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      05-09-2016, 10:21 PM   #1
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Anyone experienced in sand/polish?

Car is alpine white. I have 2 areas on the passenger door panel that were subject to dings with paint removed. About a quarter in width each.

For one of the dings, I overfilled the touchup paint so now it's an elevated/uneven area above the factory paint. About 2in in diameter.

The other one has some clearcoat rubbed off (long story, wasn't my idea). Also about 2in in diameter.

Would the following work?

1. Overfill both areas with touchup.
2. wet sand 2000 grit both areas down till they're completely even and level with the rest of the paint
3. use a dual action cutting pad (that's designed to leave orange peel texture alone) in the areas
4. dual action polish with polishing compound.


I have no experience with any of this and also none of the tools. Would appreciate feedback and product suggestions.
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      06-05-2016, 10:22 PM   #2
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anyone?
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      06-06-2016, 04:23 PM   #3
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That's a tough one to answer without seeing the damage.

Something else to consider is Langka blob remover (google it)

If you get touchup paint in the correct color, use Langka to smooth it, and then get clearcoat to cover that, some people have had good results.

The instant you start putting sandpaper on the car you're probably better off letting a body shop do it.
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      06-06-2016, 04:47 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vert_lover View Post
That's a tough one to answer without seeing the damage.

Something else to consider is Langka blob remover (google it)

If you get touchup paint in the correct color, use Langka to smooth it, and then get clearcoat to cover that, some people have had good results.

The instant you start putting sandpaper on the car you're probably better off letting a body shop do it.
Thanks. I did use Langka but it's not meant for the types of flaws I'm dealing with. They're not a definitive trough-style scratch that is easy to fill and then remove the excess.
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      06-06-2016, 05:04 PM   #5
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I commend your enthusiasm for attempting the repair.
Don't get testy, but let me ask...do you have a high end BMW recommended body shop near you? It's impressive what they can do.

As an aside, I had my front door painted by a painter that started out over thirty-years ago as an auto body painter ( http://coloralchemist.com/ ).
He spent over a month painting my door so we had a lot of discussion about painting and auto body.

It's just that a pro can repair your slight defects with ease. When you see a good painter do his thing, it's years of training and natural talent.
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      06-06-2016, 05:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
It's just that a pro can repair your slight defects with ease. When you see a good painter do his thing, it's years of training and natural talent.
Inexplicably, despite there being several "high end" auto detailing / body shops near me, not a single one will even dare do anything other than a complete repaint of the panel.

I find it unbelievable, but apparently that's just how it operates around these parts. I refuse to shell out $600 to correct a $100 (at most) problem.

I've watched a bunch of AmmoNYC videos which lead me to believe that it is possible to accomplish what I'm looking for and would love to have someone experienced do it. But over months of research and visits, it seems like I'm alone on this one.
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      06-06-2016, 05:41 PM   #7
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I just understand - labor by the hour is what it is.
Also you need to take the Ammo videos for what they are. Not saying their nefarious but as much as you may think results are flawless that's not often the case.
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      06-06-2016, 06:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
I just understand - labor by the hour is what it is.
Also you need to take the Ammo videos for what they are. Not saying their nefarious but as much as you may think results are flawless that's not often the case.
Can you elaborate?

Ammo hasn't done anything to suggest that they're covering up mistakes, etc. There are a lot of lighted close-ups that clearly show the results. There have also been times where a perfect result was not possible, and they didn't hide that fact (such as the key-scratched G Wagen video).
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      06-06-2016, 06:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaoxi View Post
Can you elaborate?

Ammo hasn't done anything to suggest that they're covering up mistakes, etc. There are a lot of lighted close-ups that clearly show the results. There have also been times where a perfect result was not possible, and they didn't hide that fact (such as the key-scratched G Wagen video).
Find me an Ammo video where he makes a stone chip disappear...detailing is very limited in terms of correction. And video can't reveal what in-person can.
I'm not saying Ammo is pulling anything, and I tried to acknowledge that.
Anything is possible but realize applying touch up by brush versus spray is a factor.
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      06-06-2016, 06:58 PM   #10
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I think I understand where you're coming from now. And hopefully you haven't interpreted my questions as being hostile or defensive, just trying to do due diligence before ruining my door lol. I very much appreciate the responses.

As for Ammo, I don't recall any videos where he's specifically done what I had in mind (touch up + sanding). The ones using touchup are either too small or too large for sanding to make sense. Sanding / repolish videos were done to fix marring / swirls with spectacular results though, and I just put 2 + 2 together.


Here are 2 videos that are closest to what I'm potentially dealing with:



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      07-21-2016, 12:06 AM   #11
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Wanted to follow up on the wet sanding / paint correction project. Happy to report that the results came out very well. There were 2 spots in particular that I can't even find anymore, with the other ones now blended well enough for my tolerance.

With that said, thought I'd share / document the process I took. No after pics yet because I don't think I can even pick them up on the camera.

Paint Correction with Wetsanding

Material / Tools needed:
- OEM touchup paint for best match
- Isopropyl Alcohol
- Detailer spray / spray wax
- Lots of microfiber towels
- 3M auto masking tape
- Langka Blob Eliminator
- Toothpicks & Cotton Swabs
- Dual Action or Random Orbital Buffer
- Microfiber polishing / cutting pads
- Meguiar M105 & M205
- 2000 & 3000 grit sandpaper
- Sanding sponge pad

Things to keep in mind:

The primary purpose of touchup paint is protection against rust by filling in spots where original paint has been removed and could potentially affect the surrounding area from moisture if left unattended. Therefore, the desire to fully restore appearance should be secondary to the main purpose above. In many cases it will not be possible to achieve 100% success due to the specific damages, such as denting or the way paint was chipped. With that said, wet sanding, if done correctly, can minimize the appearance disruption while fulfilling the main goal of protection.

My process described below differs slightly from other methods you may have come across. It is meant for cars with hard factory paint and clearcoat.

My personal case:
F22 M235i Alpine White III (color code 300)
BMW OEM 300 Touchup Paint
Factory paint: hard

1. Clean the general affected areas with a microfiber towel and iso. alcohol to remove dirt and wax.

2. Clean the scratch / chip itself by dousing a cotton swap in iso and rubbing it into the damage. In conjunction, also remove any loose debris inside with a toothpick.

3. Use 3M tape to mask the areas to be worked on. The delineated area should be wide enough to allow for buffing.

4. In most cases, only the basecoat touchup is needed. Use the included brush and dab over the damage. Intend on overfilling the scratch/chip, but try to contain the paint-over area to an absolute minimum. I have found that the dabbing-with-a-tooth-pick method is not good enough in many cases.

5. Paint needs 2-3 days minimum to dry and harden. In the mean time, prep the wetsanding by submerging the sandpapers in a bucket of water.

6. Use Langka (as directed) to MODERATELY smooth and flatten the touchup overfill. DO NOT try to flatten completely, as this will strip too much of the touchup and weaken its integrity, and will expose the original damage. Rather, flatten just enough to eliminate the most obvious peaks in texture, while maintaining a comfortable “bump” above the damage.

7. Wrap the 2000 grit sandpaper around the sanding pad and hand sand directly over the touchup overfill using the edge side and corner of the pad for maximum control. Apply very light pressure and slowly flatten the touchup using back-and-forth motion. Use light circular motions around the edge of the overfill to sand and blend with factory paint. Don’t worry about making this perfect and still maintain a small bump over the damage itself.

8. Once the overfill has been mostly blended, replace the 2000 grit with 3000 grit around the sponge pad. You can now use wider motion to sand the general area.

9. At this point, the sanded area will be hazy, as a fraction of the clearcoat will have been sanded off. Don’t freak out.

10. Apply M105 to the cutting pad and hand-rub the compound evenly into the entire pad. Dab the primed pad (and buffer) onto the general panel area and begin buffing at very low speed. Use light pressure and slow / stead motion. A few short passes should be enough to restore gloss to the paint.

11. Repeat #10 with a new pad and M205 to finish.

* During the buffing phase, the pad will continue to rub away touchup paint, which is why the bump in thickness mentioned above needs to be maintained; It compensates for the thinning during buffing.

* If result is not up to desired expectation, you can repeat the steps above, but should be done with very high caution as there will be less clearcoat to work with. Sanding off the clearcoat completely will introduce more visual issues that can’t be fixed with another pass of buffing.

* You should continually clean the areas after every compound application with detailer spray and a clean section of microfiber towel.



Here are a few examples of the "before".

Passenger panel: 3 chips (1 slightly dented) from 2 ding occurrences)

Lighting shot to show damaged clearcoat from previous botched "magic blender" from Costco...don't do it lol
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      07-21-2016, 07:23 AM   #12
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Good work, try to do AFTER pics just for fun.
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      07-21-2016, 11:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaoxi View Post
Can you elaborate?

Ammo hasn't done anything to suggest that they're covering up mistakes, etc. There are a lot of lighted close-ups that clearly show the results. There have also been times where a perfect result was not possible, and they didn't hide that fact (such as the key-scratched G Wagen video).
Find me an Ammo video where he makes a stone chip disappear...detailing is very limited in terms of correction. And video can't reveal what in-person can.
I'm not saying Ammo is pulling anything, and I tried to acknowledge that.
Anything is possible but realize applying touch up by brush versus spray is a factor.
Actually, that guy is very upfront and honest about the results he's able to achieve or not achieve. There's a video where he tries to repair a penis that was etched into the hood of a car. At the end he admits that he's only able to do so much and that the hood will need to be repainted.
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      07-22-2016, 08:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentZero View Post
Actually, that guy is very upfront and honest about the results he's able to achieve or not achieve. There's a video where he tries to repair a penis that was etched into the hood of a car. At the end he admits that he's only able to do so much and that the hood will need to be repainted.
Probably watched every one of Larry's videos and he's probably the only person in the world I'd let detail my collection - if I had a collection

I think if your going to do paint chip or scratches on a 2-series it's best to practice on a hood from a junkyard. Don't go from watching videos right to your car.
But, would be very interested in seeing pics of repairs, and woukd probably be very impressed with repairs done by members of this forum.
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      07-22-2016, 08:25 AM   #15
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I'll try to take some pics tonight.
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      07-26-2016, 01:23 AM   #16
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ScottSinger

Sorry for the delay, finally got around to taking some pics. I had a hell of a time trying to capture the corrections on camera. Admittedly, I think the camera makes it look better than it actually does, but would it be fair to say at that point it's acceptable?

Tried to recreate the same shots for the first 2:






Here's a shot of the frontal-most scratch/ding area (reference the 1st before pic). Camera couldn't pick it up but the touchup area is a bit uneven and you can see it with the naked eye at the right angle. Nothing more can be done about this one since it's technically a dent.




Not the last, but most noticeable on camera (driver-side roof line, rock chipped off the paint completely. Finger is pointing right next to it):

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      07-26-2016, 06:11 AM   #17
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Also, you knew where to look for the touch-up spots...anyone else wouldn't notice anything. Wet Sanding does a great job.
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      07-26-2016, 08:23 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaoxi View Post
ScottSinger

Sorry for the delay, finally got around to taking some pics. I had a hell of a time trying to capture the corrections on camera. Admittedly, I think the camera makes it look better than it actually does, but would it be fair to say at that point it's acceptable?

Tried to recreate the same shots for the first 2:






Here's a shot of the frontal-most scratch/ding area (reference the 1st before pic). Camera couldn't pick it up but the touchup area is a bit uneven and you can see it with the naked eye at the right angle. Nothing more can be done about this one since it's technically a dent.




Not the last, but most noticeable on camera (driver-side roof line, rock chipped off the paint completely. Finger is pointing right next to it):

Damn, good job dude!
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      08-21-2016, 08:19 PM   #19
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Great work. I gotta learn how to do this lol.
I'll start by referencing your post and watch some of the ammo nyc videos.

My car's brand new but why not be prepared.

Right now I have the Griots porter cable buffer. I have had it since 2009 and never used it. I have the Langka blob eliminator and tools for paint chip touchup.

Other than that though I try to avoid using the buffer system. I've been detailing since the high school days in 1999-2000 and haven't really changed since. I use lots of Zymol Hd Cleanse and Zymol Creame, concours, or Destiny wax on my cars. For clay routine I use a rotation of Zymol(medium), Griots, or Mothers(light).

For polishes I mainly use Meguairs Mirror Glaze #7 polish, Mirror Glaze Swirl Remover 2.0, and Mirror Glaze #2 Fine Cut Cleaner.
I also have the old school professional Car Groom #26 cleaner & polish which I use sometimes.

The Hand routine is Good, tried and true but I gotta invest in pad money for my orbital. I think you need a stocked up supply of various pads. I'll start using the orbital eventually when I get the confidence to use it. I've just had a lot of success with my hand done routine n I guess that's my problem.
For my paint chip repairs if it's bad enough I have my paint guy air brush them n wet sand/polish to perfect it.

We'll see what I learn these coming years with my new 2 series.
Sorry if I'm a lil off topic with this comment. It stirred my imagination lol.
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      08-21-2016, 11:26 PM   #20
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Also a Zymol fan, haven't used the HD.
Your cabrio is great looking. Wheels, interior color - perfect.
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