[XplusYplusZ]

I know this has been a discussion point since the car's arrival, but I TRULY wish BMW would allow us to turn off the traction and still have sport engine responsiveness..
Has anyone approached BMW to see if they can code this?

[bimmercar]

Originally Posted by XplusYplusZ

I know this has been a discussion point since the car's arrival, but I TRULY wish BMW would allow us to turn off the traction and still have sport engine responsiveness..
Has anyone approached BMW to see if they can code this?

you could try a tune to get the "sport mode"

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by XplusYplusZ

I know this has been a discussion point since the car's arrival, but I TRULY wish BMW would allow us to turn off the traction and still have sport engine responsiveness..
Has anyone approached BMW to see if they can code this?

Not that I am aware of, and I am not quite sure why you would want this. The only time you're going to want to go DSC OFF is in a track situation, where having a more binary (read:sharper) throttle is not helpful -- it makes your inputs less precise and leads to poor throttle control.

I mean, to each his own, and I agree that BMW should have at least given us the option, but I am just curious as to why you (and others) would want this. That car doesn't get any faster or anything with the sharper throttle.

[Ramos]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

Not that I am aware of, and I am not quite sure why you would want this. The only time you're going to want to go DSC OFF is in a track situation, where having a more binary (read:sharper) throttle is not helpful -- it makes your inputs less precise and leads to poor throttle control.

I mean, to each his own, and I agree that BMW should have at least given us the option, but I am just curious as to why you (and others) would want this. That car doesn't get any faster or anything with the sharper throttle.

After my first track weekend in the M235, I agree with that 100%

[XplusYplusZ]

I do a bit of autocross with relatively low speeds, short, sharp accelerations and small radius turns. The DSC stifles the car too much - especially mid corner, and I'd prefer to have as much response to my inputs as possible.

I'd agree that there's probably a sweet spot for throttle response. But I think the 'sport' mode is closer to that.

[Cyberdemon]

I've done the BMW M school and all of the instructors agreed that having the throttle set to comfort was better on the cars because it is a linear throttle mapping and allows for precise modulation.

Consider the log graph as "Sport" throttle and the linear as comfort (eco pro being exponential where nothing happens till very deep in the pedal travel).



The same amount of power is always available to you, but with sport plus it comes on much sooner and as a result if you are trying to modulate between 80-90% throttle it is nearly impossible. That is where the limit of traction is so even though you can get on the power sooner with the sport mapping (which is why it feels so snappy when you just put your foot down a little bit) the same can be achieved by properly learning the throttle response on a linear scale.

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

I've done the BMW M school and all of the instructors agreed that having the throttle set to comfort was better on the cars because it is a linear throttle mapping and allows for precise modulation.

Consider the log graph as "Sport" throttle and the linear as comfort (eco pro being exponential where nothing happens till very deep in the pedal travel).



The same amount of power is always available to you, but with sport plus it comes on much sooner and as a result if you are trying to modulate between 80-90% throttle it is nearly impossible. That is where the limit of traction is so even though you can get on the power sooner with the sport mapping (which is why it feels so snappy when you just put your foot down a little bit) the same can be achieved by properly learning the throttle response on a linear scale.

+1, but I think you have your log and linear swapped...

[Silvermike]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

The only time you're going to want to go DSC OFF is in a track situation,

Oh really now?

im going to call rain "track situation" from now on.

...At first I was bummed out by this. It actually caught me by surprise the first time I noticed it while having some fun. I normally drive around in sport mode, so I was accustomed to the sharper throttle response.

But you are correct. the linear throttle is better to modulate. Once I got accustomed to it, I feel very in control of my throttle inputs while sideways.

[caycep]

Does DSC cut off power to one or more wheels if it is slipping?

[Roman G]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

The same amount of power is always available to you, but with sport plus it comes on much sooner and as a result if you are trying to modulate between 80-90% throttle it is nearly impossible. That is where the limit of traction is so even though you can get on the power sooner with the sport mapping (which is why it feels so snappy when you just put your foot down a little bit) the same can be achieved by properly learning the throttle response on a linear scale.

Just to clarify:

1. I was under impression that you get less power in comfort EVEN at WOT with kickdown vs SPORT, Maybe its just butt dyno but WOT in comfort definitely feels slower than WOT in SPORT.

2. Are you actually at wide open throttle right before the point of kickdown or are you say at 90-95% of throttle before the kickdown switch is pressed. Obviously the car is at 100% at kickdown.

3. I understand that boost psi remains the same and the only difference between ALL modes is how responsive the throttle is?

Thank You,

Roman

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Roman G

Just to clarify:

1. I was under impression that you get less power in comfort EVEN at WOT with kickdown vs SPORT, Maybe its just butt dyno but WOT in comfort definitely feels slower than WOT in SPORT.

2. Are you actually at wide open throttle right before the point of kickdown or are you say at 90-95% of throttle before the kickdown switch is pressed. Obviously the car is at 100% at kickdown.

3. I understand that boost psi remains the same and the only difference between ALL modes is how responsive the throttle is?

1. The car has the same amount of power regardless. The reason you won't feel that power by flooring the car in comfort is that more than likely traction control will intervene first, especially in low gears.

2. The car will hit 100% throttle at the point right before the kickdown. In the past people have actually made "kickdown blockers" that will let you easily hit 100% throttle without the kickdown. This was more desirable on modded cars that got better performance launching from 2nd gear, the kickdown would force the car into 1st. In practice if you are not feeling the kickdown switch you may not be WOT. If you get a cheap OBD cable and an app for your phone you could easily tell.

3. In sport, sport+ and DSCS off the shift timings on the automatic are more aggressive along with the throttle mapping which also contributes to the slower feeling in comfort. If you pull the AT stick to the left or shift with the paddles you will get the shifting back, or if you are using a MT that isn't part of the equation.

Someone did make a big chart of all the mode differences at one point if you do a search you should be able to find it.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

+1, but I think you have your log and linear swapped...

You're right - I didn't make that graph I just grabbed it off Google.

[Roman G]

thanks for clarifying.

And since we are talking acceleration which will go faster:

Mode: SPORT

Tranny moved to the left to "S" vs manually shifting with paddles.

I know the difference might be so minimal it may be inconsequential, just for the sake of the argument. Will I be able to bring the motor to higher revs by manually shifting with paddles or leaving it in S.

But then again highest revs with these motors are not the sweet spot anyway.

Roman

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Roman G

thanks for clarifying.

And since we are talking acceleration which will go faster:

Mode: SPORT

Tranny moved to the left to "S" vs manually shifting with paddles.

I know the difference might be so minimal it may be inconsequential, just for the sake of the argument. Will I be able to bring the motor to higher revs by manually shifting with paddles or leaving it in S.

But then again highest revs with these motors are not the sweet spot anyway.

Roman

Revving out the engine is not the best way to get the power out of this engine, but there is a lot to this topic.

This thread has a decent amount of discussion about the ways to improve acceleration, I don't think there are any guaranteed answers.

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1116608

Sport+ with the transmission pulled over into D/S is probably going to be your most consistent approach to getting fast acceleration.

[durangodoug]

Originally Posted by XplusYplusZ

I do a bit of autocross with relatively low speeds, short, sharp accelerations and small radius turns. The DSC stifles the car too much - especially mid corner, and I'd prefer to have as much response to my inputs as possible.

I'd agree that there's probably a sweet spot for throttle response. But I think the 'sport' mode is closer to that.

I completed my first autocross event last month in my 235. I had been driving the car on public roads in DSC OFF mode during the week to gauge the throttle response but decided to try SPORT + mode once at the event.

I know I need to try my next event in DSC OFF mode to get a better comparison, but I'd agree with XplusYplusZ on the throttle response. In SPORT + mode I noticed I had all the response and power I wanted coming out of turns, but it was a bit difficult to handle in the sweepers. I assume the sweeping turns are where your pedal control needs to be perfect in SPORT + because I had a few times where pressing the gas too early caused the car to want to swing out. However on my last run when I managed the pedal well in the sweepers I was able to punch out of the exit with no issue. I guess it depends on where/how you need the car to drive. I've seen other people on this forum say that DSC OFF is best for track days. But it seems on a smaller autocross course you'd want the extra responsiveness that comes with SPORT +.

Are we allowed to post videos or are links to the video better for this forum?

[Ramos]

I don't agree, I think it's essential in an Autocross to have all the nannies completely off to be able to slide the car around the course. Unlike a race track, some sideways is usually faster on an Autocross course.

That is the only application where it would be nice to in fact have the more sensitive throttle.

[th1rd3y3]

The Sport throttle is fun for putting around but I completely understand the reasoning for making the throttle linear with the nannies off. If you're turning them off, you want predictable and linear throttle input which will allow you much more control over the car with your right foot. Throttle modulation is key in track/autox situations where you don't want the computer interfering when someone experienced is behind the wheel. That is NOT what you get with Sport/Sport+.

[Cyberdemon]

It's not like the throttle mapping is keeping you from accessing that power, it's simply changing the distance your foot needs to move to access it. If you want more power put your foot down. The foot moves very quickly.

This is an old video but it's one that gives a good example of why having a very precise control of throttle modulation is key to going fast, and with a short and artificially sensitive throttle that doesn't really help. All of the BMW instructors agreed on that and I see their point, especially knowing I'll never be anywhere near as fast as any of them.

https://www.youtube.com/v/Uk2p2nRK-p4%26hl=en%26fs=1

[raisingAnarchy]

You can't just hold the DSC button for a few seconds to turn off TCS and DSC in any mode? You can only be in Sport+ if you want DSC off?

[th1rd3y3]

Originally Posted by raisingAnarchy

You can't just hold the DSC button for a few seconds to turn off TCS and DSC in any mode? You can only be in Sport+ if you want DSC off?

Yes you can, the OP has an issue with doing this which disables the hypersensitive throttle mapping.

[durangodoug]

I thought all nannies turned off above 31mph in SPORT + mode? I remember reading that on this forum. Like I said, at my next event I'm going to try DSC OFF mode and feel the difference.

[Ramos]

Originally Posted by durangodoug

I thought all nannies turned off above 31mph in SPORT + mode? I remember reading that on this forum. Like I said, at my next event I'm going to try DSC OFF mode and feel the difference.

No lol, don't know where you found that but it's definitely not true