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      09-24-2014, 09:34 AM   #1
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Track Tires

I'm planning to pick up a new set of tires in the next few days, and I've narrowed down the options to the following, both about the same price for a 245/40-18 square setup:
  1. Hankook Ventus R-S3 (Version 2)
  2. BF Goodrich g-Force Rival

Does anyone have any experience with either or both of these tires? They will be primarily for the track, but will get some occasional street use as well.

Also, any thoughts on whether it may be worth considering just spending a little more for R-comps since they'll be primarily for the track anyway...?
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      09-24-2014, 10:29 AM   #2
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i use toyo R888 for daily driving , yes they are noisy but when you have music on/ windows open a bit you won't hear the whine.
it's too hard to lose grip on corners..
and yeah am running square 245/40/18
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      09-25-2014, 07:33 PM   #3
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I heard RS3 is better for track-use over Rival.
Rival has slight better lateral grip and better for autox-use.
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      09-25-2014, 09:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVC View Post
They will be primarily for the track, but will get some occasional street use as well.

Also, any thoughts on whether it may be worth considering just spending a little more for R-comps since they'll be primarily for the track anyway...?
I am currently using Dunlop ZII (similar style tire to what you mentioned) in a 235 front / 265 rear size for my Z435 and like it a lot. Solid grip and handles heat fairly well.

At the risk of stating the obvious I would keep a close eye out for standing water with this style of tire. Even with close to full thread I got into a tank-slapper at 65mph when accelerating hard and hitting standing water. Not fun.

Personally, if it was truly a track tire with street use just for driving to the track I would go more aggressive and get the Toyo R888 or Pilot Sport Cup
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      09-25-2014, 10:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
I am currently using Dunlop ZII (similar style tire to what you mentioned) in a 235 front / 265 rear size for my Z435 and like it a lot. Solid grip and handles heat fairly well.

At the risk of stating the obvious I would keep a close eye out for standing water with this style of tire. Even with close to full thread I got into a tank-slapper at 65mph when accelerating hard and hitting standing water. Not fun.

Personally, if it was truly a track tire with street use just for driving to the track I would go more aggressive and get the Toyo R888 or Pilot Sport Cup
I have read good things about the Zii, but also that they get very greasy after about 15 minutes.
I have also been doing some research on R-comps too (as these will be primarily for the track) but one concern is some feedback that I've read about R-comps loss of grip being considerably more abrupt at the tractive limit than even extreme perf street tires... not sure I want to go there with my DD.
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      09-29-2014, 07:01 PM   #6
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So, are you looking for a DD tire or a track tire?

Yes, I agree with that, after 15-20 minutes the ZII do start to feel a bit "greasy". But then again, the sessions at the HPDE I go to are 20 minute, so it hasn't been a big deal.

(also not sure if there is a street tire that doesn't get "greasy" after 15-20 minutes of opening lapping HPDE in a 3500lb street car..)
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      09-29-2014, 08:50 PM   #7
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Actually just today I ordered the Dunlop Direzza ZII Star Spec... the "Star Spec" version just came out about a month ago, and apparently they have addressed a couple improvements, including the heat profile.
My other consideration turned out to be the Continental ContiForceContact, which is a "streetable" track tire. The downside of this tire was that, in order to keep it lighter, it has a much more spartan carcass, which leaves it very vulnerable to potholes on the roads...not sure that would work for me in NJ even just driving to and from the track. Plus the rubber compound apparently isn't much different than the extreme perf street tires... and the closest size I could get was a 235/40, so I'd have lost a little tread width.
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      10-02-2014, 01:40 AM   #8
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      10-02-2014, 09:03 AM   #9
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RS3 would get my vote. I have not run them myself yet, but I've seen lots of people have very impressive track results (non-f30's) with them.

I have the old star spec's on my evo 8 for street driving, the times I've driven to the track and decided to go out on them I've spun or had other issues in short order. R888's I suspect are a step up from Rs 3s but they do fall off at the end their life (been trough 4 sets so I have experience). The NT 01 is a grippier tire, but is not streetable imo if there is any chance of rain.
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      10-02-2014, 10:13 AM   #10
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Direzza ZII Star Specs are going on the car on Monday, and I'll test them out on the track next weekend... review to follow
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      10-17-2014, 12:04 PM   #11
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I run RS3's and haven't ever been more impressed with a "street" tire on the track. They've been hard to come by last few months - if I couldn't get the RS3's I'd get Direzza's and not lose any sleep.
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      10-17-2014, 07:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utenigma View Post
I run RS3's and haven't ever been more impressed with a "street" tire on the track. They've been hard to come by last few months - if I couldn't get the RS3's I'd get Direzza's and not lose any sleep.
Do you have this year's version ("Version 2"), or the original version?
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      10-19-2014, 08:27 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVC View Post
Do you have this year's version ("Version 2"), or the original version?
original - haven't heard any complaints from the guys that have the V2 ones though. From looking at times where my competitors usually fall, it seems like the V2's hit up a little faster than mine and I don't see any evidence of them falling off

Next year i'll have the V2's
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      10-21-2014, 04:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utenigma View Post
original - haven't heard any complaints from the guys that have the V2 ones though. From looking at times where my competitors usually fall, it seems like the V2's hit up a little faster than mine and I don't see any evidence of them falling off

Next year i'll have the V2's
I've read that the V2s are better in the wet that the original version, but are a little less heat resistant (makes sense if you've ascertained that they heat up faster), and not quite as much lateral grip. (This is why I went with the Direzza)
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      10-28-2014, 02:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVC View Post
Direzza ZII Star Specs are going on the car on Monday, and I'll test them out on the track next weekend... review to follow
How'd they stand up? I hammered my PSS the last track season (4 DE's) and will not be running them again at the track (my tire sidewalls hate me lol). I have adjustable front control arms, so I'll probably run 2.2 deg of front camber in front and 1.8 in the rear...zero toe so it doesn't screw up my daily driving.

Then I'm gonna get a set of TSW nurburgrings 18x9.5 et 40 with some Yokohama ADVAN A048 in 265/35R18. I figure I'll grab a harbor freight AL racing jack so I can swap at the track (2 day events only from now on ). I'm already needing to swap pads so might as well go all out. I know this is a lot up front, but I'm hoping it prevents me from destroying street tires and hopefully the A048's have a lot of wear in them. Benefit is you get the traction of a R-comp but aren't doing something silly like running slicks .

Any F30 drivers doing something similar? Lot of S4 guys do this, mostly R888's.
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      10-28-2014, 05:45 PM   #16
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How'd they stand up?
on my z435 the ZII were fine. The oil got too hot before the tires
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      10-29-2014, 07:14 AM   #17
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Quote:
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on my z435 the ZII were fine. The oil got too hot before the tires
The oil got so hot that you had to pit during a 20 min track session? This is a 335i sport line completely stock? Did it give you a DIS message and pull power? That's really disappointing.
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      10-29-2014, 09:37 AM   #18
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The oil got so hot that you had to pit during a 20 min track session? This is a 335i sport line completely stock? Did it give you a DIS message and pull power? That's really disappointing.

completely stock 335 sport line (down to rft) at buttonwillow CW13, oil temps got over 280F, no error messages but definitely power reduction, and tires definitely started chunking. seems like m sport package and different tires are mandatory for track use

My Z4 35i is no better from a cooling standpoint.

Honestly, this is not news. cooling has been a 35i issue since 2007 so I wasn't expecting any different. Just wanted to try it out and see what it would be like
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      11-06-2014, 03:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drob23 View Post
How'd they stand up? I hammered my PSS the last track season (4 DE's) and will not be running them again at the track (my tire sidewalls hate me lol). I have adjustable front control arms, so I'll probably run 2.2 deg of front camber in front and 1.8 in the rear...zero toe so it doesn't screw up my daily driving.

Then I'm gonna get a set of TSW nurburgrings 18x9.5 et 40 with some Yokohama ADVAN A048 in 265/35R18. I figure I'll grab a harbor freight AL racing jack so I can swap at the track (2 day events only from now on ). I'm already needing to swap pads so might as well go all out. I know this is a lot up front, but I'm hoping it prevents me from destroying street tires and hopefully the A048's have a lot of wear in them. Benefit is you get the traction of a R-comp but aren't doing something silly like running slicks .

Any F30 drivers doing something similar? Lot of S4 guys do this, mostly R888's.
The Direzza Zii Star Specs were excellent. I got 6 sessions in on them - 4-1/2 dry, 1-1/2 wet. I experimented a little initially with pressures - they felt really good with a target of 40psi hot, which I achieved starting at 32psi cold (~60 degree ambient temps). They may even be fine a little lower, as long as the sidewalls don't start to roll-over; at about 42psi they started to feel a little greasy.
Turn-in and responsiveness were excellent. The grip was very strong as well, with good communication at the limit and a nice manageable "rolling" break-away point. I intended to push them harder on the dry to experiment more with their limits, but then the rain set in...
In the wet, I expected them to be a bit of a handicap. I was wrong. I slowly ratcheted-up the speed, and was shocked at how much grip was available with these tires. There were cars that were running similar times to me in the dry, that I literally lapped in a 25-minute rain session. Very confidence-inspiring.
After the 6 sessions over 2 days (175 miles or so), no chunking of any sort, and the wear looked nice and even without much sidewall roll-over wear. (I also logged 300 miles or so on them to break them in before the track days.)

These will be my dedicated track tire; they're certainly OK for the road, although it's worth noting that they are loud... as in, they sound like a helicopter when rolling down the highway. But I could live with it if I wanted to run this type of tire year round.
For the time being, I like the idea of a street tire (at least, an "extreme performance"-rated street tire) for the track... the near-limit communication and break-away characteristics help provide good feedback to learn from. R-comps can mask bad habits until you exceed the limits, at which point they break away abruptly. I'll save those for when I'm in the Advanced run group... hopefully in a dedicated track car ; )

By the way, I was running camber plates with -2.5 degrees up front, and the car felt fantastic... very responsive and grippy, but still balanced and very stable in hard corners.
Also, the M Performance LSD made a HUGE difference from the last session at the same track... as did H&R sway bars. For the first time, I actually felt like I could make good use of more power.
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Last edited by DVC; 11-06-2014 at 03:59 PM..
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      11-08-2014, 03:02 PM   #20
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Awesome man, sounds like your setup is really singing out there! Having the mods work out is a fantastic feeling of accomplishment, especially fun to talk shop with fellow enthusiasts out at the track.
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      11-08-2014, 08:16 PM   #21
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If you have to chose between Dinan shockwave and anti-sway bars, what would you pick? I can't spend on both..and I like to upgrade one a time
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      11-08-2014, 09:25 PM   #22
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If you have to chose between Dinan shockwave and anti-sway bars, what would you pick? I can't spend on both..and I like to upgrade one a time
That's a good question... I did the Dinan springs and Shockware in separate steps (as they were released). When I changed the springs, I immediately noticed a huge improvement over stock; when I added the software, the change seemed less significant, more just a refinement. Sway bars were another significant improvement.
Between springs and sway bars, it would be a tough call... both help a lot. Springs are cheaper, and a much easier install, so if money's tight, that would probably be the best bang for the buck.
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