[AdmiralGant]

Hi,

Its time to replace the main car and after two years in a Golf GTD DSG I have decided to come back to a 3 series. My last was a 325d M Sport Auto (3.0 litre 204 hp).

I am down to a 320i, 320d or a 330d - M Sport trim and autobox is already decided upon.

Is it correct that the 320i now has twin exhaust tailpipes ? I know the 330d has but not the 320d. The one round pipe looks a bit feeble, considering even most fast cheap hatches have two.

Was more interested in whether X drive is worth while and if stretching to a 330d is worth it (330d will cost me about £70 month extra). The car will be through my company car scheme and with X drive costing me personally an extra £30 a month.

I live out in the sticks, so would the extra traction be noticed and welcomed? Or do you really not notice much difference on a 320i/d? I get the impression on the forum that in snow it makes little difference and winter tyres are better. I also have a small 4x4 so if we get snow I can use that.

Am I better saving £30 a month? However what about on a 330d? Is it better on that and a good investment given 260 hp is going to just the rear wheels?

Couple of other questions - with manual seats, do you still have to lift your body weight using the seat height adjuster, or do BMW now fit a sensible system, just an extra £26 a month for electric seats seems steep!

Adaptive dampers/suspension - £14 extra a month - is it worth having or is it bit of a gimmick and rarely gets used. I have it on the Golf with comfort/normal/sport settings, comfort is like a boat, sport jars my bones, normal is a winner.

Finally speakers - have upgraded in the past, had the HK system in a previous 325i and was not exactly great, had loud speaker upgrade in the 325d and that was ok for me. Can I assume the standard 6 speaker system is still awful ?? Is the loud speaker upgrade ok or better to just go for the HK?

Many Thanks

[Tengocity]

Yes the xdrive traction in wet is much better if you like to press on, but i'd take 330d sdrive over a 320d xdrive any day of the week.

But I really don't like 4 cylinder diesels very much, and in the 3 series it seems especially noticeable. The 30d engine is a peach and the auto is standard.

standard stereo is truly crap, so worthwhile looking at the M Sport + pack which includes the HK stereo amongst other worthwhile extras.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Welcome to the forum.

Okay, first off ignore totally the 320i.

Even with 2 pipes majority of modern baby hatches will spank it (Fiesta, Clio, Peugeot etc).

Personally best option is the 330d Sdrive.

The HK is definitely better than the standard audio.

For electric seats, how many drivers? If just you manual is fine, if more than you, then electric.

You need adaptive lighting

You need heated seats


Are you limited to specific dealers with your company car scheme?

If not, they are a couple of dealers that do very good deals.

[k44ENT]

Personally I'd rule the 320i out and if you don't work where the weather is extreme then I'd stick with s-drive. As for adaptive dampers, I have them now and didn't have them before. Yes they make a difference and allow the car to be a comfy cruiser when needed. The standard m-sport set up is by no means bad but if you did go x drive then adaptive is a must. Depending on mileage I would go either 330d or 330i m-sport with m sport +, adaptive and heated seats as a minimum and if on a PCP adaptive lights as they are all but free.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by k44ENT

Personally I'd rule the 320i out and if you don't work where the weather is extreme then I'd stick with s-drive. As for adaptive dampers, I have them now and didn't have them before. Yes they make a difference and allow the car to be a comfy cruiser when needed. The standard m-sport set up is by no means bad but if you did go x drive then adaptive is a must. Depending on mileage I would go either 330d or 330i m-sport with m sport +, adaptive and heated seats as a minimum and if on a PCP adaptive lights as they are all but free.

Adaptive headlights are now only available with the Icon Adaptive LED headlights, which are far from free!

[k44ENT]

Originally Posted by teaston

Adaptive headlights are now only available with the Icon Adaptive LED headlights, which are far from free!

Arr yes, forgot about the LCI changes, they used to be effectively a no cost option on PCP as the GFV went up.

[teaston]

30d is definitely worth £70pm if you can afford it, and if you appreciate much more power and a much smoother, quieter & refined engine.

Xdrive just weighs the car down & decreases fuel economy and steering feel. And if you do drive in snow then you should still put winter tyres on anyway as 4wd does nothing to help stopping distances & lateral grip.

[davyk31]

Beware of the wallowey Xdrive SE suspension if you like good handling unless you want to modify your company car by fitting ACS springs. That will add a bit more to the Xdrive v Sdrive financial equation.

As above ignore the 320i and D and head straight for a 6 pot. If you want Xdrive you want a 335d for the little extra, if you are happy with RWD then its the 330d S Drive for you. The 330d Xdrive doesn't make much sense to me.

[AdmiralGant]

Thank you for the replies. My company chooses the dealer so I am stuck with that.

Heated seats were also a must have. Appreciate your points on the 320i. I have not had a petrol engine for 9 years, so I guess the 320i needs plenty of revs to get the best out of it and the mpg would rarely hit 35.

Yes I also have two drivers, so accept the electric seats are much better than the shuffling around needed to raise and lower the seat. Pity they don't do the partial electric option which I had on the last 325d, which was far cheaper.

I can stretch to the 330d as long as it does over 30mpg on average. I use to get 37mpg from the 3.0 litre 325d, so assume it won't be far off that, and that had the older 6 speed auto box.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by AdmiralGant

Thank you for the replies. My company chooses the dealer so I am stuck with that.

Heated seats were also a must have. Appreciate your points on the 320i. I have not had a petrol engine for 9 years, so I guess the 320i needs plenty of revs to get the best out of it and the mpg would rarely hit 35.

Yes I also have two drivers, so accept the electric seats are much better than the shuffling around needed to raise and lower the seat. Pity they don't do the partial electric option which I had on the last 325d, which was far cheaper.

I can stretch to the 330d as long as it does over 30mpg on average. I use to get 37mpg from the 3.0 litre 325d, so assume it won't be far off that, and that had the older 6 speed auto box.

I am pretty heavy on the accelerator and i average 38mpg with no motorway driving in my 330d.

[NISFAN]

OP in your situation I would go 330d sDrive non adaptive. HK is nice to have, but not a deal breaker to me.

My preference overall regardless of the finances is sDrive, it's a BMW after all. Some will tell you it will be a handful in the wet.....but handily enough BMW fitted this thing called a throttle pedal.......and if you drive within the limits of the car/ conditions ( which includes steering and braking, both of which the xDrive are worse at by the way) you'll be fine.

Also my preference is non adaptive suspension. The setting sit somewhere in the middle between the two setting of the adaptive. The perfect place to be .....and in any case, the adaptive settings are not that far apart from each other.

I thought 320d now had twin pipes too?

Do not consider 320i.....nice enough car but not when you consider the alternatives you listed. 320i xDrive would be 3 series hell to me.

[k44ENT]

One thing about adaptive is that it is adaptive and is not just a button that switches between two levels of damper firmness. It is constantly altering the damping rates from sensors built into the car, the switch (comfort - sport - sport +) just alters the envelope which it works in. For me the icing on the cake is being able to drive to work on a poorly concrete surfaced A road and then down a poorly surfaced B road in relative comfort as well as being able to flick to sport mode on the better roads for improved body control and a sports car like feel. The same route in my previously passively damped car and every thing was a compromise albeit a good one. I have also experienced less body roll with adaptive in both mode vs my passively damped M-sport F31.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by k44ENT

One thing about adaptive is that it is adaptive and is not just a button that switches between two levels of damper firmness. It is constantly altering the damping rates from sensors built into the car, the switch (comfort - sport - sport +) just alters the envelope which it works in. For me the icing on the cake is being able to drive to work on a poorly concrete surfaced A road and then down a poorly surfaced B road in relative comfort as well as being able to flick to sport mode on the better roads for improved body control and a sports car like feel. The same route in my previously passively damped car and every thing was a compromise albeit a good one. I have also experienced less body roll with adaptive in both mode vs my passively damped M-sport F31.

Haven't you gone from pre LCI to LCI though? LCI's biggest changes have been to the suspension, so not sure you're comparing apples to apples?

[teaston]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Haven't you gone from pre LCI to LCI though? LCI's biggest changes have been to the suspension, so not sure you're comparing apples to apples?

No his is pre LCI, just. It has the revised subframe and the 5 bolt strut mounts, but the old springs and dampers apparently.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by teaston

No his is pre LCI, just. It has the revised subframe and the 5 bolt strut mounts, but the old springs and dampers apparently.

Ok, well I'm reading his corner roll is reduced in both modes. That must be down to differences in suspension/ roll bar rates?

[teaston]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Ok, well I'm reading his corner roll is reduced in both modes. That must be down to differences in suspension/ roll bar rates?

This is something we've been trying to work out!

So would you say adaptive comfort has more body roll than non adaptive (without ACS springs or Bilstein coilovers of course).

[ukbeemerboy]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

OP in your situation I would go 330d sDrive non adaptive. HK is nice to have, but not a deal breaker to me.

My preference overall regardless of the finances is sDrive, it's a BMW after all. Some will tell you it will be a handful in the wet.....but handily enough BMW fitted this thing called a throttle pedal.......and if you drive within the limits of the car/ conditions ( which includes steering and braking, both of which the xDrive are worse at by the way) you'll be fine.

Also my preference is non adaptive suspension. The setting sit somewhere in the middle between the two setting of the adaptive. The perfect place to be .....and in any case, the adaptive settings are not that far apart from each other.

I thought 320d now had twin pipes too?

Do not consider 320i.....nice enough car but not when you consider the alternatives you listed. 320i xDrive would be 3 series hell to me.

Well said and I echo everything here. Traction issues only come about if your too heavy footed and in addition to the throttle pedal, they also fitted traction control so win win.

320d does now come with twin tail pipes.

I average 39 mpg from my 330d over 6k miles. Mixed driving.

Adaptive dampers aren't for me. I forget about the drive mode button leaving it in comfort nearly all the time. Wind the straight six up, and you'll quickly be the wrong side of 100mph

[WeaverBeaver]

Agree 330d sdrive probably sweet spot for you.

xDrive decision depends on how much you value great traction in the dry and wet, which in this country and living where you live could be very handy. Yes it weighs a bit more and very slightly blunts rolling performance, but it feels rwd and most negative comments are very biased and overblown. Even Jethro Bovingdon of EVO recommends it - just saying....but whether that's worth 30 quid a month plus cost of adaptive (essential with xdrive) is debateable.

Also stretch for a 6 cylinder if you can. But if you do go 4 cylinder echo others comments to avoid 320i, 320d is pretty quick and lots more economical, better resale value too. Also as others say pretty sure new LCI 320d has 2 tailpipes.

For me pro nav, heated seats, upgraded headlights are essentials. Electric seats not worth it if only you driving.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by teaston

This is something we've been trying to work out!

So would you say adaptive comfort has more body roll than non adaptive (without ACS springs or Bilstein coilovers of course).

Technically speaking....on a track....damper rates have next to zero influence on roll amount. They only influence roll rates ( speed of the roll progression)....mid corner the car will settle to where springs and roll bars dictate. However on quick direction changes you might experience on the street....roundabout for example, stiffer damping might disguise roll as you don't get to a full 'settle' before you turn the other way.

Even with the Bilstein coil overs, my car probably rolls as much as it ever did......I'd need stiffer ARB to dial that out.

Moving off topic, but in summary I wouldn't pay any extra for adaptive. Any driver getting used to their car would not miss some of the more subtle options. VSS, adaptive suspension, 19" wheels, mSport brakes, etc. Non of these are night and day.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Technically speaking....on a track....damper rates have next to zero influence on roll amount. They only influence roll rates ( speed of the roll progression)....mid corner the car will settle to where springs and roll bars dictate. However on quick direction changes you might experience on the street....roundabout for example, stiffer damping might disguise roll as you don't get to a full 'settle' before you turn the other way.

Even with the Bilstein coil overs, my car probably rolls as much as it ever did......I'd need stiffer ARB to dial that out.

Moving off topic, but in summary I wouldn't pay any extra for adaptive. Any driver getting used to their car would not miss some of the more subtle options. VSS, adaptive suspension, 19" wheels, mSport brakes, etc. Non of these are night and day.

Surely the higher spring rates on the Bilsteins reduces the roll amount?

K44ent is adamant that his current adaptive 328i F31 rolls far less than his previous passive F31 328i, which i find it hard to believe is because of the subframe or top mount bolts so surely it's because of adaptive?

[k44ENT]

Originally Posted by teaston

Surely the higher spring rates on the Bilsteins reduces the roll amount?

K44ent is adamant that his current adaptive 328i F31 rolls far less than his previous passive F31 328i, which i find it hard to believe is because of the subframe or top mount bolts so surely it's because of adaptive?

It's not just me but the missus has commented on how it leans far less especially on one particular roundabout coming off the A50 near Uttoxeter. I always drive in comfort mode with her in the car as it dulls the throttle response and I don't get moaned at for booting it. I also took my father out the other day and without prompting he commented how nice the ride was on a particular bad part of the A50 which has a broken concrete surface. The new car has the same size wheels but different tyres which do make slightly less noise but can't see them making all of the differences I experience in terms of comfort and body control. If i'm being very very critical I think the rear is a little soft on the adaptive car in comfort mode compared to m-sport passively damped car, it doesn't feel bad but in some instances such as going over a level crossing at speed I notice it and think mmm, it would be better if the rear was a little firmer. It certainly doesn't feel soft at the rear round bends though. I don't profess to be a racing driver or anything but I am a car enthusiast and Mechanical Engineer by trade so tend to have an understanding of whats going on under the vehicle. Anyone who knows me will vouch for my hyper critical nature (of cars) and being a perfectionist which isn't always a good thing.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by k44ENT

It's not just me but the missus has commented on how it leans far less especially on one particular roundabout coming off the A50 near Uttoxeter. I always drive in comfort mode with her in the car as it dulls the throttle response and I don't get moaned at for booting it. I also took my father out the other day and without prompting he commented how nice the ride was on a particular bad part of the A50 which has a broken concrete surface. The new car has the same size wheels but different tyres which do make slightly less noise but can't see them making all of the differences I experience in terms of comfort and body control. If i'm being very very critical I think the rear is a little soft on the adaptive car in comfort mode compared to m-sport passively damped car, it doesn't feel bad but in some instances such as going over a level crossing at speed I notice it and think mmm, it would be better if the rear was a little firmer. It certainly doesn't feel soft at the rear round bends though. I don't profess to be a racing driver or anything but I am a car enthusiast and Mechanical Engineer by trade so tend to have an understanding of whats going on under the vehicle. Anyone who knows me will vouch for my hypre critical nature (of cars) and being a perfectionist which isn't always a good thing.

That makes sense actually, it feels soft when going over the level crossing as it's comfort mode, then when cornering it adapts and stiffens up! Sounds like it's doing exactly what it's supposed to.