[TBro2002]

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[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by TBro2002

Because I own a 228i, got selected to go to a auto consumer research event to day to look a new model cars. So the primary car they had us evaluate was a prototype of a new 2 series 4 door Grand Coupe. Sorry, no cell phone were allowed, so no pictures.

Other than the obvious of it being longer and having 2 more doors, the front and rear had an all new design. Rear design kind of took some design features from the new 7 series, but moves the license plate to bumper, off the deck lid, giving the rear a cleaner look. Taillights almost go accross rear deck lid, with black trim piece, with logo in the center. Very nice look. Dual exhaust with pipes coming out from both left and right side.

Interior was all new design. Instrument cluster is now LCD and has been merged with Connected Drive LCD, for one continuous LCD from front of driver to center of dash. Start button has been moved down next to gear selector and there is an electronic parking break. Gear selector has gotten smaller and shorter, giving the center console a clean look. There was also a new frameless rear view mirror. Sunroof was enlarge to open to rear seat.

Bad news is new 2 Grand Coupe is front wheel drive.

For the 2 Grand Coupe evaluation we also evaluated a MB CLA, Audi A3, and BMW 3 next to it for comparison.

I also got to evaluate a prototype of the new 4 series. I thought it was butt ugly. They put a huge Audi style front grill on it, with the license plate right in the middle. The current 4 sitting next to it looked much better.

Sounds like you attended a 1 Series Sedan clinic for the U.S. potential launch of the car first going to China. Why do you refer to it as a 2 Series...did anyone at the clinic use that nomenclature? BMW product plans, as shown in Automotive News, indicate that the 2 Series Gran Coupe for 2019 shares the current 2 Series platform, but a 1 Series FWD sedan is also anticipated.

[TBro2002]

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[TBro2002]

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[Kiwi]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Sounds like you attended a 1 Series Sedan clinic for the U.S. potential launch of the car first going to China. Why do you refer to it as a 2 Series...did anyone at the clinic use that nomenclature? BMW product plans, as shown in Automotive News, indicate that the 2 Series Gran Coupe for 2019 shares the current 2 Series platform, but a 1 Series FWD sedan is also anticipated.

The next 1 series is going to be a 2 series to make room for a smaller 1 series to come through and all will be front wheel drive. Rear wheel drive will only be 3 series and above after 2018-20

[siwo]

Awesome experience. Thanks for the input. Sad to hear that their intent was to go for a FWD, might as well buy a MINI 5-door or Countryman in that case for the fun factor in that case. Plus I'm pretty sure it'll be lower on the price grid.

[TBro2002]

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[Sportstick]

There are a variety of reasons for what may happen in a clinic or what is actually being tested. Take a look below at what is in Automotive News, generally regarded as the industry "bible". They annually post their Future Product reviews for all major OEs....here are two excerpts:





They have already written that the next gen G20 3 Series on the CLAR platform (previously known as 35UP) will get larger, so they apparently perceive space for a Gran Coupe from the current gen 2 platform, as the entire 2 Series is not new again until 2021. Meanwhile, we have the 1 Series Sedan just launching in China and coming here next year. The OP may have seen a 2 Gran Coupe prototype, and in a conjoint analysis, may have been given one set of specs with FWD while another sample within the clinic saw the same car with different specs. The relative utilities of both specs are then compared to gain insights on their effect.

The bottom line is that we are trying to understand two different vehicles which are apparently both coming. 1) The new UKL platform-based FWD sedan now launching in China and expected in the US within another year, and 2) the 2 Series Gran Coupe for 2019. We also have the possibility of BMW's nomenclature plan resulting in the FWD car being a 2 Series Sedan and the RWD car being a 2 Series Gran Coupe. Having the FWD Active Tourer called a 2 Series suggests that nomenclature for BMW is quite "fluid".

[duky]

So I'm confused. The design was not like this at all? http://www.autoblog.com/2016/07/19/b...an-china-only/

[cncmastr]

I did one of these clinics years ago before they unveiled the E92 and thought it was the coolest thing any BMW fan can be part of, the best part is that they pay you! Shit, I would have paid them!

[clbmw]

I hope you told them that all the TV screens in the world won't make up for getting rid of the single reason not to buy a competitor car in that class.

Shame on BMW for starting to f*** up what is probably the best line of car they've had in the past 10 years

And if it's because 8 out 10 cats or one series buyers don't know their car is RWD then the dealers should be taking them on some more interesting test drive routes

[Mark]

Originally Posted by TBro2002

Because I own a 228i, got selected to go to a auto consumer research event to day to look a new model cars. So the primary car they had us evaluate was a prototype of a new 2 series 4 door Grand Coupe. Sorry, no cell phone were allowed, so no pictures.

Other than the obvious of it being longer and having 2 more doors, the front and rear had an all new design. Rear design kind of took some design features from the new 7 series, but moves the license plate to bumper, off the deck lid, giving the rear a cleaner look. Taillights almost go accross rear deck lid, with black trim piece, with logo in the center. Very nice look. Dual exhaust with pipes coming out from both left and right side.

Interior was all new design. Instrument cluster is now LCD and has been merged with Connected Drive LCD, for one continuous LCD from front of driver to center of dash. Start button has been moved down next to gear selector and there is an electronic parking break. Gear selector has gotten smaller and shorter, giving the center console a clean look. There was also a new frameless rear view mirror. Sunroof was enlarge to open to rear seat.

Bad news is new 2 Grand Coupe is front wheel drive.

For the 2 Grand Coupe evaluation we also evaluated a MB CLA, Audi A3, and BMW 3 next to it for comparison.

I also got to evaluate a prototype of the new 4 series. I thought it was butt ugly. They put a huge Audi style front grill on it, with the license plate right in the middle. The current 4 sitting next to it looked much better.

Thx for the insight and feedback on this event, gives us a great idea of whats coming down the pike

[TBro2002]

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[phoenixbmwlife]

Don't you have to sign a non disclosure agreement before doing this?

[ORIGIN M.]

Car will be xDrive in NA.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by TBro2002

This may be very true. Everyone at the event was given a different iPad with all the questions on it. I noticed they were very careful to assign the iPads by certain codes depending on what the persons current vehicle ownership is and demographic. On the 2 4 door prototype, we could only see the exterior and interior. So other people at the clinic may have been given different specs and suggested pricing for their opinions.

It's a very interesting process. There was some actual interviews included in the process. They collect data on every little detail of the cars to roll into the research. At some point all this data will get rolled up and changes will be made to the design of the prototype.

The prototypes were also at different stages of design. The 4 series prototype we gave opinions on was at an earlier stage of development, as we could only look at the exterior to evaluate and we also gave opinions on drawings of different looks to the front and rear designs.

Yes, and if we think about program development timing, the FWD UKL platform sedan (whatever they call it) is fully baked and ready to go, and the the 2 Gran Coupe on the RWD current platform is, by now, quite far along for a 18CY launch of a 19MY program. What you may have taken part in is the decision point for BMW for the 2021 all-new 2 Series launch. This would still be an appropriate timing point to direct that program to either the CLAR or UKL platforms, and the current data may help with that decision. Having a split sample for a conjoint analysis with a common property would be a robust way to analyze the market demand.

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by clbmw

I hope you told them that all the TV screens in the world won't make up for getting rid of the single reason not to buy a competitor car in that class.

Shame on BMW for starting to f*** up what is probably the best line of car they've had in the past 10 years

And if it's because 8 out 10 cats or one series buyers don't know their car is RWD then the dealers should be taking them on some more interesting test drive routes

This was probably the Chinese 1 series with some US Spec stuff added to it. The thing could end up being RWD in the end.. But it probably won't be. :-(

[GLTSRY1905]

Instead of having all these different models , why don't they use the money to improve the quality of current models. Especially the 3 series...

Some of you may not agree but the material quality in the 3 series is not justified when you consider the extra price we pay for these "German Built" vehicles. Maybe just me but especially the plastics are really slacking. Hard plastic , doesn't feel solid like it used to. Has that empty , hollow feel to it.

Not acceptable for 60k+ vehicles honestly

[Fugly M3]

was this the one in manhattan beach? I was invited to it for this weekend as I have the A3 currently, but I just didn't want to take the time. I figured it might be for the 2 sedan. Interesting insight.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by Blubaron79

This was probably the Chinese 1 series with some US Spec stuff added to it. The thing could end up being RWD in the end.. But it probably won't be. :-(

I think BMW would be monumentally stupid to turn their baby coupe into FWD.

Personally I don't care about the mini, or even entry level 1 series and 2er people carriers being FWD but I draw the line at sports coupes.

I hope you're right but I'm worried that you might not be

[scoale]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

They have already written that the next gen G20 3 Series on the CLAR platform (previously known as 35UP) will get larger

Thought I had read that they were working on making 3 Series lighter? Completely uninterested in a larger 3 Series

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by scoale

Thought I had read that they were working on making 3 Series lighter? Completely uninterested in a larger 3 Series

Both....the same CLAR platform technology which went into the new 7 series is being migrated down to the 5 and 3, and perhaps the new 2021 2 (possibly depending on this very research!). Many reviewers of the new 7 wrote that it felt like driving an entire segment smaller vehicle due to weight reduction and agility. The body is lighter with the use of carbon fiber and aluminum, even if larger. I had the chance to see a totally stripped down 7 series body-in-white as part of a competitive review, and the strut tower areas are completely carbon fiber! With BMW's investment in CF for i3 bodies (apparently they are building their own CF factory), we can expect to see it used more for structural components.

With the new C Class also having grown after the launch of the CLA, BMW is expected not to let the new G20 CLAR-based 3 Series to fall behind. Same info base also points to significant improvement in interior quality for the same reasons. I wouldn't give up on the new 3 until we get to check it out in person!