

I have the HK and have swapped the mids and tweets to Bavsound. Equaliser is set completely flat apart from +1 on the bass, and the sound is very balanced. No harshness at all, until you crank it to the point where the HK amp is struggling...

Yes I had/have the Bavsound Ghost subs installed in the F10 M5. I have all Bavsound speakers sat in their original boxes. I feel the HK system in my wife's G30 is pretty close to the Bavsound I had in the F10 M5.

I am debating if I should sell them or install them in the G30.

Also I could not bring myself to rip out the £3.5K B&W speakers in my G31 and replace them with the Bavsound. I am not even sure they are the correct impedance for the B&W system.
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      03-26-2018, 10:36 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsa100 View Post
I am debating if I should sell them or install them in the G30.
Rear shelf ones are a 2 minute job like on the F10, but it's a PITA to get a plastic tool under the speaker surround to get started.

Rear door ones are a complete no-go, there isn't enough space in the G30 for the F10 units.

Front doors are doable but a bit of a pain, you have to mate rearwards to the metal door skin rather than forwards to the door card, but well within your capability judging by your sub installation !

Centre dash is easy.... once you've removed the frigging idrive screen and half the dash to get the grille cover off.

Not sure I'd bother if starting again

EDIT: no, I would do it again, but would try to find a neat way to disconnect the feed to the rear door speakers without opening the doors up. The Bavsound mids and tweets are still significantly better sounding than the HK ones, whether in the F10 or in the G30.

Last edited by morellomax; 03-26-2018 at 10:42 AM..
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      12-05-2018, 04:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsa100 View Post
MiniDSP Settings.
Hi there!

Could you please share your B&W equaliser setup please for me to start with?

Cheers!
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      12-05-2018, 09:54 AM   #20
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I set the B&W pretty much flat and give the 10Khz 1-2 steps higher, if the song has been well recorded

It all depends on the song and recording. I personally don't think there is a default Equalizer setting that sounds good on ALL songs, but a Flat curve is good 80% of the time. I am always tweaking this and the Bass/Treble settings from song to song if I have the volume cranked up.

Because of this I have the Tone Settings programmed into a shortcut button (1-7).

I have programmed No 3 short cut button for this
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      12-07-2018, 02:39 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsa100 View Post
I set the B&W pretty much flat and give the 10Khz 1-2 steps higher, if the song has been well recorded

It all depends on the song and recording. I personally don't think there is a default Equalizer setting that sounds good on ALL songs, but a Flat curve is good 80% of the time. I am always tweaking this and the Bass/Treble settings from song to song if I have the volume cranked up.

Because of this I have the Tone Settings programmed into a shortcut button (1-7).

I have programmed No 3 short cut button for this
I do agree you have to adjust equalizer from time to time (and find it pretty disturbing), but your idea with presets is great! is it really achievable? I will try it today!
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      12-07-2018, 07:52 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antah View Post
I do agree you have to adjust equalizer from time to time (and find it pretty disturbing), but your idea with presets is great! is it really achievable? I will try it today!
To be clear, the saved preset will bring up the EQ adjustment band screen, not individual settings. Adjusting the EQ based on the media being played is not that unusual when dealing with multiple inputs and various degrees of music resolution (FM, XM, MP3, FLAC).
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