06-29-2014, 08:41 PM | #1 |
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Does S55 have Dry Sump Oil System or Not?
Obviously a Dry Sump oil system is a big plus for guys plan to track this car and would put this engine oil system on par with other track ready vehicles such as Corvette, GTR ect and help keep the engine from going BOOM
I am finding conflicting information as to whether or not the S55 does in fact have a Dry Sump. I was able to find this: "The engine oil supply system, too, reflects the extensive motor sport experience of BMW M GmbH. The low-weight magnesium oil sump, for example, features a special cover to limit movement of the oil under the effects of strong dynamic lateral acceleration" It reads like it appears to be a standard wet sump oil pan system with a baffel. Does anyone have a information/links regarding the oil system to show otherwise? |
06-29-2014, 09:10 PM | #3 |
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06-29-2014, 09:30 PM | #5 |
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Wet or dry sump?
It is wet sump, as was the E9X, which I don't think suffered any oiling problems.
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06-29-2014, 11:50 PM | #6 |
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According to Motortrend the M3/M4 have a dry sump...."Like Adrian Peterson,the M3/M4 are conditioned to high performance.Engineers opted for the dry-sump oiling and added two radiators anywhere they could"
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1004539 |
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06-30-2014, 12:43 AM | #7 | |
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Look at the picture just above, the oil is stored in the pan. This is not a dry sump system.
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06-30-2014, 05:37 AM | #8 |
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Very interesting how narrow the pan is at the pick-up point. Those clever Germans.
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06-30-2014, 08:20 AM | #9 |
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Its debatable whether or not the e9x had oiling issues on the track when running r-comps tires. Engines have gone boom at the track, the high rod bearing wear rates evidence and rod bearing failures that have occurred are not fully understood. Oiling could play a part?...I don't pretend to fully understand. I do know that Turner motorsport offered a dry sump system for the e9x which they run in all their race cars at a cost of $7200 for the parts alone. Most proper track cars have a dry sump system...Z06, GT3 ect....I'm sure you will find one in BMW DTM race car. Besides the benefits to combat lateral G force oiling issues, it also allows for most of the air bubbles in the oil to be removed before being pumped through the engine
See attached BMW's release document, Page 5 subsection specifically addresses the transmission and then mentions Dry Sump engine oil system?..., Page 10 Subsection specifically addresses the engine and their in no mention of Dry Sump but talks about a baffle for the oil pan...The release document is no completely clear?? In a Dry Sum I believe there is still a need for an shallow oil pan along with a pump to pump the oil into a collection unit. |
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06-30-2014, 08:41 AM | #10 |
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Sounds like BMW have gone the same way as Porsche. Porsche call this "integrated dry sump", which essentially likens the baffled area to the normally-external reservoir. In short, it's a ///Marketing exercise.
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06-30-2014, 09:23 AM | #11 |
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I have no deeper understanding in engineering, but could it be that the transmission has a dry sump, the engine a wet sump system? That's the way I read it up to now, although I don't know if it makes any sense.
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06-30-2014, 09:35 AM | #12 |
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Thanks what I was thinking as well...A dry sump for the DCT
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06-30-2014, 11:13 AM | #13 |
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It seems as if the //Marketing part about it is that they vaguely write about a dry sump system in paragraphs concerning the transmission, making it sound like this is for the engine, too, when in fact it isn't. But there actually is some kind of race proof oil pump that provides high g level resilience.
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06-30-2014, 11:31 AM | #14 |
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Some "dry sump" systems do maintain a traditional oil pan. One example is the 911. The 996 was the first to use this hybrid "dry" oil sump system. Older 911's had a more race car - oil dry sump system. I suspect BMW uses a system much like the current P-cars.
Here are a few closer up pics of the S55 engine seen at the BMW Museum lobby.
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06-30-2014, 12:51 PM | #15 |
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Looks wet sump to me. A few notes:
- That's a low capacity sump (which is good) -There are external oil coolers/radiators - how much oil do they hold and HOW IS OIL PUMPED TO THEM/OUT OF THEM - I don't see any return lines to the sump. A hybrid system, IIRC, maintains a seperate oil tank(s) and pumps oil back to the wet sump. - That sump design is interesting. Doesn't look like a whole lot of opportunity for the crankshaft to dip into the oil pool. Especially during hard driving, when the sump would be at reduced volume. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a baffled oil pan for track driving compared to dry sump. A dry sump system is advantageous but mainly at lowering the CoG of the engine while allowing for ALOT of oil volume - at the expense of extra weight and cost. The e9x m3 rod bearing problems do not appear to have anything to do with the wet sump setup. It appears that BMW made way to tight of tolerances on their rod bearings AND improper eccentricity. It has been documented that BMW has produced at least 4 new and different S65 rod bearings with different clearances/eccentricity WITHOUT any sort of public notice or rationale - the later ones have much better clearances/eccentricities. |
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06-30-2014, 01:20 PM | #16 | |
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Rod bearing issues
Quote:
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06-30-2014, 02:28 PM | #17 | |
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No, the S65 has rod bearing issues. It's not the early failure problems the S54 had when it came out with it's initial redline. But it's more lifetime issues that MAY or MAY NOT have been addressed in 2010+ models in the ~4th iteration of rod bearing part numbers for the s65. |
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06-30-2014, 03:04 PM | #18 |
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It appears the flat black plastic parts are the baffle, Seems like a small oil pan to me what's the oil capacity on this motor? Assumption is there no external oil tank/resivor to hold oil other than sump and oil cooler ?
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06-30-2014, 09:27 PM | #20 |
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Last two years at Cicuit of the Americas, I seen 4 different E9x M3's blow up. I suspect the abnormally grippy F1 track and r-comps are to blame for some of engines letting go. COTA has a couple turns with long high sustained G-loads.
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06-30-2014, 09:40 PM | #22 |
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Oil capacity
Only 6.5L (6.87Q).
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