[VR-Tech]

Unlike the M4/M3, I would assume that people that get a hold of the M2 are mainly purchasing. Which is quite different story to the M3/4, those are leased like crazy! Usual M4 leases go from $750-1050 a month. That's pretty nuts when you can just put a decent down on the M2 and pay 600+ a month and it's yours.

That's said, I see that people can lease the M2 for about $900 a month.
Are people here leasing or buying? If you are leasing, what benefits are there when there is no incentives to do so?

[McGary911]

I plan on keeping mine for a while so I'll be buying. I'm just going to pay for it at once. It's a big check to write, but writing a check for $700 \ month will bug me. Kind of like tearing off the band aid real quick rather than slow.

[gmzanatta]

There's a poll somewhere on the forum that measures this. I believe vast majority bought, unless it's for a business, then they leased.

I think very few "home" customers leased it, it mostly seemed business ones.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by VR-Tech

Unlike the M4/M3, I would assume that people that get a hold of the M2 are mainly purchasing. Which is quite different story to the M3/4, those are leased like crazy! Usual M4 leases go from $750-1050 a month. That's pretty nuts when you can just put a decent down on the M2 and pay 600+ a month and it's yours.

That's said, I see that people can lease the M2 for about $900 a month.
Are people here leasing or buying? If you are leasing, what benefits are there when there is no incentives to do so?

The residuals and money factor on the M2 are terrible. The theory is that BMW does not need to do crap to move this car.

So MOST people are buying - and smart ones, even if they own a business are buying provided they have talked to their accountant and realized that leasing is not a requirement when running it through the business (all leasing does is spread your write-off over the course of the lease vs. at the end when you get rid of the car).

There is a thread on the M3 board about money factors and residuals, I wish the mods would rename it "I really can't afford an M3 but do you think I can get my payments down to $X?"

[gmzanatta]

Originally Posted by doug_999

There is a thread on the M3 board about money factors and residuals, I wish the mods would rename it "I really can't afford an M3 but do you think I can get my payments down to $X?"

Too real man, too real...

[Corinne]

Originally Posted by McGary911

I plan on keeping mine for a while so I'll be buying. I'm just going to pay for it at once. It's a big check to write, but writing a check for $700 \ month will bug me. Kind of like tearing off the band aid real quick rather than slow.

I couldn't agree more !

[Arizona_Steve]

Originally Posted by McGary911

I plan on keeping mine for a while so I'll be buying. I'm just going to pay for it at once. It's a big check to write, but writing a check for $700 \ month will bug me. Kind of like tearing off the band aid real quick rather than slow.

Took the same approach when I got mine. Paid cash, no car payments.

[VR-Tech]

Originally Posted by Arizona_Steve

Took the same approach when I got mine. Paid cash, no car payments.

That's great you guys can. I can't unfortunately, but at around $600 a month, it is quite comfortable.

[F87_LCI]

There are advantages and disadvantages to both of course. Much of the decision whether to lease or buy is personal. The opinion below is how I personally feel about it...

I am leasing.

...not because I can't afford to write a cheque for the car, so I'll stop all the "you really can't afford it" talk right now. Funny how quick some people jump to that conclusion.

I am an accountant, so those who want to reply with "my accountant said this or that" can also refrain from responding. A car is a poor investment, one of the worst actually...except maybe for those who bought Blackberry stock at $70 in the mid 2000's - yes, even an M2. It is not a $1M limited/numbered supercar. It is a $60K 2 Series with some added kit. Very few cars hold their value in the short-mid term and even fewer appreciate.

I see a car as an expense, plain and simple. I dislike break-downs on the side of the road and then paying for repairs so having a car out of warranty is not something I enjoy. I like to have/use newer technology, so I don't like to have a vehicle that is older than a few years. Life is short, I prefer to try new and different things so long term ownership does not appeal to me. I can't stand selling used items especially cars/motorcycles/etc. Too many test pilots who want to offer you half of what is reasonable. At the end of my lease, the car is the dealer's problem. Not mine. Hence I lease...because leasing checks all these boxes. For me. It is not the same for everyone.

My wife is in the "let's buy" camp, so we bought her car outright because she will drive it until it dies as she did with the last one and the one before that. She doesn't care about cars - it is a conveyance that goes from A to B. She does not like to have debt or monthly payment obligations. Buying checks all of the boxes. For her.

In the end it's a personal decision that people make based on their preferences and personal circumstances. Neither is "better" than the other, it all depends on your own needs/desires.

/LSB

[jdarwin]

Originally Posted by McGary911

I plan on keeping mine for a while so I'll be buying. I'm just going to pay for it at once. It's a big check to write, but writing a check for $700 \ month will bug me. Kind of like tearing off the band aid real quick rather than slow.

Considering my investment portfolio is will average 4-6% over 5 years (more since the election), to finance at 2.08% made sense to me rather than paying cash. An M2 is a depreciating asset anyway - would actually make sense to lease it, actually.

[pruettfan]

As stated above there is already a post on this. From my recollection just about everyone who leased did so because they owned a business and could write off the lease payment which made leasing work for them. Several other members did the payment saver type route where there is a ballon payment so its essentially an open ended lease. Most have done conventional financing and some have written a big ass check like myself. Cars are not an investment they are a depreciating asset in all but the rarest cases. Of the millions of cars sold every year just a handful won't depreciate like a rock and very few will appreciate for at least a while (GT3-RS, 918 Spyder, GT-350R). Having said that I love cars and saved and sacrificed for years to get my M2 so I decided owning it outright while not a great financial decision was a great way to go for my experience. I meet with my accountant later this week and I am sure he will give me that look but we only live once.

[VR-Tech]

Originally Posted by LagunaSecaBlue

There are advantages and disadvantages to both of course. Much of the decision whether to lease or buy is personal. The opinion below is how I personally feel about it...

I am leasing.

...not because I can't afford to write a cheque for the car, so I'll stop all the "you really can't afford it" talk right now. Funny how quick some people jump to that conclusion.

I am an accountant, so those who want to reply with "my accountant said this or that" can also refrain from responding. A car is a poor investment, one of the worst actually...except maybe for those who bought Blackberry stock at $70 in the mid 2000's - yes, even an M2. It is not a $1M limited/numbered supercar. It is a $60K 2 Series with some added kit. Very few cars hold their value in the short-mid term and even fewer appreciate.

I see a car as an expense, plain and simple. I dislike break-downs on the side of the road and then paying for repairs so having a car out of warranty is not something I enjoy. I like to have/use newer technology, so I don't like to have a vehicle that is older than a few years. Life is short, I prefer to try new and different things so long term ownership does not appeal to me. I can't stand selling used items especially cars/motorcycles/etc. Too many test pilots who want to offer you half of what is reasonable. At the end of my lease, the car is the dealer's problem. Not mine. Hence I lease...because leasing checks all these boxes. For me. It is not the same for everyone.

My wife is in the "let's buy" camp, so we bought her car outright because she will drive it until it dies as she did with the last one and the one before that. She doesn't care about cars - it is a conveyance that goes from A to B. She does not like to have debt or monthly payment obligations. Buying checks all of the boxes. For her.

In the end it's a personal decision that people make based on their preferences and personal circumstances. Neither is "better" than the other, it all depends on your own needs/desires.

/LSB

Thanks for sharing mate! Makes sense on your situation

[VR-Tech]

Originally Posted by pruettfan

As stated above there is already a post on this. From my recollection just about everyone who leased did so because they owned a business and could write off the lease payment which made leasing work for them. Several other members did the payment saver type route where there is a ballon payment so its essentially an open ended lease. Most have done conventional financing and some have written a big ass check like myself. Cars are not an investment they are a depreciating asset in all but the rarest cases. Of the millions of cars sold every year just a handful won't depreciate like a rock and very few will appreciate for at least a while (GT3-RS, 918 Spyder, GT-350R). Having said that I love cars and saved and sacrificed for years to get my M2 so I decided owning it outright while not a great financial decision was a great way to go for my experience. I meet with my accountant later this week and I am sure he will give me that look but we only live once.

Don't forget the E46 M3 CSL, and 1M . This appreciate

[gmzanatta]

Originally Posted by pruettfan

Cars are not an investment they are a depreciating asset in all but the rarest cases.

I consider it an investment in my well being

Joking aside, couldn't agree more.

[M2 Blur]

Originally Posted by VR-Tech

Unlike the M4/M3, I would assume that people that get a hold of the M2 are mainly purchasing. Which is quite different story to the M3/4, those are leased like crazy! Usual M4 leases go from $750-1050 a month. That's pretty nuts when you can just put a decent down on the M2 and pay 600+ a month and it's yours.

That's said, I see that people can lease the M2 for about $900 a month.
Are people here leasing or buying? If you are leasing, what benefits are there when there is no incentives to do so?

I purchased but did a hybrid loan from PenFed Credit Union. I did an Auto Saver Loan with a ballon at the end of the term. This is similar to BMW Select but with a better rate and higher residual value.

Put what you can afford down on the car to reduce your monthly and the final payment is based on the expected residual value of the car. I expect I'll refinance it or sell it if I want a different car or the latest M2 .

A third party warranty is a must after 4 years so add that into the refinancing or pay outright. I've used Protective Asset Protection (purchased through my BMW dealer) and they had better coverage than BMW extended and/or CPO warranties. It paid for itself x2 over for the 2 years I had the warranty.

I'm sure PenFed has been mentioned but the only membership requirement is that someone in your family is/was in the military. Their rates are very competitive and I've used them for years.

Anyway, just my .02

[VR-Tech]

Originally Posted by M2 Blur

I purchased but did a hybrid loan from PenFed Credit Union. I did an Auto Saver Loan with a ballon at the end of the term. This is similar to BMW Select but with a better rate and higher residual value.

Put what you can afford down on the car to reduce your monthly and the final payment is based on the expected residual value of the car. I expect I'll refinance it or sell it if I want a different car or the latest M2 .

A third party warranty is a must after 4 years so add that into the refinancing or pay outright. I've used Protective Asset Protection (purchased through my BMW dealer) and they had better coverage than BMW extended and/or CPO warranties. It paid for itself x2 over for the 2 years I had the warranty.

I'm sure PenFed has been mentioned but the only membership requirement is that someone in your family is/was in the military. Their rates are very competitive and I've used them for years.

Anyway, just my .02

Wow, that is some financing gymnastics! Very cool, I am financing with my Credit Union

[pruettfan]

Originally Posted by M2 Blur

I purchased but did a hybrid loan from PenFed Credit Union. I did an Auto Saver Loan with a ballon at the end of the term. This is similar to BMW Select but with a better rate and higher residual value.

Put what you can afford down on the car to reduce your monthly and the final payment is based on the expected residual value of the car. I expect I'll refinance it or sell it if I want a different car or the latest M2 .

A third party warranty is a must after 4 years so add that into the refinancing or pay outright. I've used Protective Asset Protection (purchased through my BMW dealer) and they had better coverage than BMW extended and/or CPO warranties. It paid for itself x2 over for the 2 years I had the warranty.

I'm sure PenFed has been mentioned but the only membership requirement is that someone in your family is/was in the military. Their rates are very competitive and I've used them for years.

Anyway, just my .02

I totally disagree that a warranty is a must, the cost of these warranties most often will far exceed the repair costs. That is a statistical and financial fact. We only hear from the small percentage of extended warranty buyers who "won" and their warranty covered the cost of an expensive repair. These businesses are in the business of making money so clearly the odds are in their favor. Its an independent financial decision as to buy an extended warranty or not, it is not a must have. I drove my E90 for 215,000 miles and my repair costs were far less than the cost of a dealer extended warranty over the entire life of the car much less up to 100,000 miles. If you want protection cheaply buy the mechanical breakdown insurance from Geico for about 8 bucks a month, covers everything you just have to have insurance through them, car has to be less than 15,000 miles and 2 years as well as you need to be the original owner. Dealers hate Geico MBI.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by LagunaSecaBlue

There are advantages and disadvantages to both of course. Much of the decision whether to lease or buy is personal. The opinion below is how I personally feel about it...

I am leasing.

...not because I can't afford to write a cheque for the car, so I'll stop all the "you really can't afford it" talk right now. Funny how quick some people jump to that conclusion.

I am an accountant, so those who want to reply with "my accountant said this or that" can also refrain from responding. A car is a poor investment, one of the worst actually...except maybe for those who bought Blackberry stock at $70 in the mid 2000's - yes, even an M2. It is not a $1M limited/numbered supercar. It is a $60K 2 Series with some added kit. Very few cars hold their value in the short-mid term and even fewer appreciate.

I see a car as an expense, plain and simple. I dislike break-downs on the side of the road and then paying for repairs so having a car out of warranty is not something I enjoy. I like to have/use newer technology, so I don't like to have a vehicle that is older than a few years. Life is short, I prefer to try new and different things so long term ownership does not appeal to me. I can't stand selling used items especially cars/motorcycles/etc. Too many test pilots who want to offer you half of what is reasonable. At the end of my lease, the car is the dealer's problem. Not mine. Hence I lease...because leasing checks all these boxes. For me. It is not the same for everyone.

My wife is in the "let's buy" camp, so we bought her car outright because she will drive it until it dies as she did with the last one and the one before that. She doesn't care about cars - it is a conveyance that goes from A to B. She does not like to have debt or monthly payment obligations. Buying checks all of the boxes. For her.

In the end it's a personal decision that people make based on their preferences and personal circumstances. Neither is "better" than the other, it all depends on your own needs/desires.

/LSB

Maybe I'm reading between the lines....so let me clarify somethings
1. The comment about the residuals/mf on the M3 thread is simply about the posts that are in that thread (read it, it is awesome). It was not meant to mean that someone leasing only does so because they can't afford to buy.

2. Nothing personal, but even accountants can learn something about the lease vs. buy

I get the concept of why you like leasing - fixed monthly cost (and prior to the most recent maintenance changes), no real money out of pocket except gas, insurance, and tires.

and... as you pointed out, a nice fixed price at the end of the lease.

but/and... there is more...
On a highly optioned car, the lease has even more benefits. That $5,000 frozen paint job? You get 50-60% of that back at the end of the lease vs. basically 0% or maybe even a deduction if you were to trade in the car. Same with the B&O stereo at $3,700, that $10K M Sport package, etc. etc.
and there is more... leasing REALLY starts to get good when you can get a deal on the car - because the residual is based on the MSRP, not the selling price.

Now...let's talk about the M2....
1. You can't highly option this car. There is an exec package and a transmission (and that horrific waste of money, the apple car play). But these are really low cost options and the DCT has value on trade.
2. The residuals, as set by BMW are terrible.
3. The M2, is a low production car today and still going for basically MSRP and it is holding its value decently
(and yes, everything is subject to change)

So you end up with the "perfect storm" for why leasing the M2 is not a smart money choice.

[DivideBYZero]

CapEx Vs. OpEx. My money is working harder in my investments than it ever would in a depreciating asset.

[CanadianDriver]

Originally Posted by DivideBYZero

CapEx Vs. OpEx. My money is working harder in my investments than it ever would in a depreciating asset.

+1
Also for risk mitigation. If the car is much loved after 39 months, buyout is on the table.

[F87_LCI]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Now...let's talk about the M2....
1. You can't highly option this car. There is an exec package and a transmission (and that horrific waste of money, the apple car play). But these are really low cost options and the DCT has value on trade.
2. The residuals, as set by BMW are terrible.
3. The M2, is a low production car today and still going for basically MSRP and it is holding its value decently
(and yes, everything is subject to change)

So you end up with the "perfect storm" for why leasing the M2 is not a smart money choice.

As I said I have other qualitative reasons for leasing...but "Not a smart money choice"? Not sure it's that simple...

Scenario: (Let's keep it simple...no taxes, net present value calculations, time value of money, etc.)

We both start with $60K in our bank accounts.

You buy an M2 for 60K and you pay for it in full at time of purchase. So your all in cost is $60K. You own the car and your bank account is $0.

I lease the same car for 4 years. The residual from BMW is low at 45% and the lease rate (or MF) is 4%. This means I will pay $37,348.80 over 4 years. However, I only need to pay 1,556.20 right now (first month lease and damage deposit) I then take the remaining $58,443.80 and put in into a 4 yr fixed payment annuity at moderate risk profile which would easily provide a 6% annual return.

We each enjoy driving our respective M2 and 4 years pass by...

You own an aging depreciating asset with a market value likely at 50% of original purchase price or $30K - which is now "off warranty". You have $0 in your bank account.

I have cash in my bank account of $31,825.82 (remaining value of the annuity)

Option 1 -
Now let's say your premonition is true and the M2 "holds its value decently" and has a market value at the end of 4 years of $40K (which would be unheard of by the way).

You still own an off-warranty aging depreciating asset with a market value of $40K...and $0 in your bank account.

I have cash in my bank of $31.8K (from scenario above). However I now have the option to buy the car for $27K (the 45% residual lease cost). I exercise my right to buy. I now have the same off-warranty aging depreciating asset with a market value of $40K as you. AND I still have $4,825.82 in my bank account.

Option 2 -
The MY2018 M2 get the B58/S55 engine in the LCI and the market value of MY17 and prior M2 drops to $25K after 4 years.

You own an off-warranty aging depreciating asset with a market value of $25K. $0 in your bank account.

I have cash in my bank account of $31,825.82 (remaining value of the annuity). I don't exercise my option to buy and I simply give the car back to the dealer.

My point is there is a lot that can happen and to make a blanket statement that "buying is a smarter money choice" is a bit naive.

If buying was the right choice for you, then that's great.

None of this is meant to create animosity or bad faith toward you or your opinion, I'm just illustrating with data.

We're all here because we like cars. As is so happened I was simply trying to provide the OP with some advice to do what is right for him/her.

Enjoy your car...I still have 10 months wait for mine.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by jdarwin

Considering my investment portfolio is will average 4-6% over 5 years (more since the election), to finance at 2.08% made sense to me rather than paying cash. An M2 is a depreciating asset anyway - would actually make sense to lease it, actually.

I had considered this but I tend to buy things (stocks) that I think are good long term investments and didn't want to be taking my M2 money and watching it like a hawk over 3 years or whatever making sure I beat the interest. And since the election I am even less enthusiastic about putting more money in the market... the market seems high now I am expecting things to fall a bit, and of course I could bet against the market but I just wanted to keep it simple and just buy the car.

But I do agree the smart thing to do if you have the time, money to lose, and the brains is to invest it and beat the interest.