[F8x M3 CS]

I want to firm up the handling of my 2011 e92 coupe. Car has 41k miles and its time to start upgrading. What are a few basic things I can do to make the car more firm and direct? I simply want to improve the handling and give it a more sporty feel in the twisties.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by E92 LCI

I want to firm up the handling of my 2011 e92 coupe. Car has 41k miles and its time to start upgrading. What are a few basic things I can do to make the car more firm and direct? I simply want to improve the handling and give it a more sporty feel in the twisties.

I thought the BMW Performance suspension and Vorshlag camber plates did a great job of tightening up the handling in my car initially with Pirelli P-Zero RFTs on 18" staggered BMW 216 rims.

Changing the front control arms to M3 parts and replacing the bushings in the LFCAs with a Bimmerworld spherical bearing, or equivalent, will further tighten up the steering making it more precise and responsive.

At that point rear subframe bushings would be called for as their limitations would become more obvious. Personally I recommend solid bushings but ymmv.

You might run into e-diff limitations at this point so an LSD would be a useful addition but a good one is really expensive. And diff bushings and mounts wouldn't be a bad idea at this point either. Again, I recommend solid ones but again ymmv.

M3 rear upper links and toe arms are an option eventually but not really called for unless you want to go toward a fully rigid link suspension in which case you'll need to have welded in the Bimmerworld inner swingarm spherical bearings, or equivalent. Then the dampers and springs will definitely be the limiting factor again.

It all depends on how much you're willing to sacrifice to improve your DD, I think.

[Jsoboti]

Upgraded front and rear anti sway bars. Many companies offer kits or you can purchase them separately. From what I understand the front makes the biggest difference and without a LSD the rear can actually become detrimental.

Either way, these are relatively easy to install ( the front is anyway) and do not require an alignment afterward so its a great upgrade IMHO.

[snaimpally]

Originally Posted by justpete

You might run into e-diff limitations at this point so an LSD would be a useful addition but a good one is really expensive.

An LSD is not really that expensive. Several vendors are offering LSDs in the $1300 ballpark. Considering what people spend on a new set of wheels and cosmetic upgrades, the LSD is not that expensive. Plus, when you consider that the LSD helps you get all of the torque on the ground, instead of having your wheels spin uselessly, its an upgrade where the results are immediate and noticeable.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by snaimpally

An LSD is not really that expensive. Several vendors are offering LSDs in the $1300 ballpark. Considering what people spend on a new set of wheels and cosmetic upgrades, the LSD is not that expensive. Plus, when you consider that the LSD helps you get all of the torque on the ground, instead of having your wheels spin uselessly, its an upgrade where the results are immediate and noticeable.

A quality clutch type LSD, Performance Gearing for instance, will cost close to three grand plus installation.

[cpie168]

Does anyone know how much ride comfort would be sacrificed by installing a thick front sway bar, say the E93 M3 one?

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by snaimpally

An LSD is not really that expensive. Several vendors are offering LSDs in the $1300 ballpark. Considering what people spend on a new set of wheels and cosmetic upgrades, the LSD is not that expensive. Plus, when you consider that the LSD helps you get all of the torque on the ground, instead of having your wheels spin uselessly, its an upgrade where the results are immediate and noticeable.

Installation is what makes LSD an expensive upgrade. It can't be done by someone who knows what they are doing, and installation can range from $600 to +$1000 in most cases. That is assume you have a bolted ring gear.

With welded gear, prepare to shell out close to $3000.

An alignment with more neg camber up front and stiffer front sway is cheapest and most effective upgrade if you don't track your car.

[snaimpally]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

Installation is what makes LSD an expensive upgrade. It can't be done by someone who knows what they are doing, and installation can range from $600 to +$1000 in most cases. That is assume you have a bolted ring gear.

With welded gear, prepare to shell out close to $3000.

An alignment with more neg camber up front and stiffer front sway is cheapest and most effective upgrade if you don't track your car.

I had a welded gear. Mfactory LSD was $1250 and install was $800 so around $2000 total, not the $3000 you are estimating. People spend that much on new wheels and tires.

When I first got the car, even before JB4, I noticed the tires struggling to get traction, especially when cornering or accelerating. The LSD cures that problem. I don't go to the track (nor do I have plans to). The LSD makes a big difference in terms of traction in day to day traffic.

I think everyone has provided good suggestions, such as neg camber, front sway bar, etc. I just think LSD should be included in the suggestions. For $2k, an LSD is excellent bang for the buck IMO.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by cpie168

Does anyone know how much ride comfort would be sacrificed by installing a thick front sway bar, say the E93 M3 one?

An anti-roll bar couples the left and right wheel carriers together with a torsional spring, the stiffer the bar the more tightly coupled the two sides' spring rates will be under lateral weight transfer, so ride quality will be unchanged under straight line conditions but cornering will be flatter.

[cpie168]

Thanks justpete. I understand but what about going through a pothole, for example? The coupling of the two front wheels would cause the impact from one side to be partially transferred to the other side. Would that cause a noticeable impact on ride comfort?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by cpie168

Thanks justpete. I understand but what about going through a pothole, for example? The coupling of the two front wheels would cause the impact from one side to be partially transferred to the other side. Would that cause a noticeable impact on ride comfort?

On rebound into the chuckhole the bar will twist as the wheel drops relative to the other which progressively decreases the effective spring rate on the falling wheel as it moves downward, storing energy in the bar. When compressing coming up the other edge the stored energy progressively provides less upward force as the wheel returns to the same height at the other one. This makes the springs seem more progressive than they are.

Because the bar tends to progressively resist the vertical movement of the wheel the car would tend to rock a bit more toward the side where the chuckhole is but it's not like having a rigid axle but somewhat more so than with a less stiff bar. And the dampers' rebound and compression settings would tend to mitigate the shock, within reason. Oversimplified as this doesn't take into account deformation of the tire or that of the one on the level side being loaded by the force of the bar applied through from the one following the chuckhole.

If you're looking for ride quality over handling then a stiffer anti-roll bar is probably not a good thing. It's pretty difficult to get both without an adaptive suspension.

[cpie168]

Thanks pete. I want to have the cake and eat it too....

[justpete]

Originally Posted by cpie168

Thanks pete. I want to have the cake and eat it too....

The MagneRide system in the CTS-V variants and, I think, the new Camaro would be cool. Man do they ever work on the track, it's amazing to watch a CTS-V wagon scream through corners on pretty much any line at all. And then they're just fine on the street. What a deal. Wonder how long it'll be before it's common across most cars, if ever.

[cpie168]

Does the new M3/M4 have adaptive suspension like that too?

[Manxman1950]

Originally Posted by E92 LCI

I want to firm up the handling of my 2011 e92 coupe. Car has 41k miles and its time to start upgrading. What are a few basic things I can do to make the car more firm and direct? I simply want to improve the handling and give it a more sporty feel in the twisties.

It doesn't sound as though you are a track rat, just want to tighten things up. I was in the same situation. My recommendations in terms of bang for buck are:
1. Whiteline rear subframe inserts, to control the errant rear end
2. M3 front control arms/tension struts to add some negative camber to the front
3. M3 front ARB
4. Bilstein B12 kit or Koni Sports with matching springs (Eibach)
Then, if you want to go to the next level,
5. LSD

Enjoy - search function, or Google is your friend.......