[///Mobbin]

I recently came across a few 228i weight data points that really intrigued me.

First, was from the GSR Autosport 228i track build out thread. Apparently GSR acquired a very base if not completely base 228i and it weighed in at an astonishing 3091 lbs with 1/2 a tank of fuel. That number is mind bogglingly low considering I've heard everyone throw around 3500lbs as the m235i number. Now granted that may be accurate for a semi-loaded or loaded m235i but I am planning for an M2 build that's very close to base, which has me wondering what a fairly base m235i would actually weigh in at. I haven't found a weigh-in thread for one yet. This also has me wondering, what is the weight difference between the 228i and m235i engines? Is it really close to ~250lbs? That can't be right. There may be some additional engine cooling componentry and some additional oil and coolant capacity for the bigger engine, I just can't imagine the weight difference being quite that high.

Then here is another thread where a 228i weighed in at 3260 lbs with a few options. Still a very light car.

Bottom line, I think a base M2 may actually be lighter than we've been estimating.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

I recently came across a few 228i weight data points that really intrigued me.

First, was from the GSR Autosport 228i track build out thread. Apparently GSR acquired a very base if not completely base 228i and it weighed in at an astonishing 3091 lbs with 1/2 a tank of fuel. That number is mind bogglingly low considering I've heard everyone throw around 3500lbs as the m235i number. Now granted that may be accurate for a semi-loaded or loaded m235i but I am planning for an M2 build that's very close to base, which has me wondering what a fairly base m235i would actually weigh in at. I haven't found a weigh-in thread for one yet. This also has me wondering, what is the weight difference between the 228i and m235i engines? Is it really close to ~250lbs? That can't be right. There may be some additional engine cooling componentry and some additional oil and coolant capacity for the bigger engine, I just can't imagine the weight difference being quite that high.

Then here is another thread where a 228i weighed in at 3260 lbs with a few options. Still a very light car.

Bottom line, I think a base M2 may actually be lighter than we've been estimating.

3100 lbs today is ok but not great. It's hard to say about the M2 because we don't have specs but the 1M was the predecessor and it's weight difference is not just engine. The 1M employed more aluminum parts that 135i and had a few less things. For example the 1M did not have a vanity light in visor which I only know because someone actually complained. The strut housings were aluminum whereas they were steel on 135i. There was no hood insulation and many of the Suspension pieces were aluminum. You could also order 1M with manual seats, no idrive no folding mirrors which made it the lightest, purest and most special version. That will not happen with M2. Idrive will be mandatory and possibly power seats which are again heavier. The 235i is too heavy for what it is. I hope the M2 will be available in enthusiast trim with no fluff and will be under 3300 lbs. you have to remember that the rear diff and bigger M Brakes add weight which is why it was remarkable how 1M weighed less that 135i despite the rear diff and heavy duty brakes and cooling.

[Steven1077]

Well if it follows along the lines of the M3/4 most stuff will be fitted as standard like electric leather seats so I'm thinking it will be close to the weight of an M235i, the base M4 actually weighs more than the 435i, don't be expecting some massive weight savings, this car is not going to be built like a 1M

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by nachob

3100 lbs today is ok but not great. It's hard to say about the M2 because we don't have specs but the 1M was the predecessor and it's weight difference is not just engine. The 1M employed more aluminum parts that 135i and had a few less things. For example the 1M did not have a vanity light in visor which I only know because someone actually complained. The strut housings were aluminum whereas they were steel on 135i. There was no hood insulation and many of the Suspension pieces were aluminum. You could also order 1M with manual seats, no idrive no folding mirrors which made it the lightest, purest and most special version. That will not happen with M2. Idrive will be mandatory and possibly power seats which are again heavier. The 235i is too heavy for what it is. I hope the M2 will be available in enthusiast trim with no fluff and will be under 3300 lbs. you have to remember that the rear diff and bigger M Brakes add weight which is why it was remarkable how 1M weighed less that 135i despite the rear diff and heavy duty brakes and cooling.

really? because I have a vanity light! perhaps I'm just too vain? lol

[nachob]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

really? because I have a vanity light! perhaps I'm just too vain? lol

Referring to drivers side. Maybe loaded 1M had iit. Mine didn't and someone complained about that.

[///Mobbin]

Here's some more food for thought. BMW lists a manual 228i Coupe's weight as 3295 lbs and the manual M235i Coupe's weight as 3505 lbs. If you make the assumption that the same amount of weight was added to the 228i as the m235i to account for likely chosen options (as I believe U.S. weight specifications require), then perhaps the difference in weights is the additional weight of the M235i's engine (and associated components). That would be 210 lbs difference between the two engines.

Perhaps this could be confirmed by the advertised weight distributions of the two cars (by someone smarter than myself). The 228i is listed as 50.4/49.6. And the M235i is listed as 51.9/48.1.

Then I am curious, would a base-base M235i weight just 210 lbs more than its counterpart base-base 228i? If so, it might weigh as little as 3301 lbs with 1/2 a tank of gas.

Now I know parts are being added to the M2 over the M235i but perhaps some of the parts being substituted will be lighter weight. Will we see a 3300-3350lb base-base M2? Perhaps not but one can hope!

[pruettfan]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

Here's some more food for thought. BMW lists a manual 228i Coupe's weight as 3295 lbs and the manual M235i Coupe's weight as 3505 lbs. If you make the assumption that the same amount of weight was added to the 228i as the m235i to account for likely chosen options (as I believe U.S. weight specifications require), then perhaps the difference in weights is the additional weight of the M235i's engine (and associated components). That would be 210 lbs difference between the two engines.

Perhaps this could be confirmed by the advertised weight distributions of the two cars (by someone smarter than myself). The 228i is listed as 50.4/49.6. And the M235i is listed as 51.9/48.1.

Then I am curious, would a base-base M235i weight just 210 lbs more than its counterpart base-base 228i? If so, it might weigh as little as 3301 lbs with 1/2 a tank of gas.

Now I know parts are being added to the M2 over the M235i but perhaps some of the parts being substituted will be lighter weight. Will we see a 3300-3350lb base-base M2? Perhaps not but one can hope!

Adding options doesn't add a whole lot of weight, perhaps the only exception being power seats versus mechanical. A lot of the weight discussions frustrate me a bit because the reality is with all of the safety requirements these days car manufacturers have a hard time even maintaining the weight from one model generation to the next. The feds keep adding more and more required safety which is a good thing but it runs counter to our desire for less weight. I think the use of carbon reinforced plastics will really be when we see meaningful weight differences. Time will tell if BMW can mass manufacturer cars using these new materials and still turn a profit. I think they will but as I have read about the industry the insurers hate the idea because of repair costs, believe it or not they have a ton of sway on what gets made.

[hyperzulu]

I'll see if I can pull together the data points I found for the engine weights. The difference was around 120lbs. between the N55 and the N20.

You can find the weight of the N20 on Wikipedia as 138kg.

Green Car Congress lists the N55 at 194kg which substantiates other reports of the N55 being slightly lighter than the N54, which is listed on Wikipedia as 195kg.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010...-20100117.html

So, the difference in the two engines is 127lbs. The two cars, 228i and M235i, are just so different in standard option content that the curb weights reported are not good values to use for comparison.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by pruettfan

Adding options doesn't add a whole lot of weight, perhaps the only exception being power seats versus mechanical. A lot of the weight discussions frustrate me a bit because the reality is with all of the safety requirements these days car manufacturers have a hard time even maintaining the weight from one model generation to the next. The feds keep adding more and more required safety which is a good thing but it runs counter to our desire for less weight. I think the use of carbon reinforced plastics will really be when we see meaningful weight differences. Time will tell if BMW can mass manufacturer cars using these new materials and still turn a profit. I think they will but as I have read about the industry the insurers hate the idea because of repair costs, believe it or not they have a ton of sway on what gets made.

I'm sorry but the feds are not to blame for weight gain, it is the consumer that demands more and more crap, fluff and features on the cars. They wiring harnesses are heavier to allow for more accessories, folding mirrors, seats, backup sensors, cameras, seat warmers, steering wheel warmers, nav, idrive, bigger heavier wheels, bigger/heavier brakes to stop and more motor to get it going. I know it's easier to blame THE MAN but that's not really the case. There were some initial weight gains some time back when they forced 5 mph bumpers, air bags and side crash protection, but since then, it's the market driving all the bloat and weight gain.

Also, you can get some information about weight by looking at engine weight, but as I said above, other components have different weights. A car with a lighter motor like the 228i will usually have lighter brakes, drive shaft,diff, etc. The differences are small but they add up, it's not just the engine. It gets even more complicated with M cars like the M2 because they will use aluminum suspension parts, etc. Even the enormous brakes on the 1M were heavy but cross drilled which saved a little bit of weight over the same size solid disk.

[undecided]

And that car doesn't have fancy CF or anything like that

[webbit]

Here is what I found, its in Kilograms

[2msport]

when converting to lbs, those numbers seem low...

[135iDCT]

don't forget the m2 will come with DCT and air to water cooling system, 4 tips muffler all will add weight, im sure the m2 will be heavier than the 235m not less than 100 lb

[SDKevin]

Originally Posted by 2msport

when converting to lbs, those numbers seem low...

One day we'll all use kilos! Just kidding, can't imagine what it would take for the US to manage that!

[Die ///M Rakete]

Originally Posted by 135iDCT

and air to water cooling system

From your mouth to God's ears.

[Twix]

Originally Posted by 135iDCT

don't forget the m2 will come with DCT and air to water cooling system, 4 tips muffler all will add weight, im sure the m2 will be heavier than the 235m not less than 100 lb

There's going to be a manual version offered. The exhaust will add maybe 30lbs, but I'm sure with a carbon roof, that weight will be negated.

I really hope this thing isn't the pig that the M235i is, because I'm putting all my eggs in this basket.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by Twix

There's going to be a manual version offered. The exhaust will add maybe 30lbs, but I'm sure with a carbon roof, that weight will be negated.

I really hope this thing isn't the pig that the M235i is, because I'm putting all my eggs in this basket.

Carbon roof has been ruled out from what I've read. Also it defeats the purpose of a lower cost M car. If they offer low option version you won't need carbon roof. Personally I like the the matching roof. Now if they offered a carbon roof painted to match that would be really cool. As far as water intercoolers that would be awesome but also doubt they will do that. They reduce lag due to less plumbing but then again if you want to track your car now you could easily swap current air to air units. Personally I hope they keep it simple a la 1M. Everything else is complicated already. 1M has proven that simplicity is cool.

[rudypMD]

Originally Posted by Twix

There's going to be a manual version offered. The exhaust will add maybe 30lbs, but I'm sure with a carbon roof, that weight will be negated.

I really hope this thing isn't the pig that the M235i is, because I'm putting all my eggs in this basket.

Was told by my dealer when i reserved my M2 spot, that they have confirmation that the car won't have the option of the carbon roof.

[tdizzle]

Originally Posted by 135iDCT

don't forget the m2 will come with DCT and air to water cooling system, 4 tips muffler all will add weight, im sure the m2 will be heavier than the 235m not less than 100 lb

what does that mean in comparison to the M4?

Would be a bit sad if the smaller car ends up weighing as much as 'big' brother.

[Twix]

The more I keep reading about this car, the less I seem to care about it.

If Dinan can add 55hp and 80 lbs-ft of torque for less than 2 grand, why would BMW spend all their R&D on the engine? Doesn't make any sense. The N55 can handle beaucoup more power without reliability issues.

It would make more sense if BMW would up the power moderately over the M235i and greatly lower the weight by using tech they've learned from the i8 and i3. Carbon. Lots of it. Make this thing light and agile, and less torque and burnouts.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by Twix

The more I keep reading about this car, the less I seem to care about it.

If Dinan can add 55hp and 80 lbs-ft of torque for less than 2 grand, why would BMW spend all their R&D on the engine? Doesn't make any sense. The N55 can handle beaucoup more power without reliability issues.

It would make more sense if BMW would up the power moderately over the M235i and greatly lower the weight by using tech they've learned from the i8 and i3. Carbon. Lots of it. Make this thing light and agile, and less torque and burnouts.

What exactly is there to get excited or depressed about? I haven't heard anything factual... we know the car has two doors, four exhaust pipes and a roundel. I take everything else with a grain of salt.

[chris82]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

What exactly is there to get excited or depressed about? I haven't heard anything factual... we know the car has two doors, four exhaust pipes and a roundel. I take everything else with a grain of salt.

Even thought BMW hasn't come out and said for certain what it will have, you can definitely assume aluminum suspension components, wider fenders/wheels/tires, LSD, improved steering and quicker steering ratio, stiffer subframe bushings, beefier front strut brace, stronger spindles, bigger brakes. I mean it's being marketed as a true M car after all, so they literally HAVE to have that stuff or face getting slammed by auto review magazines. Other than that, I'm not sure what the big deal is. I mean, look what they did with the 1M, it was basically an M3 in a 1 series chassis/body with a tuned N54 engine. You can expect the exact same from the M2. Hopefully they take out some sound insulation here and there to keep the weight down and to also make this thing a little more exciting. The current gen BMWs I've driven have been really boring iyam