[East River Guide]

How would you describe the 2 series to someone who has never seen one? When I bought mine I was thinking more in terms of a two door 3 series sedan. But the more I drive it the more it seems like a 2+2 sports car. The 2 is its own animal, but what's the best analogy?

[ska///235i]

2 door coupe...

[East River Guide]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

2 door coupe...

The 1973 Cadillac Coupe de Ville is a 2 door coupe. Not the same as a 2er. And neither is a 435 or an A5 or a Dodge Challenger. Yet all are 2 door coupes. So YMMV but to me it's not that helpful a description if you are trying to give someone a good idea of what the car is like.

[BLK235iNJ]

there are so many reviews on the car i would tell the person asking to view some and then I would tell them that the car is a great size, balanced, quick and very fun to drive.

Not sure how the doors come into place. I'm sure the 4dr M3 drives like a beast so comparing to other 4dr cars makes no sense to me

Now if I liked the person I'd let them drive mine.

[Cyberdemon]

A 2 series is effectively the same car as a E92 3 series coupe was - and no one would call that anything other than a coupe. It's dimensionally only slightly smaller than the 4 series.

A 2 + 2 sports car is something like a 911 where the back seat at best can hold a small child or a brief case. I am 6'4 and can fit in the back seat of a 228i (not comfortably, but me fitting in the back of a 911 simply is not possible).

Don't over think this one, it's a two door 3 series now that the 3 series is as large as an old 5 series.

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

A 2 series is effectively the same car as a E92 3 series coupe was - and no one would call that anything other than a coupe. It's dimensionally only slightly smaller than the 4 series.

It's way smaller than the E92 coupe. When I was debating between the 135 and the 335 coupe a few years ago, one of the deciding factors was that the E92 coupe was 10 inches longer than the 135. 10 inches! almost a foot! That's a huge difference. Now the 2er is less than 3 inches longer than the 1er, so its MUCH closer to a 135 dimensions than an E92 coupe.

[Icy J]

2 door 1-series....

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by Icy J

2 door 1-series....

I had to read this a few times before I realized where you were posting from.
In the US, all 1 series are 2 doors. We never got the 4-door version. That's unfortunate, as I think it would have sold well over here, considering the number of GTIs I see on the road. Yes, it is more expensive than the GTI, but better in every way.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

A 2 series is effectively the same car as a E92 3 series coupe was - and no one would call that anything other than a coupe. It's dimensionally only slightly smaller than the 4 series.

A 2 + 2 sports car is something like a 911 where the back seat at best can hold a small child or a brief case. I am 6'4 and can fit in the back seat of a 228i (not comfortably, but me fitting in the back of a 911 simply is not possible).

Don't over think this one, it's a two door 3 series now that the 3 series is as large as an old 5 series.

This.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

A 2 series is effectively the same car as a E92 3 series coupe was - and no one would call that anything other than a coupe. It's dimensionally only slightly smaller than the 4 series.

A 2 + 2 sports car is something like a 911 where the back seat at best can hold a small child or a brief case. I am 6'4 and can fit in the back seat of a 228i (not comfortably, but me fitting in the back of a 911 simply is not possible).

Don't over think this one, it's a two door 3 series now that the 3 series is as large as an old 5 series.

I have a 335is and just drove my new M235i over 1300 miles through Europe. The cars felt very different.

If I had to make an analogy, I'd say a roomier, less twitchy, softer 1 series.

And like the above post - I really wouldn't call it a sports car. Sport compact, sure... but if we're on a car forum, we should use that term "sports car" better than the average person would. This is not a GT3.

[ska///235i]

Originally Posted by East River Guide

The 1973 Cadillac Coupe de Ville is a 2 door coupe. Not the same as a 2er. And neither is a 435 or an A5 or a Dodge Challenger. Yet all are 2 door coupes. So YMMV but to me it's not that helpful a description if you are trying to give someone a good idea of what the car is like.

Whats the point...its a coupe and is that simple

Why does someone need to explain there 2 door 2 series like its rocket science????

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

It's way smaller than the E92 coupe. When I was debating between the 135 and the 335 coupe a few years ago, one of the deciding factors was that the E92 coupe was 10 inches longer than the 135. 10 inches! almost a foot! That's a huge difference. Now the 2er is less than 3 inches longer than the 1er, so its MUCH closer to a 135 dimensions than an E92 coupe.

Not sure where you got your dimensions - I just pulled the dimensions and the E92 has a 2.8" longer wheelbase and a 5.9" overall length. The track and height are all less then 1" apart. 5.9" is basically the length of my smartphone.

Either way, it doesn't change what the car is. I don't know who we're having this hypothetical conversation with that we have to discuss "what this car is".

A 2 + 2 sports car it is not. Just like I would not tell a stranger I used to drive a hatchback when describing a Corvette.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

Why does someone need to explain there 2 door 2 series like its rocket science????

Because pulling out your cell phone and showing someone a picture is complicated.

[East River Guide]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

we should use that term "sports car" better than the average person would. This is not a GT3.

Not a GT3, but where do you draw the line? MX-5? 370Z? I think the 2 could hang with some cars that are commonly considered sports cars, even if not all of them.

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

Not sure where you got your dimensions - I just pulled the dimensions and the E92 has a 2.8" longer wheelbase and a 5.9" overall length. The track and height are all less then 1" apart. 5.9" is basically the length of my smartphone.

Either way, it doesn't change what the car is. I don't know who we're having this hypothetical conversation with that we have to discuss "what this car is".

A 2 + 2 sports car it is not. Just like I would not tell a stranger I used to drive a hatchback when describing a Corvette.

To be clear, the 10" difference is between the E92 coupe and the E82 coupe.
And looking up specs, it's actually 11.7" difference when looking at 2011+ MYs.

[DuhCar]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

Don't over think this one, it's a two door 3 series now that the 3 series is as large as an old 5 series.

And that folks, is why I want a 2 series Gran Coupe. Four doors with a hatch and it's the size of an old 3 series.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by East River Guide

Not a GT3, but where do you draw the line? MX-5? 370Z? I think the 2 could hang with some cars that are commonly considered sports cars, even if not all of them.

A new 6 cylinder Honda Accord can probably hang with a late model 911. One is and will forever be a sports car. The other doesn't even come close to the imaginary line you speak of. I think the term sports car has a general idea, but to really define a car as a sports car, I think you need to look at what the car was built for. And you're right, the line is very grey, but being fast isn't what makes a sports car.

[ska///235i]

Originally Posted by DuhCar

And that folks, is why I want a 2 series Gran Coupe. Four doors with a hatch and it's the size of an old 3 series.

M2 grand coupe and take my money

[DuhCar]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

M2 grand coupe and take my money

That one will never happen I'm afraid. Just get the M2.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by East River Guide

Not a GT3, but where do you draw the line? MX-5? 370Z? I think the 2 could hang with some cars that are commonly considered sports cars, even if not all of them.

"Hanging" has nothing to do with what defines a car. A Porsche Macan could hang with a lot of sports cars, but it doesn't make it a sports car.

Sports cars are defined as 2 door, typically 2 seat cars that have the primary purpose of performance characteristics. So a MX-5, 370Z, 911 are all "Sports" cars. When they were designing the Miata they could have said "let's make the trunk bigger, or lets add more cup holders, or how about 2 more seats" but they did not. They set out to design and build a small lightweight sports car.

While all BMW's are "Sporty", the 2 series was not designed as a sports car. It is a Coupe built off a platform that was designed for compact cars. That is why it shares most of it's heritage between the 3 series chassis (which is not a sports car) and the 1 series which underpins small engined 5 door hatchbacks. I can tell you right now the 116d hatchback was not designed for "Sports". The fact that someone has stuck a 320hp engine in yours, shaved off 2 doors, added an M badge does not change that purpose.

You can call it a "sports coupe" if it helps your story, but it simply is not a sports car by any accepted definition. Just like a 500hp Civic is not a sports car.

This thread makes my head hurt.

[Lucky13]

I owned a Pontiac Fiero GT once and thought it was a "sports car". It's all in the way you perceive it to be. Back then one of the hottest sports cars was a Toyota MR2 so times have changed.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

I owned a Pontiac Fiero GT once and thought it was a "sports car". It's all in the way you perceive it to be. Back then one of the hottest sports cars was a Toyota MR2 so times have changed.

Both the MR2 and Fiero were absolutely sports cars by definition - but they were built during the era of the fuel crisis where any "performance" car was anemic by today's standards.

It's not in perception, it's in the accepted definitions of the words as supported by decades of automotive design and journalism.