[RacrX]

I've seen a few posts on the 245 square setup being ideal for the F30. Why would that be better than than a 245F/265R setup? Seems to me the larger contact patch in the rear would be beneficial.

[drob23]

The staggered setup actually makes the car understeer more. Additionally you can rotate tires front to back, or even cross rotate if they aren't directional. This spreads the wear more evenly and allows you to get more life from the tires.

Unless you are running a 911 or corvette, I don't think you *need* the additional rubber in the back. It's great for drag racing, and looks really cool, but most track rats want a square setup. The M3 guys seem to go with larger fronts to match large rears. Not sure if you have the fenders to do that. Wider tires are also more $$$.

[RacrX]

Thanks Drob. While I've got you, are you in the Michelin PSS or the Potenza RE-11 camp for the track?

And would I go 245/35/19 or 245/40/19 or something else?

[drob23]

Originally Posted by RacrX

Thanks Drob. While I've got you, are you in the Michelin PSS or the Potenza RE-11 camp for the track?

And would I go 245/35/19 or 245/40/19 or something else?

For the first question - I'd say get the Bridgestone tire, better yet, get the RE71R! The PSS is a fantastic street tire, treadwear of 300, but it gets very greasy on track. Temperature stability is poor.

About the tire size, I don't own an F30 so I can't give you the best advice. Ideally, run something that is cheaper and meets the load rating. The shorter sidewall should be less compliant and make steering more direct. Smaller rolling circumference will make the gearing shorter and probably make the car accelerate better.

[ICTZHP]

I've been collecting components for my F30 335i MSport in preparation for the fall BMWCCA HPDE at Hallett over Labor Day weekend. In the tire department, I went with 245/35/19's and got the RE11's. I bought Apex wheels as part of the group buy last spring and wound up going with 19's . I debated about 18's vs 19's, but found conflicting information about fitment. Since it was a group buy, I wasn't going to risk buying 18's and not having them fit over my M Performance brake setup with a no return policy. The biggest down side that I discovered with having 19's vs 18's is the selection of tires. The RE11's were the only XL rated tire in the 245/35/19 size in the extreme performance category on Tire Rack. You can step down a performance category and find more selection, but that wasn't what I wanted.

I will be busy this weekend finishing up the installation of my parts collection. I've already installed the braided brake lines and swapped out for higher temp fluid. I need to install the camber plates and swap out the brake pads. Cannot wait for Saturday the 5th to try it all out. Should be a lot of fun!

[RacrX]

Originally Posted by ICTZHP

I've been collecting components for my F30 335i MSport in preparation for the fall BMWCCA HPDE at Hallett over Labor Day weekend. In the tire department, I went with 245/35/19's and got the RE11's. I bought Apex wheels as part of the group buy last spring and wound up going with 19's . I debated about 18's vs 19's, but found conflicting information about fitment. Since it was a group buy, I wasn't going to risk buying 18's and not having them fit over my M Performance brake setup with a no return policy. The biggest down side that I discovered with having 19's vs 18's is the selection of tires. The RE11's were the only XL rated tire in the 245/35/19 size in the extreme performance category on Tire Rack. You can step down a performance category and find more selection, but that wasn't what I wanted.

I will be busy this weekend finishing up the installation of my parts collection. I've already installed the braided brake lines and swapped out for higher temp fluid. I need to install the camber plates and swap out the brake pads. Cannot wait for Saturday the 5th to try it all out. Should be a lot of fun!

Cool! What's your suspension setup?

[ICTZHP]

Originally Posted by RacrX

Cool! What's your suspension setup?

Since my cars are daily drivers and I don't want to lower them for clearance concerns, I try to keep the suspension as close to factory as possible. My F30 has the M sport suspension with the DHP package. I am adding camber plates simply to extend the life of the tires. The camber plates are Ground Control touring. I resisted adding camber plates on my E46 ZHP only to chew through a set of front BFG Rivals way too quickly. With the camber plates installed, the outside edge of the front tires doesn't take near the beating.

The other changes that I mentioned were the Apex wheels, RE11's (I am running square), and track focused pads (Porterfield R4's all around) and fluid (the pads and fluid, to me, are safety items). The braided brake lines look nice, but I cannot say that I've noticed any difference in brake feel due to them. The car has less than 30,000 miles, so the factory lines are still pretty fresh.

The one additional thing that I would like to change is the sway bars to stiffen up the roll, but that will wait for another day.

So, what's your setup?

[RacrX]

Originally Posted by ICTZHP

Since my cars are daily drivers and I don't want to lower them for clearance concerns, I try to keep the suspension as close to factory as possible. My F30 has the M sport suspension with the DHP package. I am adding camber plates simply to extend the life of the tires. The camber plates are Ground Control touring. I resisted adding camber plates on my E46 ZHP only to chew through a set of front BFG Rivals way too quickly. With the camber plates installed, the outside edge of the front tires doesn't take near the beating.

The other changes that I mentioned were the Apex wheels, RE11's (I am running square), and track focused pads (Porterfield R4's all around) and fluid (the pads and fluid, to me, are safety items). The braided brake lines look nice, but I cannot say that I've noticed any difference in brake feel due to them. The car has less than 30,000 miles, so the factory lines are still pretty fresh.

The one additional thing that I would like to change is the sway bars to stiffen up the roll, but that will wait for another day.

So, what's your setup?

Just stock M sport so far, I've only had the car since last month. Seriously considering coilovers (probably BC racing) for handling, a slight drop over stock, and the ability to adjust for daily or track use. I'll probably do tires first, square setup probably with the RE-11s as well but also considering Advans, Pole Positions, Direzzas and PSSs...will do a bit more research between now and then. Will go with EBC Yellowstuff pads, I've had good luck with them in the past, and Motul fluid.

I originally wanted to do sway bars, but they're just too expensive with install. Thinking about a strut tower brace as well, it's worth a shot for the money.

I'd love to hear more about the camber plates, my tech was suggesting the GCs...aside from saving your tires, how do they affect handling on the track?

[ICTZHP]

Originally Posted by RacrX

Just stock M sport so far, I've only had the car since last month. Seriously considering coilovers (probably BC racing) for handling, a slight drop over stock, and the ability to adjust for daily or track use. I'll probably do tires first, square setup probably with the RE-11s as well but also considering Advans, Pole Positions, Direzzas and PSSs...will do a bit more research between now and then. Will go with EBC Yellowstuff pads, I've had good luck with them in the past, and Motul fluid.

I originally wanted to do sway bars, but they're just too expensive with install. Thinking about a strut tower brace as well, it's worth a shot for the money.

I'd love to hear more about the camber plates, my tech was suggesting the GCs...aside from saving your tires, how do they affect handling on the track?

Sounds like you have a good plan in place. You are correct, the sway bars are pricey, especially if you pay for the install. I would do my own, but everything that I have read on them says that the install is involved since the sway bars sit above the sub frame. I'm not sure why BMW thought that was a good idea. I will have to see how the car does at the track before I commit to that project.

On the camber plates, my information will be from autocrossing my E46 ZHP. I purchased a set of 17" E46 sport rims, which are staggered, for autocross and track duty. I ran the car in autocrosses prior to the camber plates and was reasonably happy with the handling, but not tire wear, as I noted. When I finally installed the camber plates, it really balanced the car's handling giving a nice balance of over/under steer (pushed hard enough and/or ham fisted enough, I could induce either, but driven well, it is nicely balanced). Of course, auto crossing is a different animal compared to track driving, and I didn't track the car prior to the camber plate install. When I did take the car to the track, I really liked the balance. What I didn't like was the roll. So, I wound up installing H&R sway bars, front and rear. These really firmed the car up in roll. It's amazing how much roll there was, even though I didn't realize it at first. The nice thing about sway bars is that they don't really show up in normal, daily driving, but really shine in sporting situations.

So, all of these experiences brought me to where I am with the F30. I decided that a square setup would be better (I can rotate the tires to even out the wear and reduce under steer) and that camber plates were a necessity. I will have to see on the sway bars. I would feel more confident tackling them if there were a Bentley Manual (or equivalent) available. The Ground Control camber plates seem like quality pieces. From what I've read and discussed with them, the ones I purchased are their most up to date version. Earlier F30 plates (at least one, if not two iterations) had issues that you can find threads about. I have been very happy with the ones for my E46 and I'm sure I will be happy with these going forward. Now I just need to get in the garage and install them.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by ICTZHP

Sounds like you have a good plan in place. You are correct, the sway bars are pricey, especially if you pay for the install. I would do my own, but everything that I have read on them says that the install is involved since the sway bars sit above the sub frame. I'm not sure why BMW thought that was a good idea. I will have to see how the car does at the track before I commit to that project.

On the camber plates, my information will be from autocrossing my E46 ZHP. I purchased a set of 17" E46 sport rims, which are staggered, for autocross and track duty. I ran the car in autocrosses prior to the camber plates and was reasonably happy with the handling, but not tire wear, as I noted. When I finally installed the camber plates, it really balanced the car's handling giving a nice balance of over/under steer (pushed hard enough and/or ham fisted enough, I could induce either, but driven well, it is nicely balanced). Of course, auto crossing is a different animal compared to track driving, and I didn't track the car prior to the camber plate install. When I did take the car to the track, I really liked the balance. What I didn't like was the roll. So, I wound up installing H&R sway bars, front and rear. These really firmed the car up in roll. It's amazing how much roll there was, even though I didn't realize it at first. The nice thing about sway bars is that they don't really show up in normal, daily driving, but really shine in sporting situations.

So, all of these experiences brought me to where I am with the F30. I decided that a square setup would be better (I can rotate the tires to even out the wear and reduce under steer) and that camber plates were a necessity. I will have to see on the sway bars. I would feel more confident tackling them if there were a Bentley Manual (or equivalent) available. The Ground Control camber plates seem like quality pieces. From what I've read and discussed with them, the ones I purchased are their most up to date version. Earlier F30 plates (at least one, if not two iterations) had issues that you can find threads about. I have been very happy with the ones for my E46 and I'm sure I will be happy with these going forward. Now I just need to get in the garage and install them.

That's not entirely true.

The stiffer sway bars are, the more linked the left and right suspension components are which negates the point of "independent" suspension.

If the sway bars are stiff enough, ride quality would end up suffering on bumpy, pot-hole ridden roads.

As for the F30 RWD, there's a reason why if you have the Sport or M Sport trim, the M Performance Suspension does not require you to replace your sway bars.

[drob23]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

That's not entirely true.

The stiffer sway bars are, the more linked the left and right suspension components are which negates the point of "independent" suspension.

If the sway bars are stiff enough, ride quality would end up suffering on bumpy, pot-hole ridden roads.

As for the F30 RWD, there's a reason why if you have the Sport or M Sport trim, the M Performance Suspension does not require you to replace your sway bars.

In my opinion, if you go to the length of replacing the sway bars to make your car handle better on track, then you probably will be fine with the small trade off to on-road comfort. Just steer around those pot holes

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by drob23

In my opinion, if you go to the length of replacing the sway bars to make your car handle better on track, then you probably will be fine with the small trade off to on-road comfort. Just steer around those pot holes

Right. But my point about BMW's M Performance Suspension kit suggests that from a track perspective, the weak point in the F30 Sport Suspension is not enough spring/dampening rather than roll bar stiffness. However, the Standard Suspension requires the Sport Suspension roll bars for the M Performance Suspension kit.

Tires are the most important. Spring/shock or coilovers are your next bang for the buck improvement.

[nicknaz]

OP, I'd go with RE-11. I switched my M3 from PSS to RE11 just the other day due to the greasiness of PSS at the track. PSS are a great street commuter tire but not my choice for a track tire

I'd go 245 front 265 rear instead of 245 square to get more traction on corner exit

[RacrX]

Thanks!

[utenigma]

OP, I'm going to advise against the RE-11's

I had them for a season and there's just better tires out there for the money. The RE-11's didn't have the heat tolerance of other tires in the bunch

Since then I've had Hankook RS3's and Federal 595 RS-R's

The Hankook's have amazing heat tolerance, wear well (for UTQG 200 tires) and stick like glue - I would buy them again

Currently I have the Federal 595 RS-R's on the car - They're relatively new and a little hard to find (google for them and you'll find a supplier) but they're CHEAP (as in ~$600 a set instead of $1200). I read good things about them and figured hell for half price I'd give them a shot. Verdict - they're great tires. They're every bit as sticky as the Hankooks were (maybe even a little stickier), they tolerate the heat just as well. They are wearing a touch faster than the Hankook's did (I track tire wear in an excel spreadsheet because I'm like that) but at half price who cares. Downside is they're currently rated as UTQG160 tires - which if you compete in SCCA autocross is currently considered a R compound tire and puts you outside of street and street touring. Hopefully Federal will do what the other tire manufacturers did 2 years ago and start stamping them 200 to deal with the regulation change. Other down side, they make a little annoying noise when cruising ~30-45 miles an hour - above that and below that they behave. It seems to have gotten better as the tread has worn down.

Now for tires I haven't driven - mentioned above the Bridgestone RE-71R - it will be the next tire I put on my car. They're pricy (but basically in-line with the other competitors) but they are the hands down stand out grip leader of the UTQG200 tires. One of my friends did a back to back test at one of our autocrosses swapping between the RE-71R and his Hoosier A6's (basically the stickiest rubber on the planet) and the 71R's were only 1 second slower on a 50 second track. I am sold - price be damned

As to fitment - I have H&R sport springs and use Apex Arc-8 18x9 wheels with ET42.
I run a 3mm spacer in the front and run 265/35R18's on all 4 corners - yes they fit, no they don't rub.

Square is defiantly the way to go for performance and for tire life - your rears will wear the inner band and the fronts will wear the outer shoulder - rotating them front to back gets you a lot of extra life - also flipping the tires on the rims at about the half-way point gets you more life as well because the inner shoulder is relatively un-abused.

[utenigma]

If anybody's interested this is his data from those runs

[RacrX]

Federal tires...hm, anyone else using these?

[RacrX]

What do we think about the Nitto NT05?

[E30toF30]

Anyone else try these federal 595?

Im starting to look for tires for the coming season. I'm looking for tires for a dedicated set track wheels (apex arc-8 in 8.5x18 square) . Utenigma's review is making them a very attractive option at around $520 shipped for a set.

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by E30toF30

Anyone else try these federal 595?

Im starting to look for tires for the coming season. I'm looking for tires for a dedicated set track wheels (apex arc-8 in 8.5x18 square) . Utenigma's review is making them a very attractive option at around $520 shipped for a set.

I just posted a set of arc-8's. http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1226643

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

OP, I'd go with RE-11. I switched my M3 from PSS to RE11 just the other day due to the greasiness of PSS at the track. PSS are a great street commuter tire but not my choice for a track tire

+1 on the PSS being greasy. I've run NT05's and Z2 Star Specs. Out of the three PSS were the worst. For some reason the used and abused NT05's were slower than new Z2's

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by utenigma

OP, I'm going to advise against the RE-11's

I had them for a season and there's just better tires out there for the money. The RE-11's didn't have the heat tolerance of other tires in the bunch

That's a fair point. There are many other tires in that class, and I haven't tried them all.

I've used PSS, Kumho MX, Azenis RT615, Dunlop ZII and RE11 at the track on a variety of cars, and I liked the ZII and RE11 the best.

I got the RE11 for my F80 due to sizing they came in, and would have gotten RE71R or Rival if the sizing worked out

I was at chuckwallar this weekend and RE11 held up well. Wear was fine and they lasted for 25 minutes (only starting to get greasy at end of the session). Others with stock F80 had PSS and the outer sidewall was toast just from the weekend.