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      10-15-2015, 01:56 PM   #1
KGB_123_99
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Aisin transmission performance

Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the transmission in the new X1 to the ZF8? How is the programming and shift speeds?
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      10-15-2015, 05:12 PM   #2
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I'm afraid its inferior just by comparing official BMW data for both, the ZF8 usually is rated faster than manual while using less fuel.
The Aisin however is exactly the opposite, its rated slower than manual and is using more fuel.

(comparing german versions as you guys won't have the manual in the X1 as far as I know)

However after watching some reviews some say its fast and smooth and shifts at the right time to the right gear, so it can't be that bad.

Last edited by Ganxxta; 10-16-2015 at 02:32 PM..
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      10-15-2015, 08:37 PM   #3
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Aisin is Japanese and ZF is German, right?
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      10-16-2015, 08:32 PM   #4
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Yup
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      10-17-2015, 10:02 AM   #5
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Are there any American transmissions manufacturers?
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      10-17-2015, 02:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganxxta View Post
I'm afraid its inferior just by comparing official BMW data for both, the ZF8 usually is rated faster than manual while using less fuel.
The Aisin however is exactly the opposite, its rated slower than manual and is using more fuel.

(comparing german versions as you guys won't have the manual in the X1 as far as I know)
Autos aren't really better than manuals for fuel economy or for performance. It's just that things can be arranged to make them look that way. A typical way to make an auto look better than the manual on the same car is to give it slightly lower overall gear ratios than the manual in the first few gears to improve initial acceleration, and higher ratios in the top gear or two to give it better fuel consumption at motorway speeds. Then it appears to be better on both measures. That, of course, leaves a larger gap (step) in the gear ratios somewhere, which harms acceleration in the upper speed ranges, but as nobody ever quotes figures in that range, few people notice. This is how my 550i auto is configured compared to the manual. The new X1, on the other hand, appears to use the same overall gearing for both manual and auto, so no flattery is taking place.

As for the new X1, in German spec:

- the 0-100 km time is identical for manual and auto on the sDrive18i, the sDrive 18d, and the xDrive 20d;
- the top speed is identical for manual and auto on the sDrive 18d and the xDrive 20d;
- the fuel consumption is identical for manual and auto on the xDrive 18d and the xDrive 20d.

- while the auto performs a little worse than the manual in a few other cases. But viewed altogether, the differences are not significant enough to justify your claim that the Aisin is worse than the ZF.
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      10-17-2015, 02:47 PM   #7
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The sDrive 18i will get a 6 Speed Auto, so no comparison to the ZF8 possible, maybe due to less gears it will be lighter which might help the overall package.

The xDrive 20d has a rated fuel consumption of 4.9l against 4.8l in the manual

But in general you are right that it should not be worse than the manual, also considering that with auto there is additional weight.

I didn't get the opportunity to drive one myself yet, however the ZF8 that I have is pretty good I must say.
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      10-17-2015, 03:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganxxta View Post
The xDrive 20d has a rated fuel consumption of 4.9l against 4.8l in the manual
Not in the German X1 brochure it doesn't.

Verbrauch, Kombiniert:

manual: 5,1 - 4,9
auto: 5,1 - 4,9
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      10-17-2015, 04:02 PM   #9
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https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/deuts...hmentId=331820

Page 67
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      10-17-2015, 04:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganxxta View Post
Then I suggest (since you are in Germany and I am not) you tell BMW that the fuel consumption figures in the German price list contradict those in the German brochure. Perhaps they have caught a little touch of VW disease?
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      10-17-2015, 07:45 PM   #11
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Haha might be

The European fuel consumption figures are totally unrealistic anyway, so 0.1l more or less doesn't matter much. The only indication that this list shows for the 20d is that the auto uses less in the city and more on the highway than the manual (which is weird, since 8 gears should have at least 1 overdrive extra long gear ratio for highway speeds compared to the 6 speed manual).

Next week is the official premiere at my dealer so I want to try to have a test drive in the X1 to be able to compare it to the ZF8 in my F32.
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      10-17-2015, 08:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganxxta View Post
Next week is the official premiere at my dealer so I want to try to have a test drive in the X1 to be able to compare it to the ZF8 in my F32.
I am not much concerned about fuel consumption either: if I were, I wouldn't drive a 550i.

But please do let us know what you think of the quality of the gearbox after you have tried it.
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      10-27-2015, 01:35 AM   #13
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Having test driven the X1 xDrive20d with this transmission, and because I currently own a F20 M135i with the ZF8AT, I can confirm the Aisin transmission is very smooth, and changes rapidly. I didn't test it as a high performance auto, as per the ZF, because the X1 isn't that sort of car, but I reckon most owners will be very satisfied with the Aisin.
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      10-27-2015, 01:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttimbo View Post
Having test driven the X1 xDrive20d with this transmission, and because I currently own a F20 M135i with the ZF8AT, I can confirm the Aisin transmission is very smooth, and changes rapidly. I didn't test it as a high performance auto, as per the ZF, because the X1 isn't that sort of car, but I reckon most owners will be very satisfied with the Aisin.
I too drove that model this week and I agree entirely with your view. (I'm not so keen on the steering or the road noise, though.)
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      11-13-2015, 05:49 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttimbo View Post
Having test driven the X1 xDrive20d with this transmission, and because I currently own a F20 M135i with the ZF8AT, I can confirm the Aisin transmission is very smooth, and changes rapidly. I didn't test it as a high performance auto, as per the ZF, because the X1 isn't that sort of car, but I reckon most owners will be very satisfied with the Aisin.
I agree.
However, given the choice, i'd pick the ZF.
It's more "reliable" and changes a tad faster imo, but it's a close race.
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      11-16-2015, 12:16 AM   #16
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Yesterday, I had the opportunity to drive the new 3 series 330 back to back with the X1, both with auto transmissions.

I felt the Aisin actually had smoother shifts that were just as fast as the ZF, including when using the paddles; they're both great A/Ts, I reckon.

As to reliability, it's a bit too early to tell, as the Aisin has only been in use since 2013, but it does have a fairly wide range of automotive customers in addition to BMW: Chevrolet; Lexus: Toyota: Volvo, to name a few.
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      11-16-2015, 01:34 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttimbo View Post
As to reliability, it's a bit too early to tell, as the Aisin has only been in use since 2013, but it does have a fairly wide range of automotive customers in addition to BMW: Chevrolet; Lexus: Toyota: Volvo, to name a few.
Other types of Aisin transmissions have been used in Porsches too, so their transmissions can't be that bad.

FWIW, I doubt 95% of drivers would be able to tell any difference in real-world driving between the ZF and the Aisin.
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      11-16-2015, 03:04 AM   #18
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I was quite happy and impressed with the Aisin 8AT on my test drives. I think without back to back drives with a ZF car it would be hard to tell the difference. The Aisin is way ahead of my Merc's slow, clunky and dumb 7G-DCT. My only gripe with the X1 gearbox is having a mechanical shifter rather than an electronic one. I reckon since Toyota and Lexus are using this gearbox it can't be too bad, given their brands' reputation for reliability.
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      11-16-2015, 03:34 AM   #19
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Yes, Aisin has been around for a good while, with units including its longitudinal 8AT in a number of high performance cars. Lexus/Toyota is renown for its supply chain rigor, so I'm not worried. The physical shifter (vs ZF electronic) is something you'll notice only if you have another car with electronic shifter.
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      07-07-2019, 10:58 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganxxta View Post
Haha might be

The European fuel consumption figures are totally unrealistic anyway, so 0.1l more or less doesn't matter much. The only indication that this list shows for the 20d is that the auto uses less in the city and more on the highway than the manual (which is weird, since 8 gears should have at least 1 overdrive extra long gear ratio for highway speeds compared to the 6 speed manual).
It is actually pretty conservative in fuel consumption figures for at least the US spec x28i. The official is 31 mpg highway, I am getting 35 mpg consistently. On light traffic and at moderate cruise speed, it is getting 38 mpg. There's no manual here so I have nothing to compare it to.
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      07-08-2019, 03:13 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagler View Post
Can anyone confirm which 8 speed auto will be in my newly ordered x1 2ltr Petrol m sport AWD Please, Aisin or ZF, transverse or Longitudinal.
It will be the Aisin, in transverse configuration. The ZF 8AT is not fitted to any F48 X1 model
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      07-08-2019, 03:17 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00max00 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganxxta View Post
Haha might be

The European fuel consumption figures are totally unrealistic anyway, so 0.1l more or less doesn't matter much. The only indication that this list shows for the 20d is that the auto uses less in the city and more on the highway than the manual (which is weird, since 8 gears should have at least 1 overdrive extra long gear ratio for highway speeds compared to the 6 speed manual).
It is actually pretty conservative in fuel consumption figures for at least the US spec x28i. The official is 31 mpg highway, I am getting 35 mpg consistently. On light traffic and at moderate cruise speed, it is getting 38 mpg. There's no manual here so I have nothing to compare it to.
Over nearly 60,000km, our X1 25i AWD (same as 28i in US model designation) has averaged 8.2L/100km
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