[englishguy84]

My parents want to buy a new 3 and are concerned about reliability. Over and above the extended warranty, I thought that, since they don't care about power, they might be fine with the 320i since it has the more proven (and timing chain corrected) N20. Is that right? The 320i doesn't get the B48 until the G20 generation and is getting leftover N20s for MY 2017 and 2018 of F30?

[SteveinArizona]

I just had a 2017 320i loaner from my dealer and it was an N20. For whatever its worth, my 330e has the B48 engine and it seems to run much smoother. The 320 started very roughly.

[englishguy84]

How was acceleration? My parents aren't driving at WOT but they both enjoy driving. Does the motor run out of breath above 60 mph?

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by englishguy84

How was acceleration? My parents aren't driving at WOT but they both enjoy driving. Does the motor run out of breath above 60 mph?

It's not exactly built for fast highway passing, if that's what you mean, but the loaners I've had were fine for spirited driving up to around 80mph. I'm not sure what it's 30-50 times are off the top of my head, but they won't have a problem unless they're used to driving performance cars. It's generally pretty nimble and fun to drive around town and on the twisties fwiw.

As for reliability, I can't say with certainty. Most of the niggling issues with the N20 have been ironed out at this point, and there's no reason it won't last 100k. I'm sure the B48 will have similar reliability, if not better, but it's still only a few years old, so only time will tell.

[englishguy84]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

It's not exactly built for fast highway passing, if that's what you mean, but the loaners I've had were fine for spirited driving up to around 80mph. I'm not sure what it's 30-50 times are off the top of my head, but they won't have a problem unless they're used to driving performance cars. It's generally pretty nimble and fun to drive around town and on the twisties fwiw.

As for reliability, I can't say with certainty. Most of the niggling issues with the N20 have been ironed out at this point, and there's no reason it won't last 100k. I'm sure the B48 will have similar reliability, if not better, but it's still only a few years old, so only time will tell.

Their concern (which I understand) is that buying a motor before there's medium or long term info out, with the plan to drive it up to 100k or so (versus the many who lease) is taking on additional risk beyond the risk of buying any luxury German. I think the timing chain in the back/VANOS in the back stuff gave my dad pause in particular.

They used to have a Mercedes C220 that got passed down to me; it made 141 hp and my mom would routinely take it up to 90 and cruise there happily, haha. I think that car weighed more than the 320i, too, which is why I figured they might not miss the 248 hp in the -30i.

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by englishguy84

Their concern (which I understand) is that buying a motor before there's medium or long term info out, with the plan to drive it up to 100k or so (versus the many who lease) is taking on additional risk beyond the risk of buying any luxury German. I think the timing chain in the back/VANOS in the back stuff gave my dad pause in particular.

They used to have a Mercedes C220 that got passed down to me; it made 141 hp and my mom would routinely take it up to 90 and cruise there happily, haha. I think that car weighed more than the 320i, too, which is why I figured they might not miss the 248 hp in the -30i.

This motor is based on the b58 closed deck design with 2 fewer cylinders, so it should be more durable than the N55 derived N20. I think the timing chain is in the front of the engine as well and it has a mechanical water pump vs electric which should be more reliable. I believe it's not made out of plastic like the old water pumps. That being said, I'm not sure if the 320i is receiving the new engine or just the 330i as power figures didn't change for the base model, did it? Does it have faster 0-60 than the previous model or still the same? I drove one as a loaner and power was okay but nothing like my 340i. It only had sport mode, no sport plus but I do like updated I drive.

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by englishguy84

Their concern (which I understand) is that buying a motor before there's medium or long term info out, with the plan to drive it up to 100k or so (versus the many who lease) is taking on additional risk beyond the risk of buying any luxury German. I think the timing chain in the back/VANOS in the back stuff gave my dad pause in particular.

They used to have a Mercedes C220 that got passed down to me; it made 141 hp and my mom would routinely take it up to 90 and cruise there happily, haha. I think that car weighed more than the 320i, too, which is why I figured they might not miss the 248 hp in the -30i.

A 320i honestly sounds perfect for them then, particularly if you're finding good deals on 2016s and 2017s. Best of luck!

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

A 320i honestly sounds perfect for them then, particularly if you're finding good deals on 2016s and 2017s. Best of luck!

You can probably get a new one for about $31k based on the msrp with no options. You can get some deals on CPO 320 and 328.

[jmull3r]

if they are concerned with long time reliability they should jump over to the Lexus IS200t, that will last them a long time

[STR8-6IX]

I would probably go for the B48. I dont think the timing chain issues on the N20 have been resolved.

my two cents.. if you aren't looking into the 328/330i, I really dont think the 320i is a good choice at all. its not fast and while subjectively the F30 does handle well, theres really not much steering or chassis feel left compared to the older BMW's.

a low mileage, clean LCI (2009+) e90 328i would be quicker, more refined, more reliable (inline 6) and handle beautifully.

if your parents need a new car, honestly I would look into a Mazda 6. its very well built and barely slower then a 320i while providing chassis/steering feel, handling enjoyment that even BMW themselves do not offer any longer. its also got more features for a fraction of the 320i's cost.

just something to consider. also, the 2011 528i (naturally aspirated inline 6) can be picked up for dirt cheap these days.

[englishguy84]

Thanks for the replies, keep them coming! I will suggest looking into CPO or the Lexus. I think they want compact luxury and there's definitely a little bit of "always wanted a BMW," but they're remembering how our family friends' E39 528i drove.

Re: N20 timing chain--can anyone elaborate on this still being unresolved? My impression was that there were improvements made in 2015 to the engine and the issues are with earlier years. Do we have any indication that the design and materials of the B engine addresses these? If so, they would probably be happy with a 330i

[SteveinArizona]

I didn't do a lot of high speed driving in my 320i loaner so I can't really comment but I am sure that you can cruise just fine at any speed that will not involve a chase by law enforcement. The only issue might be, and I did not have a chance to test this, would he passing when driving at high speeds...what kind of torque and acceleration will you have if you have to quickly move from 60 mph to 80 mph when passing? I don't have a clue as to the answer.

[Gamb1t]

Originally Posted by STR8-6IX

.....
if your parents need a new car, honestly I would look into a Mazda 6. its very well built and barely slower then a 320i while providing chassis/steering feel, handling enjoyment that even BMW themselves do not offer any longer. its also got more features for a fraction of the 320i's cost.

.....

THIS.

But to OP's question, i would vote for the updated B48 engine.

[x5mad]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

I didn't do a lot of high speed driving in my 320i loaner so I can't really comment but I am sure that you can cruise just fine at any speed that will not involve a chase by law enforcement. The only issue might be, and I did not have a chance to test this, would he passing when driving at high speeds...what kind of torque and acceleration will you have if you have to quickly move from 60 mph to 80 mph when passing? I don't have a clue as to the answer.

I had a 320i loaner a while back and can say that I was not very confident with high speed overtaking. Car felt very underpowered.

[motorwerkeman]

I would probably go for the B48. I dont think the timing chain issues on the N20 have been resolved.

Let's look at facts - parts relevant to the failure were revised 01/2015.

Show me a timing chain failure on a car with an N20 from 01/2015 and newer. I have not come across any cases so far (and I have searched extensively) which tells me the revised chain solves the problem. LCI N20 car or B48 is the way to go.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

A 320i honestly sounds perfect for them then, particularly if you're finding good deals on 2016s and 2017s. Best of luck!

+1!! Absolutely agreed! The 320i does have the N20. The motor has proved quite reliable. I'm a big fan of the 320i. It is a hoot to drive. Pop the gear lever left into Sport and it will accelerate from 30 - 40 up to 85 - 95 very rapidly. Passing and leaving traffic behind is not a problem. Since the LCI the 320i is well equipped and the interior is nicely trimmed.

Originally Posted by jmull3r

if they are concerned with long time reliability they should jump over to the Lexus IS200t, that will last them a long time

Ugh!

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by x5mad

I had a 320i loaner a while back and can say that I was not very confident with high speed overtaking. Car felt very underpowered.

You must not have been driving it right. The 320i has no problem accelerating rapidly for passing. I've driven at least a half a dozen of them.

[englishguy84]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

+1!! Absolutely agreed! The 320i does have the N20. The motor has proved quite reliable. I'm a big fan of the 320i. It is a hoot to drive. Pop the gear lever left into Sport and it will accelerate from 30 - 40 up to 85 - 95 very rapidly. Passing and leaving traffic behind is not a problem. Since the LCI the 320i is well equipped and the interior is nicely trimmed.



Ugh!

I test drove the Lexus before I pulled the trigger on a 230i. Not worth it to me—why have a car that lasts for 15 years that I don't even enjoy owning? At this price range, that's the point.

Ttureraider, is it possible to get the H/K system on a 320i? I know it's not listed on the website, but I feel like I've seen a mention somewhere on the forum that the right SA can make it happen?

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by englishguy84

I test drove the Lexus before I pulled the trigger on a 230i. Not worth it to me—why have a car that lasts for 15 years that I don't even enjoy owning? At this price range, that's the point.

Tturedraider, is it possible to get the H/K system on a 320i? I know it's not listed on the website, but I feel like I've seen a mention somewhere on the forum that the right SA can make it happen?

It is possible to get HK on a 320i. And, yes, it requires a CA who's willing to put forth a little extra effort. You might want to PM member Technic over on the 'fest. He got it on his 320i. He even got a leather dash approved on his 320i.

[englishguy84]

Update--they still haven't bought a car, but are planning to do so early next year. Thought I'd check for them to see what engine the 320i gets for 2018--B48 or N20?

[eluded]

Originally Posted by englishguy84

My parents want to buy a new 3 and are concerned about reliability.