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      04-07-2016, 03:21 PM   #1
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May get slammed (2nd post) - why the m2?

Hi All,

I'm a car guy and believe the M2 is a great car. But i just dont see it being something that is going to be tough to get. Maybe within the next 30-60 days but not much further out than that. There are 12 or so listed on autotrader at msrp even before the car is "available". Part of the reason its this big secret of when, how many. how often etc. is likely do to the fact it isnt even out yet. Dealers want to sell whats out, it doesnt help them much to know every detail about an unreleased car. I predict Its going to depreciate like any other car and you'll see used ones available pretty quickly.

I get there are long wait lists but putting your name on a wait list and actually stroking a check for 57k are 2 entirely different things.

You have to consider what else you can buy for 50-60k. Used 2015 M4's can be had at that price point. And i understand not everyone thinks an M4 is the better car but its still an option. same with cayman s, rs5, c7 etc. Again, not definitively better cars, but options the buyer has.

I remember when the i8 was announced, wait lists+huge markup... the c7 was 20k over msrp. now both examples can be had well below msrp. this pretty much happens with many newly released cars and most the hype, anticipation, and sense of exclusivity is on the forums. BMW is in the money making business and if someone willing to pay for the car they are going to get them one (obviously excluding limited runs)

I'm torn between an m235i, m2, 435i w/ m performance, and m4 and to be honest i think i have the toughest time justifying the m2. If i go new i typically lease which is horrible for m2, if i buy i try to get same or 1 year old model year which isnt an option for the m2. You can get a 89k msrp m4 for 63k or a 52k m235i for 38k-40k. Why would we think that the m2 is not going to follow the same path of availability and resale depreciation. Isnt it fair to assume the m235i and the m4 or good basis of comparison. So wouldnt it be fair to think these cars will be sellign under msrp and avialable on the used market within 6-12 months?

With the m2 release the m235i has got to take a hit in terms of resale and i dont see the m4 going much into the 30k mark even 5 years from now.

those of you that ordered and have paid what other cars did you consider? or you buying because you have concluded its the perfect car for you or because of another reason like perceived value down the road. FYI...this car is for the wife to daily drive and me to have fun with when i want.
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      04-07-2016, 03:37 PM   #2
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I emailed all those dealers. 10 were spoke for, one had a 10K mark up and the other a 6K mark up. I emailed about 50 dealers in the past week and only found a total of 2 without a mark up, both are gone, one is mine and the other went to another member here.
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      04-07-2016, 03:46 PM   #3
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You should get the m235i.
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      04-07-2016, 03:50 PM   #4
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You should get the m235i.
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      04-07-2016, 04:14 PM   #5
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Msmall143, I'm sure you may get at least a hundred different reasons why an M2 but here's mine. I currently own a 13 370Z, 6mt sport and really enjoy that car. But I want my next car to seat 4, retain very sporty driving characteristics, have a 6mt trans and be rwd. There really isn't much options for me based on my criteria.

I have a friend who let me drive his M235i and while it is a very nice car, it was a little too soft for my taste. I also frequently park next to an M4 in my office building and the size difference between my Z is (best Donald Trump voice) "huge". My fun driving involves tighter mountain/valley roads in Honolulu and not too much highway miles, thus the Z is perfect for me, except that now I'd like two back seats. I feel that the M2 with it's smaller footprint than the M4 and stiffer chassis than the M235i will suit what I'm looking for perfectly.
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      04-07-2016, 04:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloha Joe View Post
Msmall143, I'm sure you may get at least a hundred different reasons why an M2 but here's mine. I currently own a 13 370Z, 6mt sport and really enjoy that car. But I want my next car to seat 4, retain very sporty driving characteristics, have a 6mt trans and be rwd. There really isn't much options for me based on my criteria.

I have a friend who let me drive his M235i and while it is a very nice car, it was a little too soft for my taste. I also frequently park next to an M4 in my office building and the size difference between my Z is (best Donald Trump voice) "huge". My fun driving involves tighter mountain/valley roads in Honolulu and not too much highway miles, thus the Z is perfect for me, except that now I'd like two back seats. I feel that the M2 with it's smaller footprint than the M4 and stiffer chassis than the M235i will suit what I'm looking for perfectly.
interesting. my wife has a mercedes roadster now and part of the reason we are looking is because of interior space. if the current price point of the m2 wasnt so far from the m235 and so close to the m4 i think it would be an easy decision.

I kind of have the below numbers in mind
m235i - 40k (used)
435i w/ m package - 45k (Used)
m2 - 57k
m4 60-63k (2015 under 15k miles)
audi rs5 - 50k

i guess the problem is that i'm comparing used to new. i'm lucky to have time, her lease is up in october but mileage overage is fast approaching. plus im inpatient and want what i want
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      04-07-2016, 04:54 PM   #7
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Personally, I am not sure I understand seriously considering both an M235i and an M4. I've driven both, and they are much different machines offering much different driving experiences. It ain't all about the bucks.

M2 vs. M4, well, that's a different matter, at least on paper. I look forward to finding out personally whether that paper translates to the road, but early returns are promising.
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      04-07-2016, 05:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
Personally, I am not sure I understand seriously considering both an M235i and an M4. I've driven both, and they are much different machines offering much different driving experiences. It ain't all about the bucks.

M2 vs. M4, well, that's a different matter, at least on paper. I look forward to finding out personally whether that paper translates to the road, but early returns are promising.
its do to the price. i think you have to consider it when a used 235 is almost 20k less than an m2. does the m2 justify a 20k premium over a used 235i. and if you were going to spend 57k would you pay a 3k premium to get into an m4. id likelly find a 235 with some dinan add ons. i'm not looking to buy the cheapest or most expensive however i do like value. but the value angle is always going to lean towards used and the m2 isnt an option

what was your take on the m235 vs m4 given you have driven both?
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      04-07-2016, 05:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmall143 View Post
interesting. my wife has a mercedes roadster now and part of the reason we are looking is because of interior space. if the current price point of the m2 wasnt so far from the m235 and so close to the m4 i think it would be an easy decision.

I kind of have the below numbers in mind
m235i - 40k (used)
435i w/ m package - 45k (Used)
m2 - 57k
m4 60-63k (2015 under 15k miles)
audi rs5 - 50k

i guess the problem is that i'm comparing used to new. i'm lucky to have time, her lease is up in october but mileage overage is fast approaching. plus im inpatient and want what i want
Your m4 for that price will have to be a stripper and have higher miles. If your looking at an m4 there are really good incentives on the new ones.

the m235i will be a great steal in the future. the m2 will kill its price. I would wait you will be able to get one for an amazing price.

for me the reason I went with the m2. I prefer manual rear wheel drive cars. I am obviously partial to bmw. Coming from an e92 m3 it was great but they just continue to get bigger and bigger. The m4 was great but it was even bigger then my m3. This car will outperform my m3, have better gas mileage and be the size I like. I also have an old e46 330ci. The m2 is a nice middle between the two cars.

also to the value point you could spec a m235i to be close to the m2 and it would cost more. The 2015 Cayman S I drove was really nice but I feel like it wasn't 67k nice...

also ps if your looking at the rs5 go for the e92 m3 instead.
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      04-07-2016, 05:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmall143 View Post
its do to the price. i think you have to consider it when a used 235 is almost 20k less than an m2. does the m2 justify a 20k premium over a used 235i. and if you were going to spend 57k would you pay a 3k premium to get into an m4. id likelly find a 235 with some dinan add ons. i'm not looking to buy the cheapest or most expensive however i do like value. but the value angle is always going to lean towards used and the m2 isnt an option

what was your take on the m235 vs m4 given you have driven both?
But you started your post with, "I'm a car guy" and for us other car guys and gals the M2 is a drivers car. One which can be used as a daily driver and a track car. Cost of a car, for me anyway, isn't really the issue. For me it has to do with the pure thrill of a drivers car and the visceral emotion it brings.
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      04-07-2016, 05:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2PILOT View Post
But you started your post with, "I'm a car guy" and for us other car guys and gals the M2 is a drivers car. One which can be used as a daily driver and a track car. Cost of a car, for me anyway, isn't really the issue. For me it has to do with the pure thrill of a drivers car and the visceral emotion it brings.

car guys still look at price tags and alternatives and weigh the pros and cons of spending more or less. if money were no object i think many of us wouldnt be driving these cars. i'd probably be buying a 911 turbo s. i'm also into motorcycles owning several bikes including the s1000rr. the 20k is absolutely a factor because it can be spent elsewhere....like another bike. I may chose to spend it or may not, thats what i'm deciding.

look back at the original m235 posts. you'll see the phrase "drivers car" come up a lot. i think you may get push back from m235 and m4 owners when you state they are not a drivers car.
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      04-07-2016, 05:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmall143 View Post
car guys still look at price tags and alternatives and weigh the pros and cons of spending more or less. if money were no object i think many of us wouldnt be driving these cars. i'd probably be buying a 911 turbo s. i'm also into motorcycles owning several bikes including the s1000rr. the 20k is absolutely a factor because it can be spent elsewhere....like another bike. I may chose to spend it or may not, thats what i'm deciding.

look back at the original m235 posts. you'll see the phrase "drivers car" come up a lot. i think you may get push back from m235 and m4 owners when you state they are not a drivers car.
I can appreciate the cost savings as it factors into any purchase, I never said the m235i or the M4 were not drivers cars. What I did say was that the M2 was a drivers car.
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      04-07-2016, 05:48 PM   #13
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You come into an M2 subforum and basically say that you don't see a point in purchasing a new M2 (as it's overhyped) when you can get an M235 or M4. What did you think was going to happen? Your initial post was almost asking us to convince you the M2 is good enough.

Every car has its pros and cons including price tags. The only preowned car that I cross shopped was a 991. Otherwise, I was comparing a new M235 to M2. It was a no brainer for me. With a car like the M2 available, why would I get an M235 and wish I had the M? Also, I think most of us are purchasing the M2 so the lease numbers aren't a huge factor in that regard.
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      04-07-2016, 06:37 PM   #14
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      04-07-2016, 07:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmall143 View Post
...

i guess the problem is that i'm comparing used to new.

...
You said it yourself! There is no $20K difference between a brand new M235i and M2. In fact, similarly equipped M235i costs more than M2 (including LSD etc.).
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      04-07-2016, 07:33 PM   #16
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I can only compare the M2's hype and status to that of the Porsche GT4 when it came out and the M2 will have alot lower production numbers considering.

If you look at both cars one targets the upper echelon of affordability (GT4) and the other targets almost mass market entry level sportscar affordability (M2). Both are cars that were overly desired by fans of both marques.

In 1 year of deliveries Porsche has delivered almost 1400 GT4's into North America (per GT4 registry). How many M2's do you think will land here this year? Not nearly as many. Additionally, the GT4 had listings all over Autotrader etc. and all of a sudden dealers started making markups...same thing is happening on the M2 already.

GT4's are $30k over right now and although I don't see the M2 getting near the same increase...they will be hard to get.

Secondly, my dealer(s) have sold out all 2016 AND 2017 allocations and still have waiting lists well into what will be the actual year of 2017.

Clearly the M2 isn't the GT4 but seeing as it targets an even wider population demographic and is already hyped up to the max....yeah I guess you're right they will be dime a dozen in a few weeks. LOL LOL LOL LOL

Next...
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      04-07-2016, 08:50 PM   #17
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For a "car guy" you talk waaay too much about resale value. I honestly don't care if my M2 holds its value the same or better than an M4 or M235i. I am buying it to drive it!

If you are looking for a car to hold value, buy someone's used 1M. If you are looking for a clearance sale, buy a used M235i.
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      04-07-2016, 09:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cole3488 View Post
Your m4 for that price will have to be a stripper and have higher miles. If your looking at an m4 there are really good incentives on the new ones.

the m235i will be a great steal in the future. the m2 will kill its price. I would wait you will be able to get one for an amazing price.

for me the reason I went with the m2. I prefer manual rear wheel drive cars. I am obviously partial to bmw. Coming from an e92 m3 it was great but they just continue to get bigger and bigger. The m4 was great but it was even bigger then my m3. This car will outperform my m3, have better gas mileage and be the size I like. I also have an old e46 330ci. The m2 is a nice middle between the two cars.

also to the value point you could spec a m235i to be close to the m2 and it would cost more. The 2015 Cayman S I drove was really nice but I feel like it wasn't 67k nice...

also ps if your looking at the rs5 go for the e92 m3 instead.
m4 is actually pretty well equipped. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...7664/overview/

completely agree on the cayman s and rs5 seems to be the least interesing of the options. i also dorve the jaguar f type and wasnt impressed with fit and finish.
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      04-07-2016, 09:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmall143
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
Personally, I am not sure I understand seriously considering both an M235i and an M4. I've driven both, and they are much different machines offering much different driving experiences. It ain't all about the bucks.

M2 vs. M4, well, that's a different matter, at least on paper. I look forward to finding out personally whether that paper translates to the road, but early returns are promising.
its do to the price. i think you have to consider it when a used 235 is almost 20k less than an m2. does the m2 justify a 20k premium over a used 235i. and if you were going to spend 57k would you pay a 3k premium to get into an m4. id likelly find a 235 with some dinan add ons. i'm not looking to buy the cheapest or most expensive however i do like value. but the value angle is always going to lean towards used and the m2 isnt an option

what was your take on the m235 vs m4 given you have driven both?
Ok, I paid 45K on my 2013 335i and 65K on my M3, does the car is 20K more?!

HELLLLL YEHHHHHHHH!!!!!

The F M3 got balls, suspension, exterior beauty and a Carbon Fiber roof

Not to mention that the interior, seats, gages, leather, CF trim does not compare to my previous 335i

With that said, the M2 should be in the same page.
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      04-07-2016, 09:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenose-1er View Post
For a "car guy" you talk waaay too much about resale value. I honestly don't care if my M2 holds its value the same or better than an M4 or M235i. I am buying it to drive it!

If you are looking for a car to hold value, buy someone's used 1M. If you are looking for a clearance sale, buy a used M235i.
not to get all personal, but my wife (who the car is for) is 32 but has stage 4 breast cancer. Resale value has to be a consideration in case she dies and i then have to sell her or my vehicle. so its a balance of making sure she is happy and has some nicer things in a shortened life, but mitigating my financial risk for when the inevitable happens.

the purpose of my post was to understand how people evaluated the options they had. i'm curious from all angles not just price but also performance, size, etc. lets face it, m235i, m2, m4....there isnt a bad choice in the mix. im just curious how others came to the conclusion of the m2 when there are some interesting alternatives.
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      04-07-2016, 09:49 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmall143 View Post
not to get all personal, but my wife (who the car is for) is 32 but has stage 4 breast cancer. Resale value has to be a consideration in case she dies and i then have to sell her or my vehicle. so its a balance of making sure she is happy and has some nicer things in a shortened life, but mitigating my financial risk for when the inevitable happens.

the purpose of my post was to understand how people evaluated the options they had. i'm curious from all angles not just price but also performance, size, etc. lets face it, m235i, m2, m4....there isnt a bad choice in the mix. im just curious how others came to the conclusion of the m2 when there are some interesting alternatives.
Sorry to hear that... and I see where you are coming from.

Where I am coming from is that for me it doesn't come down to an investment, it is about the fun and performance that I believe the M2 will bring. It is the perfect balance of luxury, prestige and performance (for me). There are other cars that have more of one or two of those factors - but it hits the sweet spot of all three.

I love my 135i and it has been my favourite car of all I have owned through the years... and the M2 seems to be more on every aspect from that, so I am confident I will be very happy!

If you are looking for the why... that is the why for me
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      04-07-2016, 10:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmall143 View Post
not to get all personal, but my wife (who the car is for) is 32 but has stage 4 breast cancer. Resale value has to be a consideration in case she dies and i then have to sell her or my vehicle. so its a balance of making sure she is happy and has some nicer things in a shortened life, but mitigating my financial risk for when the inevitable happens.

the purpose of my post was to understand how people evaluated the options they had. i'm curious from all angles not just price but also performance, size, etc. lets face it, m235i, m2, m4....there isnt a bad choice in the mix. im just curious how others came to the conclusion of the m2 when there are some interesting alternatives.
Very sorry to hear that. I think you're going to take a pretty big hit on depreciation if you buy any new 50K+ car, regardless of what brand it is. So if resale is a real consideration then I would look for a CPO vehicle. However, my understanding is that current residuals on the M3/4 are pretty amazing, and so leasing a new one may not be a bad idea financially.
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