[BEM-S4]

Had some time to kill on Friday and my Audi dealer buddy had an S3 in stock so I went over to take it for a spin. Let me preface this by saying I did NOT really get on it as it hadn't been broken in properly, there's no way I am going to buy one now (maybe after the 235 lease is up) and I was there more to talk to him about an A3 for my mother. So I took it for a spirited but relatively calm test drive. Let me also state, for the record, that both the S3 and M235 are very nice cars but since we have the luxury of choosing between the two might as well give my honest opinion.

First of all if you need 4 doors for getting the kids in and out of the back or whatever it's a nice enough looking small sedan. I'd probably opt for one over a 3-series just due to size. It looks very small from the outside but I had a 6'2" friend in the back and he was reasonably comfortable, so the cabin space is more than adequate for what it is. Much better than the CLA. The interior styling was VERY spartan, although the screen retracting into the dash is a nice touch. The seats were hideous (black w/ red inserts) but otherwise very comfortable, although I do like ours better. That said I am 5'7" and 160 lbs so I am far from stretching the limits of any sport seats. Rear head room was good since the glass roof retracts on top of the rear section of the roof and does not slip inside as is typical. I did like the flat bottom wheel quite a bit, had a nice feel to it.

Styling - car was red with black and red leather, a little flashy for my tastes. I'd probably opt for grey with black leather (which I have on my 235) and the car would be a nice looking car but a little plain. Again, think S3 is a bit on the boring side, CLA is too vulgar for my tastes, so the 235 in the middle is just right.

Handling - the car is quick, no doubt about it, but feels a bit slower than I would have expected. The fake Quattro FWD-biased Haldex system is the real weak point. The car seemed very front heavy and like the back end could step out if I really got on it. I'd like to take it on a more aggressive test drive, but it felt a bit sluggish in normal drive mode, front heavy, and not firmly planted. None of which I expected from my previous Audi experience.

So long story short I like the car and would seriously consider it if I really needed 4 doors or my only options were S3 or CLA AMG. I do like our car a lot better.

Right after the test drive I threw the dealer the keys to my 235. He hopped in, asked if the engine was warm, and I put him in sport mode and told him to get after it. Same route we took with the S3, car was faster, more firmly planted, he got through the rev range much quicker and was very impressed overall. Said it was one of the best handling cars he's driven in recent memory and if it were his money he'd do a 235 over an S3 for sure. We also then discussed the fact that buying is about even, but that he can't really understand why anyone would pay $150 or more extra each month to drive his car (Audi leases suck).

All in all it was a fun afternoon. Also checked out a white RS7 they had in stock. Damn. I need to make more money, or at least allocate more of it to cars. That was one of the sexier cars I have seen in a LONG time and I don't even like white.

[beenthere1]

I had the same experience driving the S3. It isn't a bad car. In fact, it might be the best 4-door small car you can buy at the moment in this category. That being said, the M235i is so much better I would regret every day in the audi.

Also, you are correct, Audi leases are not good. The reason is BMW subsidizes leases via a high residual (60-63%) and assume you won't buy out the car at the end because it is a bad deal for the buyer. Thus, low monthly payments.

Audi has "realistic" residuals (52-55%), so if you plan to buy the car at the end of the lease, Audi makes more sense. But, if you planned to do that, why not just finance and save the lease fees? I suppose, Audi leases are easier to break because selling the car for the residual value is possible. For that privilege, one typically pays a fairly hefty monthly premium.

[doberzus]

Overpriced, German Evo!

S3 has a 2.0L 4 cylinder 292hp motor. Evo has a 2.0L 4 cylinder 291hp motor.... Except the Evo handles a million times better and is $10-$15k cheaper. Audi always disappoints. Every Audi I have test driven has been a let down.

They are so behind its not even funny. BMW has the new M3/M4 and M235. Mercedes has the new C63 and CLA45....Audi has the 2009 body style S4 and the slow Evo wannabe S3.

M235i is the better choice! Can't wait for mine!

[CF22]

I love the S3 and if at the time I ordered my M235i they were available I would've gone for one instead of the BMW, we do get excellent incentives from Audi/VW for being longtime customers. That said the M235i makes more sense for me at the moment, I did think about canceling my order and getting an S3 but the BMW was too good to pass up.

[Wheelwright]

If S3 had manual transmission I would probably choose it over my M235i. Or it would be very close. S3 has better traction because of all-wheel drive which allows it to rocket away from M235i in the city and in the rain/snow (I simply believe all-wheel drive to be superior because you can drive much harder without endangering your licence due to tire squeal or drifting). On the other hand M235i has a better-sounding and less laggy engine. However I don't like the booming noise M235i makes in Sport+ mode, it gets tiring on the highway, S3 is probably more refined in this respect.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Wheelwright

If S3 had manual transmission I would probably choose it over my M235i. Or it would be very close. S3 has better traction because of all-wheel drive which allows it to rocket away from M235i in the city and in the rain/snow (I simply believe all-wheel drive to be superior because you can drive much harder without endangering your licence due to tire squeal or drifting). On the other hand M235i has a better-sounding and less laggy engine. However I don't like the booming noise M235i makes in Sport+ mode, it gets tiring on the highway, S3 is probably more refined in this respect.

Have you actually driven the S3? Reason I ask is that I think it would benefit tremendously from a true Quattro system as opposed to the Haldex which in my opinion is a very poor substitute.

[ska///235i]

Kind of off topic...a M2 GC or even a M235gc would of destroy the S3 & CLA amg

Why wouldnt BMW make one is beyond me...they already made all these models

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by doberzus

Overpriced, German Evo!

S3 has a 2.0L 4 cylinder 292hp motor. Evo has a 2.0L 4 cylinder 291hp motor.... Except the Evo handles a million times better and is $10-$15k cheaper. Audi always disappoints. Every Audi I have test driven has been a let down.

They are so behind its not even funny. BMW has the new M3/M4 and M235. Mercedes has the new C63 and CLA45....Audi has the 2009 body style S4 and the slow Evo wannabe S3.

M235i is the better choice! Can't wait for mine!

Thats hilarious. when B9 Audis come out the 3 series will be WAY behind (3 or 4 years old and 2 will be 2 or 3 years old. They arent on the same cycle. Simple. How long was e92 around? 7 years?

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Have you actually driven the S3? Reason I ask is that I think it would benefit tremendously from a true Quattro system as opposed to the Haldex which in my opinion is a very poor substitute.

You are probably noticing the 59% overall weight over the front wheels more than the drivetrain. Haldex is used in Bugatti Veyron, Lambo Aventador etc. 235 is 51 or 53% over the front and weighs about 300lbs more . X-drive relies on ABS and DSC to compensate for traction losses and can transfer up to 100% to front or rear. I'm a huge Audi fan but I don't really like what they have done here either. Always wondered why BMW doesnt offer lower sport suspension on xdrive cars? Same thing.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

You are probably noticing the 59% overall weight over the front wheels more than the drivetrain. 235 is 51 or 53% and weighs about 300lbs more . I'm a huge Audi fan but I don't really like what they have done here either. Always wondered why BMW doesnt offer lower sport suspension on xdrive cars? Same thing.

That's a fair point, the combo is def not good.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

That's a fair point, the combo is def not good.

Yea, TT always suffered from that combo too. New Quatto is good. Can hang the tail out on wet/snow covered roads. Can almost steer with gas pedal on onramps.

[doberzus]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

Thats hilarious. when B9 Audis come out the 3 series will be WAY behind (3 or 4 years old and 2 will be 2 or 3 years old. They arent on the same cycle. Simple. How long was e92 around? 7 years?

U.S never gets the "good" Audi's. If they do, they are limited production(TTRS) or are $120-150k(RS7)

What's hilarious is that WHEN the new Audi's do come out to rival the M3/M4, C63, etc. They will still be behind, that's just how Audi is. They never give 100%... Maybe 80%. I mean I was looking forward to the S3 thinking they would put a detuned version of the S4/S5 motor. Nope. A damn 2.0, 4cylinder.


The U.S will not get a crazy fast Audi to rival the M3/M4 and C63. IF they do I will eat my words and buy the RS3 sportback IF that ever makes it to the states

[VMRWheels]

Nice write up. Been wanting to get into a S3 myself to compare

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by doberzus

U.S never gets the "good" Audi's. If they do, they are limited production(TTRS) or are $120-150k(RS7)

What's hilarious is that WHEN the new Audi's do come out to rival the M3/M4, C63, etc. They will still be behind, that's just how Audi is. They never give 100%... Maybe 80%. I mean I was looking forward to the S3 thinking they would put a detuned version of the S4/S5 motor. Nope. A damn 2.0, 4cylinder.


The U.S will not get a crazy fast Audi to rival the M3/M4 and C63. IF they do I will eat my words and buy the RS3 sportback IF that ever makes it to the states

Why would they put a detuned S4 motor in there? Then you would complain that it should be the full 333 hp....EVO is I4. Just read a review of S3 that said other than slight loss in straightline speed , its better than CLA AMG and considerably less dough. RS5, RS6, RS7 are all here. S4 and S5 still compete with 335 and 435 and they are 6 (?) years old. A4 is a direct competitor to 320 and 328. If you are racing/tracking these cars then you may have a point. What am I missing here?

[doberzus]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

Why would they put a detuned S4 motor in there? Then you would complain that it should be the full 333 hp....EVO is I4. Just read a review of S3 that said other than slight loss in straightline speed , its better than CLA AMG and considerably less dough. RS5, RS6, RS7 are all here. S4 and S5 still compete with 335 and 435 and they are 6 (?) years old. A4 is a direct competitor to 320 and 328. If you are racing/tracking these cars then you may have a point. What am I missing here?

You mad bro?

I wouldn't complain, because I would never buy an Audi.

It's all subjective and your opinion. If you like Audi and their underpowered cars, that's all good as long as you enjoy driving your car.

Evo is a 4 banger? Yeah, and what's your point. Stock Evo's are dogs. Thats why I modified mine, because who keeps an Evo stock? They are cheap to make fast and corner like no other car I've driven. It's a shit DD(mine isn't a DD), but a fun track/strip toy. I want a torquey, comfortable DD and that is where the 235 comes in.

The M235 is a I6 motor with lots of low end torque. A I6 turbo will always be smoother, faster, and more reliable than a high strung turbo 4 banger.

[Transfer]

The S3 fake Quattro is supposedly the same system as in the Mk7 Golf R. Hell, it's basically the same guts as the Golf R. Most reviews (European) have commented on how good the handling is on the R and even Chris Harris said it likely handled better than the M235i. He still preferred the 235i due to RWD playfulness though.

I agree that the Haldex system is not optimal, but it is supposed to be lightyears ahead of prior gens. It really doesn't make sense though, why they can't place their engines longitudinally, set them at the shock towers (not in front gotdamit), and use Torsen Quattro on their small cars. I suppose $$$ is the real reason and that 90% of their buyers don't know or care about the difference.

Now if they did manage to bring an RS3 sportback to the US, I could easily swallow the Haldex pill for that sweet 5 cyl pumping out 375HP in a wagon/hatch body.

[3liter1]

M235 is a different ballpark than S3 in all ways. But the base S3 will sell at just around 40K and comes with a lot. My comparison point is a 228 msport with x drive, leather, track handling package etc. ends up at around the same price or more. Yes the 228 will lease a lot better. S3 is more performance oriented out of the box. I test drove the S3 and it was loads of fun and powerful. For reference, I currently own a 128i and owned a V8 S4 and a 128i msport with manual. S3 will definitely be good for some. Final note, the S3 is no where near as "raw" as the 128, which I intend to keep as the last of a breed.

[haffl]

Originally Posted by 3liter1

M235 is a different ballpark than S3 in all ways. But the base S3 will sell at just around 40K and comes with a lot. My comparison point is a 228 msport with x drive, leather, track handling package etc. ends up at around the same price or more. Yes the 228 will lease a lot better. S3 is more performance oriented out of the box. I test drove the S3 and it was loads of fun and powerful. For reference, I currently own a 128i and owned a V8 S4 and a 128i msport with manual. S3 will definitely be good for some. Final note, the S3 is no where near as "raw" as the 128, which I intend to keep as the last of a breed.

I drove the new S3 in Grey with 19" rims on back roads before test driving and purchasing my new white M235xi.

Comments:
-The S3 has a very good engine for a 2.0 4 banger. I've previously owned 2 VW GTI's. Very responsive and fun.
-Interior was disappoining for an Audi (looks cheap). I prefer the new MK7 GTI's w/ leather over this car.
-Good base stereo...impressive for not being the top of the line Bang Olufsen
-Steering was good...quick and direct IMO.
-MMI nav graphics sucked. Poor quality IMO.
-Exterior: Very handsome, sporty looking sedan.

My 2015 M235xi comparison:

-This engine is impressive!!! In sport and sport + it feels faster than my previous 2009 335i coupe with Dinan Stage 2 s/w tune. The S3 can't touch this engines performance.

-The interior of my M235 is also on a different playing field than the S3. Black Dakota Leather, carbon fiber, incredibly ergonomic, electric side bolstering sport seats, iDrive Nav graphics, Web radio, Harmon Kardon stereo...what a great cockpit!

-The M235 in white is a beautfully sclupted piece of machinery, angel eye headlights, aggresive front end, dual exhaust....I like it alot more than the S3.

-The exhaust note (real or fake I don't care) coupled with this gem of an engine is reason enough to pick the M235 over the S3.

With the Golf R coming out...why would anybody pay $50K for an S3???

The 235 is a bargain of a car if you have to have German performance and luxury in a daily driver. Unbeatable!

[haffl]

Originally Posted by 3liter1

M235 is a different ballpark than S3 in all ways. But the base S3 will sell at just around 40K and comes with a lot. My comparison point is a 228 msport with x drive, leather, track handling package etc. ends up at around the same price or more. Yes the 228 will lease a lot better. S3 is more performance oriented out of the box. I test drove the S3 and it was loads of fun and powerful. For reference, I currently own a 128i and owned a V8 S4 and a 128i msport with manual. S3 will definitely be good for some. Final note, the S3 is no where near as "raw" as the 128, which I intend to keep as the last of a breed.

They were selling the S3 I drove for $49K MSRP...with taxes and dealer fees that puts it in the low $50K range. Not worth it IMO when you can purchase a 235 instead or a soon to be released Golf R.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by doberzus

You mad bro?

I wouldn't complain, because I would never buy an Audi.

It's all subjective and your opinion. If you like Audi and their underpowered cars, that's all good as long as you enjoy driving your car.

Evo is a 4 banger? Yeah, and what's your point. Stock Evo's are dogs. Thats why I modified mine, because who keeps an Evo stock? They are cheap to make fast and corner like no other car I've driven. It's a shit DD(mine isn't a DD), but a fun track/strip toy. I want a torquey, comfortable DD and that is where the 235 comes in.

The M235 is a I6 motor with lots of low end torque. A I6 turbo will always be smoother, faster, and more reliable than a high strung turbo 4 banger.

Not mad at all just don't understand your logic.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by 3liter1

M235 is a different ballpark than S3 in all ways. But the base S3 will sell at just around 40K and comes with a lot. My comparison point is a 228 msport with x drive, leather, track handling package etc. ends up at around the same price or more. Yes the 228 will lease a lot better. S3 is more performance oriented out of the box. I test drove the S3 and it was loads of fun and powerful. For reference, I currently own a 128i and owned a V8 S4 and a 128i msport with manual. S3 will definitely be good for some. Final note, the S3 is no where near as "raw" as the 128, which I intend to keep as the last of a breed.

Exactly. Totally different cars with different target markets.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by Transfer

The S3 fake Quattro is supposedly the same system as in the Mk7 Golf R. Hell, it's basically the same guts as the Golf R. Most reviews (European) have commented on how good the handling is on the R and even Chris Harris said it likely handled better than the M235i. He still preferred the 235i due to RWD playfulness though.

I agree that the Haldex system is not optimal, but it is supposed to be lightyears ahead of prior gens. It really doesn't make sense though, why they can't place their engines longitudinally, set them at the shock towers (not in front gotdamit), and use Torsen Quattro on their small cars. I suppose $$$ is the real reason and that 90% of their buyers don't know or care about the difference.

Now if they did manage to bring an RS3 sportback to the US, I could easily swallow the Haldex pill for that sweet 5 cyl pumping out 375HP in a wagon/hatch body.

Haldex is used in Lambo Aventador and Veyron. Not ALL bad.