Base Carrera vs new M3

[rosenbergendo]

http://jalopnik.com/is-the-bmw-m4-fa...rac-1613383361

[AustinYellowMakesMeHard]

Ugh I hate the comments section of that article. Buncha internet keyboard warriors spouting misinformation. There's one guy saying that the Carreras is as practical as the m4.

[Money2536]

Originally Posted by AustinYellowMakesMeHard

Ugh I hate the comments section of that article. Buncha internet keyboard warriors spouting misinformation. There's one guy saying that the Carreras is as practical as the m4.

I've been driving mine everyday for a few weeks now after selling the S4. The only issue I could see is having to load some plywood.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by AustinYellowMakesMeHard

Ugh I hate the comments section of that article. Buncha internet keyboard warriors spouting misinformation. There's one guy saying that the Carreras is as practical as the m4.

I'm sure there are a lot of ignorant comments/haters but it may also be a reflection of the public's perception whether it's true or not. Outside of this forum the feeling I get is that BMW as of late is the favorite punching bag amongst the general population of car enthusiasts and journalists. Now, should we care? No. But I think you're kidding yourself if you think that outside of this sphere that people are in love with BMW and M division lately as we are. As BMW caters to more non enthusiasts, the enthusiasts become more displeased.

[JoeFromPA]

I put this in another thread here, but the base 911 PDK is 500 pounds lighter than the M4 DCT curb weight. It's wheelbase is 14" shorter. It's lower, narrower, etc. - and it carries more rear rubber in a lighter, lower torque car.

From a performance standpoint, it's setup right.

[MarkY]

Originally Posted by trinim3

I'm sure there are a lot of ignorant comments/haters but it may also be a reflection of the public's perception whether it's true or not. Outside of this forum the feeling I get is that BMW as of late is the favorite punching bag amongst the general population of car enthusiasts and journalists. Now, should we care? No. But I think you're kidding yourself if you think that outside of this sphere that people are in love with BMW and M division lately as we are. As BMW caters to more non enthusiasts, the enthusiasts become more displeased.

I think this comment is spot-on. As much as I love BMW, I became disenchanted over the past couple of generations and kept holding out that they would return to their roots. Now that I actually need to replace my car, I started to think Porsche might be my answer but decided to give the new M3/M4 a look. While I still desire a 911, the M3/M4 is the way better value (if you consider a $70k+ car a value) and doesn't give up too much to a base 911 (in most typical driving situations). But I only know this because I looked hard at BMW again. All of the automotive reviews on BMW going "soft" hasn't helped their cause among enthusiasts.

[shortseller]

Agreed. Saving grace, the new M2, hope they don't blow it.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by shortseller

Agreed. Saving grace, the new M2, hope they don't blow it.

This^

[gmazet]

the x vs. y comparo's, fanboy flame wars etc are never going to go away and for some, who choose to participate in them, makes the hobby more fun and interesting. they race the brands vs each other in the Tudor series and it's great to align yourself with your fav mfg and then talk trash when they win... competition also leads to continuous one-upping improvements with us being the winners as the vettes, 911's and M's getting better and better each generation.

I welcome the comparo's and the fanboys/haters and the different flavors of go-fast that the auto mfg's are putting out there.

[ersin]

What would bigger rear tires do for the M4?


Cheers.

[jbraslins]

Regardless of which car wins, I thought the video was awesome. They way the described differences between cars turn by turn with two videos side by side was amazing. Great job EVO.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by ersin

What would bigger rear tires do for the M4?


Cheers.

More heat capacity. Possibly more lateral grip.

What's interesting to me is that they DID NOT OFFER A WIDER TIRE UPSIZE OPTION....

this indicates to me that the suspension is setup for this width tire (275) and that you may actually get inferior performance if you go up to 285/295/305 size rear tires.

That being said, there's plenty of room to improve track performance with simply the right compound.

[gmazet]

Originally Posted by jbraslins

Regardless of which car wins, I thought the video was awesome. They way the described differences between cars turn by turn with two videos side by side was amazing. Great job EVO.

+1 and he did have a lot of great things to say about the bmw engine and transmission. sounds like a matter of better/wider tires out back (like pcar has) and its a dead heat..

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by trinim3

I'm sure there are a lot of ignorant comments/haters but it may also be a reflection of the public's perception whether it's true or not. Outside of this forum the feeling I get is that BMW as of late is the favorite punching bag amongst the general population of car enthusiasts and journalists. Now, should we care? No. But I think you're kidding yourself if you think that outside of this sphere that people are in love with BMW and M division lately as we are. As BMW caters to more non enthusiasts, the enthusiasts become more displeased.

meh

it was exactly the same when the e9x m3 was released.

OMG ITS SO FAT AND HORRIBLE LOOKING AND SWOOPY. it has IDRIVE. etc....

same thing will happen when the f8x is replaced by the next gen. same old story 7 years later, then the cycle repeats

nothing to get excited about.

[fusionchicken]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

meh

it was exactly the same when the e9x m3 was released.

OMG ITS SO FAT AND HORRIBLE LOOKING AND SWOOPY. it has IDRIVE. etc....

same thing will happen when the f8x is replaced by the next gen. same old story 7 years later, then the cycle repeats

nothing to get excited about.

This about sums it up

[AustinYellowMakesMeHard]

Originally Posted by trinim3

I'm sure there are a lot of ignorant comments/haters but it may also be a reflection of the public's perception whether it's true or not. Outside of this forum the feeling I get is that BMW as of late is the favorite punching bag amongst the general population of car enthusiasts and journalists. Now, should we care? No. But I think you're kidding yourself if you think that outside of this sphere that people are in love with BMW and M division lately as we are. As BMW caters to more non enthusiasts, the enthusiasts become more displeased.

True and not true, at the same time. The latest reviews for most newer BMWs have been pretty positive, tbh. It's just that your typical 17 year old "enthusiast" (who's very active on the internet) LOVEs to hate BMW, and that's majority of the demographic that surfs jalopnik. I used to surf jalopnik a lot but then I realized that it's just a big circle jerk full of 17 year old hipsters. Very little actual discussion, mostly just unfunny rhetoric.

[M3OW]

Not to rag on the f8x but I've never seen any generation m3 lose as many comparison tests as this new model. Plus only a handful praise the new car while most complain and express somewhat disappointing reviews. I personally will reserve judgement till I actually have a real test drive with the car but you can not deny that this new m3 hasn't faired well in comparisons compared to previous models.

[J50]

Originally Posted by M3OW

Not to rag on the f8x but I've never seen any generation m3 lose as many comparison tests as this new model. Plus only a handful praise the new car while most complain and express somewhat disappointing reviews. I personally will reserve judgement till I actually have a real test drive with the car but you can not deny that this new m3 hasn't faired well in comparisons compared to previous models.

From what I've seen, most reviews have been positive and a few not the most complimentary.

Maybe I'm missing something?

[FogCityM3]

Like it or not, those comments can be seen as more reflective of a less biased enthusiast-based public at large (but probably not the general public at large, as you aptly put it). BMW M did change the definition of many aspects of what it takes to be an M car (forced induction, SUVs, heavier in case of M5/M6); between this and pouring salt on the wounds of tradition with the M4 nomenclature, enthusiasts get agitated when there is significant change from a previously successful formula. From BMW's perspective, as with any consumer products company, perception = reality and to overcome negative perceptions, they really need focus on WOW-ing people. Enthusiasts, while making up a very small % of the car buying public, get asked all the time about brands/cars by non-enthusiasts. There is a multiplicative effect of sorts, so in a way satisfying the enthusiast community can be seen as a way of building brand equity. Porsche, as an example, has perfected this by honing the 911 to near perfection and that does help sell its other vehicles.

Originally Posted by trinim3

I'm sure there are a lot of ignorant comments/haters but it may also be a reflection of the public's perception whether it's true or not. Outside of this forum the feeling I get is that BMW as of late is the favorite punching bag amongst the general population of car enthusiasts and journalists. Now, should we care? No. But I think you're kidding yourself if you think that outside of this sphere that people are in love with BMW and M division lately as we are. As BMW caters to more non enthusiasts, the enthusiasts become more displeased.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Like it or not, those comments can be seen as more reflective of a less biased enthusiast-based public at large (but probably not the general public at large, as you aptly put it). BMW M did change the definition of many aspects of what it takes to be an M car (forced induction, SUVs, heavier in case of M5/M6); between this and pouring salt on the wounds of tradition with the M4 nomenclature, enthusiasts get agitated when there is significant change from a previously successful formula. From BMW's perspective, as with any consumer products company, perception = reality and to overcome negative perceptions, they really need focus on WOW-ing people. Enthusiasts, while making up a very small % of the car buying public, get asked all the time about brands/cars by non-enthusiasts. There is a multiplicative effect of sorts, so in a way satisfying the enthusiast community can be seen as a way of building brand equity. Porsche, as an example, has perfected this by honing the 911 to near perfection and that does help sell its other vehicles.

You could change like 10 words in this and it would be the exact same bs people spouted about the e9x when it came out.

Oh and btw, the e46 and then e9x were the first models to make a big weight gain over it's predecessor, not the f10 m5.

[M3OW]

Originally Posted by J50

From what I've seen, most reviews have been positive and a few not the most complimentary.

Maybe I'm missing something?

Yeah looks like you are. Comparisons against the v6 jaguar, Mercedes c63, base 911 are a few examples of the f8x's disappointing reviews. I remember clearly the e92 beating the base 911 and c63 in comparison tests. In fact I don't remember the e92 losing a single comparison test. Maybe one test? At the end of its production?

[sharkfighter]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

I put this in another thread here, but the base 911 PDK is 500 pounds lighter than the M4 DCT curb weight. It's wheelbase is 14" shorter. It's lower, narrower, etc. - and it carries more rear rubber in a lighter, lower torque car.

From a performance standpoint, it's setup right.

In this Evo article PDK to DTC 911 was 137kg or 302lbs lighter. Still a lot of weight, has it been weighed 500lbs lighter else where PDK to DCT?