[Liquidpaper]

Today was my first HPDE event in my '15 M235i at Buttonwillow Raceway, and I thought I would do a review to put some context to the reviews we've all read.

First off, this was my second track-event, so I am about as novice as it gets, but I feel like I've taken to the sport reasonably well - I feel comfortable driving at 8/10+ on the track and I really can't think of a better way to spend a weekend. My last car was a 2013 GTI, so the M235i is simply in a different league with respect to performance.

Initial impressions:

We all pretty much agree that the M235i is a wonderful street car. It's comfortable, compliant, well-built, nimble, and quick. But, that's on the street. I kept wondering (until today) how it would deal with being driven at 8/10+ on a closed circuit.

Engine:

I can't say enough about it. The (slightly modified - forged crank, enhanced cooling, software tune) N55 is a monster. It just pulls, and pulls. And pulls. And pulls some more. Didn't skip a beat today. Temps stayed the same as driving on the street (I have a P3 vent gauge) and it just has so...much...torque. The only downside is that it's not the best car to learn how to drive on a track with, as it's simply too forgiving. Brake too early and dump too much speed? No problem - just throttle up and you'll be back up to speed in moments. That idiot in the BRZ starting to pick up some ground in the turns (more on that later)? Lol - just hammer down and he's long gone. I think it'd be better to learn how to drive a track in a Miata, as it becomes painfully apparent when you make a mistake, as it takes you half a lap to get back to speed again. That being said, the M235i's N55 is unbelievably impressive.

Point of reference. My uncle has an E36 M3 that my buddy was borrowing for the day. The M3 had a supercharger (and a lot of other things) done to it years ago - it's basically a street legal race car now. I took a spin in the M3 - the N55 just annihilates the S50 (with a supercharger). Twin-scroll turbos are just the best...

Transmission:

My M235i is a 6MT, and if you haven't driven Buttonwillow, you can pretty much do the entire track in 3rd, as it tops out at 108ish. I think I had to drop it into fourth a handful of times on the front straight, but otherwise, I never had to shift. That being said, good gearbox. The E36's was slightly better - crisper I guess - but I can't be certain that it's stock - it probably has a short throw in it. The M235i with a short throw kit will be great.

Suspension/Steering:

This is what surprised me so much. There has been a bit of complaining regarding the steering rack and adaptive suspension. First, the steering. I disagree regarding the "lack of feedback" issues some complain about with the wheel. I never once felt like I didn't know what my tires (or suspension) was doing. Plenty of feedback, extremely precise, well-weighted at speed. I was very impressed.

With respect to the suspension, I was also very impressed. I think we all forget that the adaptive suspension is just that - adaptive. Just because you drop the thing into sport mode doesn't mean that the car is going to feel like you put polyurethane bushings in. It's a street car and has to give a little. That being said, it did a great job on hard cornering - got very stiff when it needed to be, loosened up when it didn't need to be. Also, I had very little sensation of body-roll. Yeah, it had some, but I never felt like it compromised the overall chassis at all. The setup is just superb. Also, I never really felt like the car was "heavy." Yeah, it could be lighter, but the suspension handles the weight very well. I suppose weight doesn't always mean everything - a stock GTR weighs almost 3800 pounds after all, and gave Jeremy Clarkson whiplash.

Now the BRZ - there was another student in a BRZ in the third session (I think he had a bit more experience than me) that was just ripping up the turns. That car handles great and is lighter, so I suppose that a person might feel more confident taking hard corners at high speeds. However, as the day wore on (and I started to trust my car more) he couldn't keep up with me in the turns anymore.

Tires/Brakes/Etc.

I'm still on the PSS - didn't bother to switch to track tires. They did great. Tons of grip and they let you know long before you lose traction. They also held up pretty well after the day, and I was beating the crap out of them for the last three sessions. I suppose maybe I'll get 10-15k miles out of them, but they really do pretty well on the track.

My brakes were stock, except I switched out the stock fluid for ATE 200 to help fight fade. I didn't really have any problems with fade - maybe very little (and not really sure about that either) after 3 or 4 successive turns nuking the brakes (screwed up my line) after a few laps, but they came back very quickly. At no point did I feel like I couldn't rely on them - in fact, I came to learn towards the end of the day that I could push them waaay harder and sharper than I thought I could. For extended track use, I'd still recommend a switch to a more track focused pad perhaps, and I would always recommend putting in high temp fluid (its cheap and doesn't effect street performance). That being said, the stock pads do just fine for a track day - and hell, BMW replaces them for free as part of the maintenance plan!

I drove today in Sport +, just to get a feel for the car (I'll probably turn it all off after a few more track days). The DTC system is pretty good - really doesn't interfere unless you're in real trouble, and then it really saves your ass. Also, I wanted to give some thoughts on the lack of a mechanical LSD. As you all know, the car has a mechanically open differential, but is electronically locked (brakes). You'd really be surprised how sufficient this system is. Of course, a full mechanical/electronic LSD would be better, but the electronic locking differential is quite good. If you're learning the sport (and are not trying to drift) you really don't need the LSD - the car as set up does just fine.

Final thoughts:

What surprised me the most was that I really beat the hell out of her (Brunhilde, in case anyone wanted to know) today, and she comfortably and reliably got me home after the day was over (2+ hours back to LA). Kind of blew my mind that a car can perform like it did on the track can just up and take me home with all the modern conveniences. It's really a special car. Also, got tons of comments in the paddock - had quite a few people come up and look at her.

The upcoming M2 (my next car - probably - after the lease is up on this one) is going to be absolutely insane. I can't imagine this car with close to 400 HP and even better suspension.

One gripe - what the hell is with the 13.5 gallon fuel tank BMW? My GTI was 14.5. I blew an entire tank of gas today - got my fuel light half way through my last session.

If you guys have questions about anything I haven't mentioned, ask in the comments.

[jeremicium]

Nice review. I'm also pretty new to HPDE.

Some observations/comments: I think the stock M235i would be great for almost any novice driver, a more experienced driver would be able to outdrive the brakes before one session was over. As far as the LSD is concerned, I bet if you drove a 235 with the LSD you would notice a major difference. The ability to accelerate out of the turns with an LSD is significantly improved.

13.5 gallon tank for the 235 is a joke, I imagine BMW didn't have room for a larger one. I think my 335 has a 16.5 gallon tank and doesn't get much worse miileage.

Interesting point you made about learning in a Miata vs. the 235. I did one track day in my 335 and i've done three in my S2000. Huge differences in how you drive these cars. Light, agile, twitchy, with no traction or stability control, and no torque vs. relatively heavy, very stable, composed, forgiving, and with loads of torque. While the 235 is more forgiving, it also has enough torque to easily get you in trouble. Miata (or in my case S2000) doesn't have all the safety features to keep you out of trouble, so you have to drive smooth and smart to keep from losing your shit, but the lack of torque does help keep you out of trouble and forces you to make the most out of all you have.

[horsepower_and_hounds]

Dude...great review and fabulous feedback. Hearing things like this makes me even more happy I bought this car. Not lease...bought

The M2 will be outrageous but I do not need it or the payment. It would be great to take my 235 to Buttonwillow....I used to club race a R6 there years ago

Gas tank....they prolly keep it small for weight/bias reasons

[3.0L]

Thanks for the nice review, LiquidPaper. Very nicely written!

I don't plan to track my M235i, but I do find time to dice around some of my favorite country roads. The car never disappoints, and I haven't even come close to its limits. Heh!

As to the gas tank capacity, I'm not sure what is considered adequate for track racing. I do know from experience that the car has reasonably long legs on the highway. I'm seeing 33 to 34+ MPG which would theoretically stretch the range to around 400 miles with 1.5 gallons remaining at the pit stop. That's more range than any recent car I've owned.

[CF22]

Great review!!

I'm also going to the M235i from an MK6 GTI and would like to know more on how they compare. How's body roll and how's steering compare?

[Vervain]

That was really a good review. You're making me even more excited to get mine!

[mike@x-ph.com]

Nice review

[sdpauly]

Nice review!!

...I don't know if you've ever dirven a 135i, but the small gas tank is pretty much my only complaint about the car. The 135i might be a tad smaller than the 235i, I think my tank is closer to 12 gal.

I am also eagerly waiting to see what the M2 brings to the table.

[Diver]

Good write up.

[rwalker]

can you show pics of your front tires, especially wear on the outside vs. the inside?

[G-Mann]

Very nice review.

[patbrass]

Good stuff - thanks for sharing. Also did an HDPE event last month and can't agree more with everything you said. This car is so fun. Such a beast too - although you're not racing anyone, when I passed a Cayman and then later an Elise, it put a smile on my face

[Cyberdemon]

Nice feedback, good to know you had a trouble free day with the car stock.


Out of curiosity what kind of pressures were you running in the tires?

[W///]

I'm more or less on the same boat as you. Only done 2 track days before (proper ones, driving the Nurburgring didn't count). My thoughts in no particular order:

- EPS is not bad, I could live with it. But I also own an E36 M3 and an E92 M3, and those are better. Like I said, in isolation, the system in the M235i is not bad, but I personally wouldn't call it great either (especially compared to let's say EPS in Porsches).
- You think 1 tank per day is bad? My E92 M3 went through almost 3 tanks of gas between the drive to and back from the track day, and 4.5 sessions
- That was one of the huge reasons I got an E36. E92 was just too easy to go fast for a novice like me. I could miss the line, and then make up the speed up on the straights. Not to mention parts are very expensive compared to the E36.
- The M2 will most likely be my next car to add. I can't wait!

Thanks for the review!

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

Today was my first HPDE event in my '15 M235i at Buttonwillow Raceway, and I thought I would do a review to put some context to the reviews we've all read.

First off, this was my second track-event, so I am about as novice as it gets, but I feel like I've taken to the sport reasonably well - I feel comfortable driving at 8/10+ on the track and I really can't think of a better way to spend a weekend. My last car was a 2013 GTI, so the M235i is simply in a different league with respect to performance.

Initial impressions:

We all pretty much agree that the M235i is a wonderful street car. It's comfortable, compliant, well-built, nimble, and quick. But, that's on the street. I kept wondering (until today) how it would deal with being driven at 8/10+ on a closed circuit.

Engine:

I can't say enough about it. The (slightly modified - forged crank, enhanced cooling, software tune) N55 is a monster. It just pulls, and pulls. And pulls. And pulls some more. Didn't skip a beat today. Temps stayed the same as driving on the street (I have a P3 vent gauge) and it just has so...much...torque. The only downside is that it's not the best car to learn how to drive on a track with, as it's simply too forgiving. Brake too early and dump too much speed? No problem - just throttle up and you'll be back up to speed in moments. That idiot in the BRZ starting to pick up some ground in the turns (more on that later)? Lol - just hammer down and he's long gone. I think it'd be better to learn how to drive a track in a Miata, as it becomes painfully apparent when you make a mistake, as it takes you half a lap to get back to speed again. That being said, the M235i's N55 is unbelievably impressive.

Point of reference. My uncle has an E36 M3 that my buddy was borrowing for the day. The M3 had a supercharger (and a lot of other things) done to it years ago - it's basically a street legal race car now. I took a spin in the M3 - the N55 just annihilates the S50 (with a supercharger). Twin-scroll turbos are just the best...

Transmission:

My M235i is a 6MT, and if you haven't driven Buttonwillow, you can pretty much do the entire track in 3rd, as it tops out at 108ish. I think I had to drop it into fourth a handful of times on the front straight, but otherwise, I never had to shift. That being said, good gearbox. The E36's was slightly better - crisper I guess - but I can't be certain that it's stock - it probably has a short throw in it. The M235i with a short throw kit will be great.

Suspension/Steering:

This is what surprised me so much. There has been a bit of complaining regarding the steering rack and adaptive suspension. First, the steering. I disagree regarding the "lack of feedback" issues some complain about with the wheel. I never once felt like I didn't know what my tires (or suspension) was doing. Plenty of feedback, extremely precise, well-weighted at speed. I was very impressed.

With respect to the suspension, I was also very impressed. I think we all forget that the adaptive suspension is just that - adaptive. Just because you drop the thing into sport mode doesn't mean that the car is going to feel like you put polyurethane bushings in. It's a street car and has to give a little. That being said, it did a great job on hard cornering - got very stiff when it needed to be, loosened up when it didn't need to be. Also, I had very little sensation of body-roll. Yeah, it had some, but I never felt like it compromised the overall chassis at all. The setup is just superb. Also, I never really felt like the car was "heavy." Yeah, it could be lighter, but the suspension handles the weight very well. I suppose weight doesn't always mean everything - a stock GTR weighs almost 3800 pounds after all, and gave Jeremy Clarkson whiplash.

Now the BRZ - there was another student in a BRZ in the third session (I think he had a bit more experience than me) that was just ripping up the turns. That car handles great and is lighter, so I suppose that a person might feel more confident taking hard corners at high speeds. However, as the day wore on (and I started to trust my car more) he couldn't keep up with me in the turns anymore.

Tires/Brakes/Etc.

I'm still on the PSS - didn't bother to switch to track tires. They did great. Tons of grip and they let you know long before you lose traction. They also held up pretty well after the day, and I was beating the crap out of them for the last three sessions. I suppose maybe I'll get 10-15k miles out of them, but they really do pretty well on the track.

My brakes were stock, except I switched out the stock fluid for ATE 200 to help fight fade. I didn't really have any problems with fade - maybe very little (and not really sure about that either) after 3 or 4 successive turns nuking the brakes (screwed up my line) after a few laps, but they came back very quickly. At no point did I feel like I couldn't rely on them - in fact, I came to learn towards the end of the day that I could push them waaay harder and sharper than I thought I could. For extended track use, I'd still recommend a switch to a more track focused pad perhaps, and I would always recommend putting in high temp fluid (its cheap and doesn't effect street performance). That being said, the stock pads do just fine for a track day - and hell, BMW replaces them for free as part of the maintenance plan!

I drove today in Sport +, just to get a feel for the car (I'll probably turn it all off after a few more track days). The DTC system is pretty good - really doesn't interfere unless you're in real trouble, and then it really saves your ass. Also, I wanted to give some thoughts on the lack of a mechanical LSD. As you all know, the car has a mechanically open differential, but is electronically locked (brakes). You'd really be surprised how sufficient this system is. Of course, a full mechanical/electronic LSD would be better, but the electronic locking differential is quite good. If you're learning the sport (and are not trying to drift) you really don't need the LSD - the car as set up does just fine.

Final thoughts:

What surprised me the most was that I really beat the hell out of her (Brunhilde, in case anyone wanted to know) today, and she comfortably and reliably got me home after the day was over (2+ hours back to LA). Kind of blew my mind that a car can perform like it did on the track can just up and take me home with all the modern conveniences. It's really a special car. Also, got tons of comments in the paddock - had quite a few people come up and look at her.

The upcoming M2 (my next car - probably - after the lease is up on this one) is going to be absolutely insane. I can't imagine this car with close to 400 HP and even better suspension.

One gripe - what the hell is with the 13.5 gallon fuel tank BMW? My GTI was 14.5. I blew an entire tank of gas today - got my fuel light half way through my last session.

If you guys have questions about anything I haven't mentioned, ask in the comments.

what PSI where you running?

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by CF22

Great review!!

I'm also going to the M235i from an MK6 GTI and would like to know more on how they compare. How's body roll and how's steering compare?

There really is no comparison between the MKVI and the M235i - its a completely different league of performance, build quality, etc.

That being said, the steering on the MK6 was very good, but I think the M235i steering is at very least comparable, if not maybe a little better.

With regard to body roll, like I said, there was some body roll, but I never felt like it was anything to be worried about, or anything that upset the balance of the car - it felt like a reasonable amount.

For those of you asking for tire information, I was running stock PSI - 33/34. At temp. (which was around 150 F) my psi was about 38-39 and 40-41 front/rear. I think maybe you could drop the front and rear 1 or 2 psi each, but I think the stock setup does pretty well.

I'm going out again at Buttonwillow for TT at the end of October (CalClub event). Anyone else in SoCal thinking about going?

[DarkstarZero]

Because you can't turn off the DSC without reverting to Comfort mode, you're stuck in Sport+ on the track. This means that your inside rear brakes are jabbing in sharp corners. You'll find that after 2 to 4 HPDEs, you need to replace your rear pads.

Big fail on BMWs part.

[rwalker]

DSC off gives me Comfort throttle but Sport suspension...

[pikcachu]

No, in DSC OFF mode the chassis is in sport mode steeering and susp is as heavy and stiff as in sport, just throttle is in comfort mode