BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
M2 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > Brake judder

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-01-2016, 08:05 PM   #1
Pyrat 2
Colonel
Pyrat 2's Avatar
United_States
1418
Rep
2,559
Posts

Drives: Rapidly from A to B
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chicago 'burbs or TN Smokies

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Brake judder

So I went to the track a week ago and had a great day. I drove the car hard and used the brakes hard. No fade the entire time. For sure a more aggressive pad would have been nice but the stock pads held up fine given that I was running the stock MPSS and that this was my first time out. After every session I did a full cool down lap with no brakes and then when off the track I did further cool down before parking to make sure that brakes were nice and cool. Despite all of my precautions I have uneven pad deposit and brake judder on both the front rotors.

So rather than ask the question on how to solve this short of new rotors and pads what I really want to know is how do I prevent this in the future? In this case I had about 1500 miles on the pads and took the first fews laps relatively lightly. Did extensive cool downs too.

Advice please.
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2016, 03:26 AM   #2
gthal
Major General
gthal's Avatar
Canada
1901
Rep
5,678
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

There is not a lot you can do about this... as you mention it is very likely pad deposits on the rotors and something that is simply common when street pads are used at the track. Give it a week or two of normal driving and it will go away. Outside of the precautions you already noted, I haven't found a way to avoid this (outside of being easier on the brakes at the track) with OEM pads.

I have found that track pads are far less prone to this issue. Also, they are so abrasive when cold that they naturally clean the rotors themselves on the drive home. No new rotors needed... just pads swapped before track days.
__________________
2020 X3 M40i | Black | Current DD
2020 C8 Corvette | Z51 | Torch Red ... built and waiting for delivery
2016 M2 | Long Beach Blue | 6MT
2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | DCT
2012 MB C63AMG | 2011 E92 M3 | 2010 E92 M3
Appreciate 2
      06-02-2016, 05:35 AM   #3
M+M
Second Lieutenant
M+M's Avatar
New Zealand
227
Rep
245
Posts

Drives: M2 DCT MPerformance coilovers
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Agree track pads. You may be able to find a compromise pad that is able to handle the track work you do (since the factory pads seemed to provide the stopping power ok) and use for DD as well. Other wise if you go aggressive track pads you will definitely have to swap out again for street.
If street driving a few days doesn't clear the problem you could take some fine sand paper and lightly sand off the deposits on the rotor.
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2016, 06:15 PM   #4
Fullofdays
Private
41
Rep
76
Posts

Drives: m
Join Date: May 2014
Location: CLT

iTrader: (0)

I've used abrasive pads with a drill mount on the rotors with past track/street cars. Other option is just to drive it per usual on the street for a week or so.
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2016, 06:59 PM   #5
LBBDrew
Lieutenant
336
Rep
522
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB M2
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

I had pretty bad deposits on my rotors from a track day 4 months ago on my S4. I swear I still feel a slightly mushy pedal when I brake hard...
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2016, 12:51 PM   #6
jritt@essex
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
jritt@essex's Avatar
United_States
1019
Rep
839
Posts


Drives: e90 335i, NSX, 997.2, 987.1
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

As others have said, street pads are for the street, and track pads are for the track. When you exceed a pad's Max Operating Temperature (MOT), they tend to break down and smear on the discs (or come off in chunks). Once that happens, it can be tough to cure. Street pads have a relatively low MOT. Track pads have a much higher MOT, and tend to adhere to the disc in a uniform manner up to far higher temps.

We have some great track/race pads for the M2...Ferodo DS1.11. You can see the details on our site.

Friends don't let friends drive street pads on the track...wish I had a better answer for you. Sorry brother!
Appreciate 0
      05-21-2017, 04:47 PM   #7
rich8566
Major
rich8566's Avatar
United_States
609
Rep
1,124
Posts

Drives: M2 + Z-4
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 BMW M235i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrat 2 View Post
So I went to the track a week ago and had a great day. I drove the car hard and used the brakes hard. No fade the entire time. For sure a more aggressive pad would have been nice but the stock pads held up fine given that I was running the stock MPSS and that this was my first time out. After every session I did a full cool down lap with no brakes and then when off the track I did further cool down before parking to make sure that brakes were nice and cool. Despite all of my precautions I have uneven pad deposit and brake judder on both the front rotors.

So rather than ask the question on how to solve this short of new rotors and pads what I really want to know is how do I prevent this in the future? In this case I had about 1500 miles on the pads and took the first fews laps relatively lightly. Did extensive cool downs too.

Advice please.
Same issue here. How was your problem resolved?
__________________
Current: 2017 ///M2 manual 2004 E85 Z-4 manual
Appreciate 0
      05-21-2017, 05:00 PM   #8
Pyrat 2
Colonel
Pyrat 2's Avatar
United_States
1418
Rep
2,559
Posts

Drives: Rapidly from A to B
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chicago 'burbs or TN Smokies

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
4 new rotors covered under warranty. Track pads after that and I haven't had the issue since.
__________________
'07 Z4MR '22 GT4 '18 GT3 '16 GT4, '16 M2, '14 X1, '13 135is, '06 330i, '03 323 Ci, '01 330i, '99 M3 (RIP), '96 318is, some non-BMWs
Appreciate 0
      05-21-2017, 05:03 PM   #9
rich8566
Major
rich8566's Avatar
United_States
609
Rep
1,124
Posts

Drives: M2 + Z-4
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 BMW M235i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrat 2 View Post
4 new rotors covered under warranty. Track pads after that and I haven't had the issue since.
Which track pads? On OEM rotors? Do you switch back and forth between track events and DD? What if any break in procedure do you use when switching pads? And the big question - are you judder free?
__________________
Current: 2017 ///M2 manual 2004 E85 Z-4 manual
Appreciate 0
      05-21-2017, 05:17 PM   #10
Pyrat 2
Colonel
Pyrat 2's Avatar
United_States
1418
Rep
2,559
Posts

Drives: Rapidly from A to B
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chicago 'burbs or TN Smokies

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich8566 View Post
Which track pads?
Carbotech XP10 in front and XP8 in the rear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich8566 View Post
On OEM rotors?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich8566 View Post
Do you switch back and forth between track events and DD?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich8566 View Post
What if any break in procedure do you use when switching pads?
None other then original bedding procedure the first time. I've heard that this is not recommended. But I have had no issues and just ran at the track yesterday with no issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich8566 View Post
And the big question - are you judder free?
Yes.
Appreciate 1
rich8566608.50
      05-22-2017, 08:00 PM   #11
rich8566
Major
rich8566's Avatar
United_States
609
Rep
1,124
Posts

Drives: M2 + Z-4
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 BMW M235i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrat 2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich8566 View Post
Which track pads?
Carbotech XP10 in front and XP8 in the rear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich8566 View Post
On OEM rotors?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich8566 View Post
Do you switch back and forth between track events and DD?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich8566 View Post
What if any break in procedure do you use when switching pads?
None other then original bedding procedure the first time. I've heard that this is not recommended. But I have had no issues and just ran at the track yesterday with no issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich8566 View Post
And the big question - are you judder free?
Yes.
Many thanks.
__________________
Current: 2017 ///M2 manual 2004 E85 Z-4 manual
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2017, 04:42 PM   #12
M2 Belgium
Private
27
Rep
57
Posts

Drives: BMW M2
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Did my second trackday today with the OEM pads. After the first time I had the same problem with the pad deposits. Now the problem has disappeared. Consistent feel and no judder anymore, despite heavy breaking (Zolder). Did about 6 sessions of 6 laps at 80%. Michelins held up fine as well. In the future track pads and brake fluid will be a necessity though...
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2017, 09:48 PM   #13
rich8566
Major
rich8566's Avatar
United_States
609
Rep
1,124
Posts

Drives: M2 + Z-4
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 BMW M235i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by M2 Belgium View Post
Did my second trackday today with the OEM pads. After the first time I had the same problem with the pad deposits. Now the problem has disappeared. Consistent feel and no judder anymore, despite heavy breaking (Zolder). Did about 6 sessions of 6 laps at 80%. Michelins held up fine as well. In the future track pads and brake fluid will be a necessity though...
I just ordered a set of Pagid RS29s
__________________
Current: 2017 ///M2 manual 2004 E85 Z-4 manual
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2017, 08:08 AM   #14
boostm3
Lieutenant Colonel
boostm3's Avatar
683
Rep
1,608
Posts

Drives: '18 LBB M2 6MT Exec
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Parkland, Fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrat 2 View Post
4 new rotors covered under warranty. Track pads after that and I haven't had the issue since.
Bmw doesnt warranty for track use does it? So did they replace under warranty assuming these pad deposits were acquired under normal road usage?
__________________
Boostm3
'18 LBB MT M2 Exec pkg, Moonroof, Production 7/6/17
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2017, 08:35 AM   #15
Pyrat 2
Colonel
Pyrat 2's Avatar
United_States
1418
Rep
2,559
Posts

Drives: Rapidly from A to B
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chicago 'burbs or TN Smokies

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by boostm3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrat 2 View Post
4 new rotors covered under warranty. Track pads after that and I haven't had the issue since.
Bmw doesnt warranty for track use does it? So did they replace under warranty assuming these pad deposits were acquired under normal road usage?
Correct. They wouldn't normally cover. I know my local sa and dealer very well so they managed to get it approved by BMW which they told me is required for all M rotor replacements. They know I'm at the track as some of them have been out there with me in the past. Anyhow they told me there was no way they would be able get another set approved. I bought track pads and all has been well since.
__________________
'07 Z4MR '22 GT4 '18 GT3 '16 GT4, '16 M2, '14 X1, '13 135is, '06 330i, '03 323 Ci, '01 330i, '99 M3 (RIP), '96 318is, some non-BMWs
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2017, 04:07 PM   #16
CosmosMpower
Brigadier General
CosmosMpower's Avatar
2049
Rep
3,714
Posts

Drives: F87c, GT3, MK7 GTI
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

Don't run stock pads if you don't want deposits.
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2017, 12:28 PM   #17
Rock Sweden
First Lieutenant
Rock Sweden's Avatar
United_States
267
Rep
361
Posts

Drives: 2016 M2
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The ALB

iTrader: (0)

I have not tracked my car or really leaned on the brakes very hard and I have what I think is judder. When the rotors get hot the brakes make a howling sound/ sensation. It happens when stopping from highway speeds.
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2017, 06:39 PM   #18
LBBDrew
Lieutenant
336
Rep
522
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB M2
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

Anyone experienced issues with deposits running a hybrid pad? Looking to snag a set of Ferodo DS2500s, but not keen on rotor deposits.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2017, 01:20 PM   #19
HP Autosport
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
United_States
3776
Rep
54,154
Posts


Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, AP, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, www.hpautosport.com

iTrader: (36)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LBBDrew View Post
Anyone experienced issues with deposits running a hybrid pad? Looking to snag a set of Ferodo DS2500s, but not keen on rotor deposits.
As long as you don't exceed the max. operating temp of the pads you will be fine. You will need to manage your brake well to keep them from getting too hot. If you want to keep the pads on, these are your best choice. Otherwise a full track pad like the DS1.11, RS29 or PFC08 will be better suited for the application.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2017, 02:46 PM   #20
J.M
First Lieutenant
J.M's Avatar
Netherlands
263
Rep
337
Posts

Drives: '17 M2 DCT BSM
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Nurburgring

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2017 BMW M2  [0.00]
Also got 4 new rotors and brake pads last Friday, replaced under warranty.
__________________
Check out my M2 YouTube channel: The HyperCar Collective
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:49 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST