[cptcrunch]

Dealership ordered the 4th urea tank about 2 months ago and i took the car in last week to have it installed. The dealership was told to replace the faulty temp sensor first, it is triggering the SES light, instead of the new tank. They replaced the temp sensor but the car was still reading an error. So they unplugged the sensor and the car was still reading the temp sensor.

SA called me and said they are stumped, opened a PUMA case and talking with the Regional Engineering Tech. No ETA and BMWNA does not want to put a new tank in yet (they are paying for the full repair, as I am out of warranty at 63k and have had many tank problems during ownership), and instead wants to figure out why this car is eating tanks.

Regional Tech is pointing to a new DME since the computer is reading the sensor even though its unplugged. All I know is that I miss the torque, but little 2016 228i loaner isn't half bad.

This will be my last round of tanks as I just ordered a 340i for European Delivery in April. Will be sad to see the 335d go, but the tank/urea system has me done with the car.

[taibanl]

[Whitbread]

Since you're in a free state, it could've been fixed long ago and made the car infinitely more enjoyable. A ride in a tuned one and you'll never go back to a gasser.

[Quasimodem]

ask to keep the removed parts and sell on ebay. As Is of course.

[Jarek@JRAuto]

Originally Posted by cptcrunch

Dealership ordered the 4th urea tank about 2 months ago and i took the car in last week to have it installed. The dealership was told to replace the faulty temp sensor first, it is triggering the SES light, instead of the new tank. They replaced the temp sensor but the car was still reading an error. So they unplugged the sensor and the car was still reading the temp sensor.

SA called me and said they are stumped, opened a PUMA case and talking with the Regional Engineering Tech. No ETA and BMWNA does not want to put a new tank in yet (they are paying for the full repair, as I am out of warranty at 63k and have had many tank problems during ownership), and instead wants to figure out why this car is eating tanks.

Regional Tech is pointing to a new DME since the computer is reading the sensor even though its unplugged. All I know is that I miss the torque, but little 2016 228i loaner isn't half bad.

This will be my last round of tanks as I just ordered a 340i for European Delivery in April. Will be sad to see the 335d go, but the tank/urea system has me done with the car.

Can you provide me with more diagnosis report from BMW - if your problem is the same as I experienced a few times especially on X5 than it is a software issue not hardware - even dealer update the ECU to the newest level the problem will be still there - we can fix it without deleting anything from the software.

[dixy2k]

This story make me think twice about taking the car to an indy for a tank fix. I don't doubt the shops level of competence, but I don't want to create a headache for them (any myself) when things go sour after the replacement.

BMW doesn't like to cooperate with independent shops and will probably tell them to send it to the nearest dealer.

OP
why would you get another BMW?

[cptcrunch]

Originally Posted by Whitbread

Since you're in a free state, it could've been fixed long ago and made the car infinitely more enjoyable. A ride in a tuned one and you'll never go back to a gasser.

I definitely thought about it, but am not super comfortable doing all of the work myself. I looked over the threads/posts and feel more comfortable leaving it alone and letting BMWNA pay for the repairs.

Originally Posted by rudzielec

Can you provide me with more diagnosis report from BMW - if your problem is the same as I experienced a few times especially on X5 than it is a software issue not hardware - even dealer update the ECU to the newest level the problem will be still there - we can fix it without deleting anything from the software.

It definitely sounds like a software problem. Still no word back from the dealership as to a fix. When I do get my car back, I'll try and get everything and send it your way.

Originally Posted by dixy2k

This story make me think twice about taking the car to an indy for a tank fix. I don't doubt the shops level of competence, but I don't want to create a headache for them (any myself) when things go sour after the replacement.

BMW doesn't like to cooperate with independent shops and will probably tell them to send it to the nearest dealer.

OP
why would you get another BMW?

The tank has definitely been a problem with the car, and I'm not sure any Indys would be able to fix it. And realistically, its not been the tank all 3 times, but the temperature sensor. Tank seems to be holding up fine, but the temp sensor keeps shorting and going to an 'open' state, causing the SES. I did see a post where someone fixed their temp sensor and I would consider going that route if BMWNA was not going to pay for the repairs.

One local Indy thinks they could work on the tank/urea/scr system, but they would be doing a lot of guessing (their words) before figuring it out.

Why another BMW? BMWNA has been good to me, paying for all tank repairs outside of the 48/50k warranty. My D has been a great car, fun to drive, fuel efficient and reliable (tank not withstanding). I've become very familiar with BMWs during my ownership and with how BMWNA has treated me, I feel that a new BMW is a good move. Had BMW not covered the tank or given me any grief over the problems, I would definitely be switching manufacturers.

My local dealership has been great; working with BMWNA directly and getting the tanks (p+l) covered with no fuss. Which is interesting because I didn't buy my D from them, so they are not really invested in me as a customer. But, because of how well they have taken care of my car in and out of warranty, I bought my new 340i through them. You treat me right, and I'll stick with you even if there are problems.

[dixy2k]

I was thinking about the 340i but there are a few things you cannot get even as an option on any 3 or 4 series.
Then I thought I don't want to reward BMW for bad engineering.
I am not loyal to any brand.

[Quasimodem]

Originally Posted by dixy2k

I was thinking about the 340i but there are a few things you cannot get even as an option on any 3 or 4 series.
Then I thought I don't want to reward BMW for bad engineering.
I am not loyal to any brand.

It seems like the emissions system was not designed by the same people who designed the engine or the rest of the car.

[cptcrunch]

Update: I reminded myself yesterday (see new thread) that I haven't updated this post from last time. Sorry about that

The dealership tried to troubleshoot themselves and quickly got into trouble. They read the ecu and saw the code for bad temperature sensor. They read the temperature sensor and it was reading 100F over ambient. So they reset the car's computers and the sensor was still reading 100F high. So they disconnected the temperature sensor from the car. Instead of the car saying 'hey there is no temperature sensor here' and giving an error, it still saw the sensor and it was still reading 100F over ambient. So they thought it might be a bad ECU, but didn't have the authorization to replace it.

The regional tech was brought in and tried a few things. He tried to update the car's software, which all that did was reset all of my coding (windows up, welcome lights, etc). He then tried to just replace just the temperature sensor, which I didn't think was possible, and that too failed. So finally BMWNA authorized another tank replacement. They installed the new tank about 2.5 weeks after I first dropped it off.

The new tank is reading correctly and so far is good. But I suspect next winter it'll fail like clockwork, but that will be on the new owner (sorry).

If anyone wants a copy of the work order let me know and I can scan it in.

[Twilight1]

I went through three tanks in 30,000 miles. I've had five BMWs and that will be the last.

[kbsilver]

Originally Posted by Twilight1

I went through three tanks in 30,000 miles. I've had five BMWs and that will be the last.

At 76K miles I'm still on my original tank. But then my whole SCR system has not worked in about 25K miles (no longer consumes DEF). It finally popped on the SES for a DEF level sensor issue. My guess is the DEF is now years old and is crystallizing. I suspect this will result in a new DEF tanks, and probably much more (extended warranty - no worries).

Even with the issues, this is still the best overall car we've ever owned and has never left us stranded.

[Twilight1]

Originally Posted by kbsilver

At 76K miles I'm still on my original tank. But then my whole SCR system has not worked in about 25K miles (no longer consumes DEF). It finally popped on the SES for a DEF level sensor issue. My guess is the DEF is now years old and is crystallizing. I suspect this will result in a new DEF tanks, and probably much more (extended warranty - no worries).

Even with the issues, this is still the best overall car we've ever owned and has never left us stranded.

Mine never left me stranded. It did go into limp mode twice in the middle of winter with my wife driving. Left is too short for that kind of crap.

[Whitbread]

Originally Posted by Twilight1

I went through three tanks in 30,000 miles. I've had five BMWs and that will be the last.

Since you're in Michigan as well, go for a ride in mine and I think you'll change your mind. As easy as it is to permanently fix the reliability issues on these cars, I don't understand why many are still so hesitant.

[davegris]

That is all it takes to fix the temp sensor in the urea tank. Well, that and about 2.5 hours of my time. A BMW shop or indy should be able to do this much quicker than I did.

I drove my car for more than 25K miles before I finally decided to fix it myself as I am way past warranty with more than 109K miles.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1209238

The post noted above has saved me gobs of cash and is a great example of the good things on this forum.

I cannot believe BMW is still biting the bullet on replacing all of these DEF tanks under warranty when it can be fixed with a $4 part.

I certainly would not let the $4 fix be the reason I got rid of my D. Next time I will probably go for ABC delete with water/meth.

[335dsleeper]

Originally Posted by kbsilver

At 76K miles I'm still on my original tank. But then my whole SCR system has not worked in about 25K miles (no longer consumes DEF). It finally popped on the SES for a DEF level sensor issue. My guess is the DEF is now years old and is crystallizing. I suspect this will result in a new DEF tanks, and probably much more (extended warranty - no worries).

Even with the issues, this is still the best overall car we've ever owned and has never left us stranded.

You might want to fix that def tank before it leaves you stranded.

[kbsilver]

Originally Posted by 335dsleeper

You might want to fix that def tank before it leaves you stranded.

DEF system hasn't worked in well over a year. Zero operational issues. Never gives the 'XXX miles to no start' (anymore). Planning on getting it fixed next month. I have a long list of items to be done (some warranty, some pay) and I expect they will have the car a good part of a week. As my dealer of choice is nearly an hour away, I make my service visits efficient.

[davegris]

Hey kbsilver, mine was the same way as in no def usage or messages for way over a year. I think the code for the temp sensor being bad was pre-empting any other messaging. The temp sensor being bad kept the DEF from spraying so no DEF usage and there were no 'nnn miles to no start messages'.

The only reason I really fixed it is because I was tired of looking at the SES light.

[kbsilver]

Originally Posted by davegris

Hey kbsilver, mine was the same way as in no def usage or messages for way over a year. I think the code for the temp sensor being bad was pre-empting any other messaging.

First answer that makes sense as to what's happening. But I never had an SES light until very recently, for a DEF level sensor issue, not temp. But now that I have the SES, the dealer cannot say there is nothing wrong as they have every time in the past when I say it's not using DEF.

[Twilight1]

Originally Posted by Whitbread

Since you're in Michigan as well, go for a ride in mine and I think you'll change your mind. As easy as it is to permanently fix the reliability issues on these cars, I don't understand why many are still so hesitant.

I appreciate the offer but to me, re-engineering the emission system might be easy for you but not me. I also, now have a reliable DD, that would smoke my BMW with the JBD. I love the sound of a well tuned gas motor and the diesel has none of that. To each, their own. I've had to have a lot of diesels in my business and if I don't have to smell raw diesel fuel again, it would be too soon.

[Whitbread]

Originally Posted by Twilight1

I appreciate the offer but to me, re-engineering the emission system might be easy for you but not me. I also, now have a reliable DD, that would smoke my BMW with the JBD. I love the sound of a well tuned gas motor and the diesel has none of that. To each, their own. I've had to have a lot of diesels in my business and if I don't have to smell raw diesel fuel again, it would be too soon.

All it takes is dropping it off to the right place and picking it up a few days later . I don't know if you've ever heard one of these but they don't sound much like a diesel at all once uncorked. Sounds like a turbo bmw six that shifts a hare low. With nothing more than a tune and w/m, you can run 12.5's and get 40 mpg on the freeway. I added a MagnaFlow high flow diesel cat to a customers uncorked 335d and it took care of the pickup truck diesel smell and took a few Db's off with no noticeable decrease in performance.

[335D Alpha Pappa]

Can someone with a new tank that was replaced within the last 6 months check for the purging sound when you shut the engine off? I do not hear that pump noise with the new tank. Is it because BMW changed to a quieter pump or does it not purge the line anymore? My tank has been in for only 2 weeks.

And I just got the 999 miles no start warning. Maybe the dealership did not refill the DEF tank to capacity when it was replaced. I will add DEF later.

This car is such a Diva.