[mecheng77]

Hello, I am looking for a summer car and I want a E90 - 328 RWD.
Coming from owning a Volvo, I am comfortable doing DIY work, my T5 needed a lot of work when I bought it but the Engine and Trans were strong and its proven to be a good approach: buy something that only needs DIY friendly work done on it. I love my car, it has zero rust and was driven every winter but I want something that is equally fast but handles better.
FWIW: I used to be loyal to Honda's until I discovered how they rust when exposed to Salt, now I've converted to European cars: slightly less reliable but they get the important things right like rust resistance and good engines and transmissions! That never gets mentioned in CR!.

After researching the E90 , I feel that I am capable of doing the DIY: valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket, window regulators, A/C evaporator.

My only worry is buying a car where the previous owner may have overheated the car due to a faulty thermostat or water pump.

a) From what I understand the water pump can fail without warning, is this true?

b) Some sellers have indicated they got a fault for a bad thermostat and then replaced both at the same time. Does the thermostat fail safe like it did in my Volvo?

c) Should I only look for cars that have not had a faulty water pump therefore I know it would have never overheated?

d) Is the water pump less likely to fail on Cdn cars because it is colder up here and the pump was affected by heat in the electronics?

I just don't want to buy a car that has overheated and has a warped head. Even one overheat, the car from my experience is never the same.
What would your advice be when buying?

PS: The 325 2006 engines burn oil from what I understand, is this correct?

Thanks in advance!

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Hello, I am looking for a summer car and I want a E90 - 328 RWD.
Coming from owning a Volvo, I am comfortable doing DIY work, my T5 needed a lot of work when I bought it but the Engine and Trans were strong and its proven to be a good approach: buy something that only needs DIY friendly work done on it. I love my car, it has zero rust and was driven every winter but I want something that is equally fast but handles better.
FWIW: I used to be loyal to Honda's until I discovered how they rust when exposed to Salt, now I've converted to European cars: slightly less reliable but they get the important things right like rust resistance and good engines and transmissions! That never gets mentioned in CR!.

After researching the E90 , I feel that I am capable of doing the DIY: valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket, window regulators, A/C evaporator.

My only worry is buying a car where the previous owner may have overheated the car due to a faulty thermostat or water pump.

a) From what I understand the water pump can fail without warning, is this true?

b) Some sellers have indicated they got a fault for a bad thermostat and then replaced both at the same time. Does the thermostat fail safe like it did in my Volvo?

c) Should I only look for cars that have not had a faulty water pump therefore I know it would have never overheated?

d) Is the water pump less likely to fail on Cdn cars because it is colder up here and the pump was affected by heat in the electronics?

I just don't want to buy a car that has overheated and has a warped head. Even one overheat, the car from my experience is never the same.
What would your advice be when buying?

PS: The 325 2006 engines burn oil from what I understand, is this correct?

Thanks in advance!

I think you've come to the right place. It is extremely difficult to warp the head or blow the head gasket on the E90 engines. This used to be a bigger issue with the E46 model engines.

The E90 engines (N52 and N55/54) are designed to run at higher temperatures than most engines and as such are designed with what I would call a bit of "overhead" - pun intended.

There are lots of times where owners post that they have repeatedly 'overheated' their cars with no long issues whatsoever. I put 'overheated' in quotation marks because the car goes into limp mode and shuts itself down when it detects elevated temperature levels.

Overheating is of very little concern.

With regards to 2006s using more oil - I've not heard of that.

The only thing you really need to know is that the head on 2009+ cars was redesigned to get rid of the common lifter tick issue. This issue gives the engine a ticking noise that is caused by the hydraulic lifters. It is, however, just a noise and does not cause any damage. 06-08 engines tend to exhibit this issue more often.

Often times this is a result of owners running their cars for extended lengths at low rpms or if the oil is never allowed to fully warm. In short, the N52 likes to be used.

Also, rust corrosion for the E90 Chassis is superior to the BMW models before it, so you should have even less of an issue.

Should be a great replacement for your volvo.

[6ixSpd]

When the WP fails, the car gives you ample warning and will let you limp it off the road to an extent before a secondary warning tells you to shut it off immediately.

The cost for a replacement WP/Tstat (parts and labor) is minimal compared to the purchase of the car, and I would never let that stop me from buying another RWD E90 328i.

FWIW, I have 233k km/145k miles on my 328i. It's still going strong on the original WP/Tstat, I have a replacement kit sitting in the garage since December 2016 just waiting until the stock one fails.

The N52 RWD 3 series BMWs are fantastic cars to own and drive. They're relatively cheap to maintain as well, by far the cheapest of any BMW I've owned going back to my 1996 328i. Get one and you'll love it.

[Eddien123]

Don?t even worry about the overheating issue. These cars will prevent themselves from getting that hot long before they ever would.

I suggest an 07-08. 328 has more power than the 325 and it is newer.

(Knocking on wood) I have found my 328 to be more reliable after 60,000 than it was before. The only major issue I?ve had after 60-70k miles was the valve cover gasket. I detect a bit of oil leaking I assume it is the oil filter housing gasket. Not too hard of a diy. The 328 rwd is a great, balanced car. I can have a lot of fun but also get over 30MPG.

Oh and to answer your question, no the water pumps have shit plastic pieces inside that break. No matter what climate you are in, these water pumps run. These engines run fairly hot. If you buy an N52 engine car and it has not failed yet, I would just have the money aside for if it does. Most people experience some sort of issue with it at some point. Good luck.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

When the WP fails, the car gives you ample warning and will let you limp it off the road to an extent before a secondary warning tells you to shut it off immediately.

The cost for a replacement WP/Tstat (parts and labor) is minimal compared to the purchase of the car, and I would never let that stop me from buying another RWD E90 328i.

FWIW, I have 233k km/145k miles on my 328i. It's still going strong on the original WP/Tstat, I have a replacement kit sitting in the garage since December 2016 just waiting until the stock one fails.

The N52 RWD 3 series BMWs are fantastic cars to own and drive. They're relatively cheap to maintain as well, by far the cheapest of any BMW I've owned going back to my 1996 328i. Get one and you'll love it.

Absolutely, agree. 328i one of the best value buys of the modern-ish BMW line-up. I'd also lump the 2011 528i and X3 into that group as the both have the N52, but with better transmissions. Neither of those handle as well as the 328i, however.

[mecheng77]

Thank you for the great responses, it shows how strong the enthusiast community is here.

I'm surprised how well the engine can tolerate high temperatures. Even though my T5 is aluminum, they don't take well to overheat incidents which is why I changed the rubber coolant hoses feeding the turbos as soon as I bought it; it has put many cars in the graveyard with warped heads.

In limp mode does it shut off power to the cylinders in an alternating fashion? My saying in life to cope with dealing with your average dimwit "most people are one step away from drooling all over themselves" I wonder how many people completely ignore those warnings. Does the limp mode seriously reduce power and therefore is impossible to ignore?

In the same vane, if your average Joe does not use 91 Octane, does it harm this particular car? I know the computer adjusts, but on my T5 continuous use of low octane causes burnt valves.

I noticed a huge amount of 323i for sale in my area, I don't think they were available in the US. From 2007 and on they had 201 Hp according to this site; that would be adequate for me. Question: are they equally as reliable, or do they suffer from the same oil burning issues as the 2006 325i which has 215 Hp. Not sure if they use the same rings? I will try to buy a 328i but the selection is small compared to the 323i.

http://bmwserieshistory.blogspot.ca/...es-e90_26.html

You can get the 323i with the rear seats that fold as an option correct and the 328i came standard with it?

Can you get the 328i without a sunroof or is it standard? I don't like sunroofs if I can avoid them. I never use mine, it is more of a long term hassle for potential leaks and corrosion.

Was their a sport option available?

Is the A/C evaporator problematic in these cars?

Thanks again, great to see an enthusiast community.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

...

Does the limp mode seriously reduce power and therefore is impossible to ignore?

In the same vane, if your average Joe does not use 91 Octane, does it harm this particular car? I know the computer adjusts, but on my T5 continuous use of low octane causes burnt valves.
...
Can you get the 328i without a sunroof or is it standard?
...
Was their a sport option available?
...
Is the A/C evaporator problematic in these cars?

Seriously reduces power. It's not the water pump or thermostat that kills these, it's loss-of-coolant, which is fairly rare nowadays.

(Vein, not vane, btw.) Many people use regular or mid-grade; no problems but it's stupid. Search for "Top Tier".

Sunroofs are mostly standard (a couple instances/years you could delete.)

Sport/MSport available, except on xDrive.

Evaporators haven't been a problem, but are hell to change if they do break.

[6ixSpd]

The 328 is simply a far better car than the 323i for barely a bit more $ on the used market nowadays. They come with MUCH more features as standard (power/memory/heated seats being the biggest one) and usually have bi-xenon headlights whereas the 323i only comes with halogens, not to mention more power and torque. Such things make for a good daily driver and are easily worth the little extra cost of purchasing, in my opinion...

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

The 328 is simply a far better car than the 323i for barely a bit more $ on the used market nowadays. They come with MUCH more features as standard (power/memory/heated seats being the biggest one) and usually have bi-xenon headlights whereas the 323i only comes with halogens, not to mention more power and torque. Such things make for a good daily driver and are easily worth the little extra cost of purchasing, in my opinion...

How do the bi-xenon headlights fare? I heard they are super bright, but do they hold up same for the ballast? Is it a dealer only item?

[6ixSpd]

I have over 230k KM on mine. Everything is original except the bulbs which I replaced with new ones as I noticed they weren't as bright as they should be. Ballasts can fail but there are quality aftermarket replacements as well. I wouldn't even consider it a maintenance item.

[BravoJohny33]

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

The 328 is simply a far better car than the 323i for barely a bit more $ on the used market nowadays. They come with MUCH more features as standard (power/memory/heated seats being the biggest one) and usually have bi-xenon headlights whereas the 323i only comes with halogens, not to mention more power and torque. Such things make for a good daily driver and are easily worth the little extra cost of purchasing, in my opinion...

I have a 328i sport and I have none of those options standard.

[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by BravoJohny33

I have a 328i sport and I have none of those options standard.

Canadian market cars come with some things standard vs. US and vice versa. There are some differences.

Moreover, in the used car market in Southern Ontario (where OP and I are located) it's better to just get a 328 as 99% of the time they're much better equipped and barely cost more than a comparable year a mileage 323 over here.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

Canadian market cars come with some things standard vs. US and vice versa. There are some differences.

Moreover, in the used car market in Southern Ontario (where OP and I are located) it's better to just get a 328 as 99% of the time they're much better equipped and barely cost more than a comparable year a mileage 323 over here.

You are right, but there is a tonne of 323i to choose from, sometimes they are optioned decently. Not sure about the 2.5L engine though.

[avin83]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

You are right, but there is a tonne of 323i to choose from, sometimes they are optioned decently. Not sure about the 2.5L engine though.

I have had a 2006 323i for almost 2 years - 174hp and zf tranny (2007+ e90 323/328i has gm tranny).

My car had only premium package (sunroof, dimmed back mirror, cruise control and heated seat) - no folding seat... which is an option for 323i

Interestingly the waterpump/thermostat were busted and replaced during the owner transfer period - not sure whether the unfortunate overheated event damaged the engine, but I have drove it for 25000km (127000km now) for 2 years... fine so far.

323i has N52 2.5L engine which I think isn't that different than 328i's N52 3.0L engine in terms of reliability. My engine burns 1L oil every 2000km but other than that it drives well. PPI is very important.

Overall, 323i is a good daily car in GTA area. but if I were to buy an e90 again, I would definitely get an 328i.

Hope this helps.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by tlow98

I think you've come to the right place. It is extremely difficult to warp the head or blow the head gasket on the E90 engines. This used to be a bigger issue with the E46 model engines.

The E90 engines (N52 and N55/54) are designed to run at higher temperatures than most engines and as such are designed with what I would call a bit of "overhead" - pun intended.

There are lots of times where owners post that they have repeatedly 'overheated' their cars with no long issues whatsoever. I put 'overheated' in quotation marks because the car goes into limp mode and shuts itself down when it detects elevated temperature levels.

I wish people would stop saying this - your engine will NOT SHUT OFF from overeating. Maybe you can stall it (because of the reduced power), but at no point does the DME purposefully turn off the engine because it'stoo hot. It does however, reduce engine power (based on oil/coolant temp) in order to protect the engine.

And yes, it's very hard to really damage them from overheating. FWIW, I limped our old car about 20 miles home with a dead waterpump - I figured I'd have to stop a bunch of times to let it cool off, but I didn't really. The temperature actually stabilized at about 135c (20c higher than the max operating temp of the engine - so not really that much hotter in reality). Again, it DOES NOT shut off the engine.. It only reduces power.

I replaced the pump, and put like 30,000 miles on it without issue. Maybe the magnesium block helps it cool off better without any pump, and of course the fan was blowing full speed too. This was in the winter though so I would caution against trying that on a hot summer day. I just thought it was interesting that it never got any hotter even with the pump not working at all.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

I wish people would stop saying this - your engine will NOT SHUT OFF from overeating. Maybe you can stall it (because of the reduced power), but at no point does the DME purposefully turn off the engine because it'stoo hot. It does however, reduce engine power (based on oil/coolant temp) in order to protect the engine.

And yes, it's very hard to really damage them from overheating. FWIW, I limped our old car about 20 miles home with a dead waterpump - I figured I'd have to stop a bunch of times to let it cool off, but I didn't really. The temperature actually stabilized at about 135c (20c higher than the max operating temp of the engine - so not really that much hotter in reality). Again, it DOES NOT shut off the engine.. It only reduces power.

I replaced the pump, and put like 30,000 miles on it without issue. Maybe the magnesium block helps it cool off better without any pump, and of course the fan was blowing full speed too. This was in the winter though so I would caution against trying that on a hot summer day. I just thought it was interesting that it never got any hotter even with the pump not working at all.

Did not know! Appreciate the info, Hass. After all my reading, somehow missed that nugget.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

I wish people would stop saying this - your engine will NOT SHUT OFF from overeating. Maybe you can stall it (because of the reduced power), but at no point does the DME purposefully turn off the engine because it'stoo hot. It does however, reduce engine power (based on oil/coolant temp) in order to protect the engine.

And yes, it's very hard to really damage them from overheating. FWIW, I limped our old car about 20 miles home with a dead waterpump - I figured I'd have to stop a bunch of times to let it cool off, but I didn't really. The temperature actually stabilized at about 135c (20c higher than the max operating temp of the engine - so not really that much hotter in reality). Again, it DOES NOT shut off the engine.. It only reduces power.

I replaced the pump, and put like 30,000 miles on it without issue. Maybe the magnesium block helps it cool off better without any pump, and of course the fan was blowing full speed too. This was in the winter though so I would caution against trying that on a hot summer day. I just thought it was interesting that it never got any hotter even with the pump not working at all.

Wow, only 20C more. I suspect maybe the water pump doesn't fail completely and it may be intermittent or operate at a lower speed.

If not, these cars have phenomenal cooling jackets to handle the conduction and high powered fans to handle the convection heat transfer. And/or they knew it could fail and designed a very effective limp mode.

[hassmaschine]

I think I posted the coolant/oil/power reduction map somewhere a while back - IIRC it goes way higher than my engine actually got to with the dead pump.

[6ixSpd]

For what it's worth, a friend of mine who owns a BMW repair shop regularly sees N52 powered cars coming in with dead water pumps and the associated check engine lights. Interestingly, the X3 doesn't show the two stage warnings for a failed WP like the E90s, it's just a normal CEL/SES light! The fan is always blowing full speed, but these people routinely drive 30ish minutes to bring their dead WP cars in and there are never any issues.

That cooling fan when running at full tilt is crazy for the little N52. I'm sure there's more to why the motor doesn't begin to overheat as one would expect, but it's pretty remarkable that average car owners just drive these things in with dead water pumps all the time with no repercussions.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

For what it's worth, a friend of mine who owns a BMW repair shop regularly sees N52 powered cars coming in with dead water pumps and the associated check engine lights. Interestingly, the X3 doesn't show the two stage warnings for a failed WP like the E90s, it's just a normal CEL/SES light! The fan is always blowing full speed, but these people routinely drive 30ish minutes to bring their dead WP cars in and there are never any issues.

That cooling fan when running at full tilt is crazy for the little N52. I'm sure there's more to why the motor doesn't begin to overheat as one would expect, but it's pretty remarkable that average car owners just drive these things in with dead water pumps all the time with no repercussions.

Unbelievable. This is the first car I've heard that drive such distances with no damage.

[6ixSpd]

Yeah I still have trouble wrapping my head around that. Not that it's ideal, nor am I advocating people keep driving on dead WPs, but it's a huge comfort knowing the car won't leave you stranded.

[R608]

OP - I think passing on a car due to a past WP failure and replacement is probably overreacting. I had the WP fail on my '06 at just 50K miles (2nd one too, I believe) with no ill effect, though admittedly I was in a place where I could safely stop.

Not aware of the oil burning issue you mentioned. My '06 had some oil leaks which seem to be common but neither it nor my current 328i have typically required the addition of oil between oil changes which I do about every 6 months.

If you're concerned, I think the best thing to do would be to look for a car owned by an enthusiast who has kept good records and stayed up on repairs and maintenance. Have a shop that knows BMWs well do a pre-purchase inspection for you. Is there a Canadian counterpart to BMWCCA?