BMW M4 Car and Driver Lightning Lap times are out

[rick berry]

These C7 fans should be concerned that BOTH the Lighning lap C7 and the long term C7 that Car and Driver tested, blew up. I like the C7, but not as a daily driver.

[ajvee]

M5 slower than E63 by 5 seconds! Very impressive for MB

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by gthal

What's interesting is the article mentioned almost nothing about the resurfacing and the impact on times. Again, not that it doesn't impact it, but you would think it would have been discussed more fully if they believed it made a "hugely" significant impact.

Because Car and Driver magazine is a business. Mentioning the repaving of the track only brings into question years lap times that cost who knows how much money to gather.

Yet just a few weeks ago during Tudor event all that was talked about was the new track surface.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by trinim3

In regards to the Focus ST time being so much quicker it actually has very little to do with repaving. At All. C&D specifically cited that last year they got very little seat time because they accidentally ran over the keyfob for the Focus ST very early on in the first day. This time around they had a full 3 days to get the time down by 4 seconds.

And that's another point to keep in mind, these times are the best times from several runs over three days of testing not just a single flying lap.

Please stop making claims if you haven't read the entire article.

Not just he ST my friend.

[Divexxtreme]

Originally Posted by M3guy3

So probably Z06`s are hitting the streets next summer.

First cars are expected to be in customer's hands January of '15.

[M3guy3]

Originally Posted by Divexxtreme

First cars are expected to be in customer's hands January of '15.

ahh right when half the country is covered in snow

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by M3guy3

ahh right when half the country is covered in snow

Most will sell in the south anyway probably. Yeee hawww

[Divexxtreme]

Originally Posted by M3guy3

ahh right when half the country is covered in snow

Whatever. Point is, January is when the first cars will be delivered.

[E90X]

All this blabbering and not one person mentions the front drive based CLA AMG put up a faster time than the M235i. That's the biggest shocker here. Other than the other AMG that beat the M4. Since when did Mercedes learn how to corner? Bottom line, you want a car that has the fastest lap time or the one that's the most enjoyable to flog on a daily basis. That said I'd take the Cayman over every last one of these.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by E90X

All this blabbering and not one person mentions the front drive based CLA AMG put up a faster time than the M235i. That's the biggest shocker here. Other than the other AMG that beat the M4. Since when did Mercedes learn how to corner?

For a long time now... The view they can't corner is old school. The LCI C63 coupe was a great handling car and faster at the 'Ring than the E92 M3.

[1stm3f80]

Originally Posted by FC4

Cool.

But the boat that an average 918 owner has will dwarf the boat you bought with that money.

Yeah they would prob take a chopper out to boat as well.

[BenchRacerYo]

Originally Posted by gthal

The LCI C63 coupe was a great handling car and faster at the 'Ring than the E92 M3.

Well, that's just not true at all.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by BenchRacerYo

Well, that's just not true at all.

Yes, it is.

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

C63 AMG 8:01
E92 M3 8:05

[gthal]

Originally Posted by BenchRacerYo

Well, that's just not true at all.

Do some research... E92 M3 was 8:05. C63 coupe was 8:01. I'm waiting for the "if it was a short track the M3 would have been faster" reply.

Man, it's amazing how bias around here can skew perspective. Although I suppose I'm included in that too

[bluekn8286]

I am actually disappointed that the M4 didn't get closer to the Vette. I know the Vette is a more purpose built vehicle, but the gap shouldn't be that large.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by bluekn8286

I am actually disappointed that the M4 didn't get closer to the Vette. I know the Vette is a more purpose built vehicle, but the gap shouldn't be that large.

What's intriguing is that the C7 only gets 4 mph (148mph) higher peak speed than the M4 (144mph) so most of the delta is still coming in the corners rather than the straights. The F-Type R which was slightly slower than the M4 has a higher pead speed by 6mph (150mph)

I always thought the M in past gens was better handling than the base Vette (different for the more extreme versions of the Vette) but didn't have the straight-line punch. This time it seems like the base Vette is better handling and faster.

[TSM330i]

Originally Posted by trinim3

What's intriguing is that the C7 only gets 4 mph (148mph) higher peak speed than the M4 (144mph) so most of the delta is still coming in the corners rather than the straights. The F-Type R which was slightly slower than the M4 has a higher pead speed by 6mph (150mph)

I always thought the M in past gens was better handling than the base Vette (different for the more extreme versions of the Vette) but didn't have the straight-line punch. This time it seems like the base Vette is better handling and faster.

Not actually true. A standard Z51 equipped Vette in 2008 ran a 3:01.2 and an M3 (e92) ran a 3:05.6.

For those of you that think the Camaro is all tires and that's it. The hosts initially thought it was the tires and the more they dug deeper into what made the car so quick and so much fun, they realized it is the complete package and the GM engineers worked wonders with this car.
Watch this:

[BenchRacerYo]

Originally Posted by gthal

Do some research... E92 M3 was 8:05. C63 coupe was 8:01. I'm waiting for the "if it was a short track the M3 would have been faster" reply.

Man, it's amazing how bias around here can skew perspective. Although I suppose I'm included in that too

To be honest, I haven't checked where the M3 and C63 stand in a while. How new is that C63 time? I must have been looking at the old sedan time.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

Not actually true. A standard Z51 equipped Vette in 2008 ran a 3:01.2 and an M3 (e92) ran a 3:05.6.

I think that's the point of what everyone's saying. In the past the delta (4 seconds as opposed to 7 seconds) was on par with what you'd expect from the Vette being faster in the straight-line.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by trinim3

I think that's the point of what everyone's saying. In the past the delta (4 seconds as opposed to 7 seconds) was on par with what you'd expect from the Vette being faster in the straight-line.

The C6 Corvette would also out handle an E92 M3. A C6 Grand Sport (equivalent to a Z51 in the C7) was a track monster. I didn't like the C6 for other reasons but it's performance in almost every way would top an M3. They only had 430 HP so the were pulling on the M3 in the straights but also in the corners and braked harder too. Corvettes got a bad rap from old generations.

The C7, however, was a huge leap for the Corvette which, IMO, is why the gap widened.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by gthal

The C6 Corvette would also out handle an E92 M3. A C6 Grand Sport (equivalent to a Z51 in the C7) was a track monster. I didn't like the C6 for other reasons but it's performance in almost every way would top an M3. They only had 430 HP so the were pulling on the M3 in the straights but also in the corners and braked harder too. Corvettes got a bad rap from old generations.

The C7, however, was a huge leap for the Corvette which, IMO, is why the gap widened.

I guess but when I raced in a C6 GS at the track, it was so sloppy. It may have been b/c the track was slightly damp but that thing really struggled for grip. Could have also been the seats not holding me in place. The part I absolutely couldn't stand was that the gearbox was so sloppy and the throws were so long. Maybe on paper the base C6 was a better handler than the e92 but in terms of feel, I'd take an e92 all day. I know the C7 is much much better though.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by trinim3

I guess but when I raced in a C6 GS at the track, it was so sloppy. It may have been b/c the track was slightly damp but that thing really struggled for grip. Could have also been the seats not holding me in place. The part I absolutely couldn't stand was that the gearbox was so sloppy and the throws were so long. Maybe on paper the base C6 was a better handler than the e92 but in terms of feel, I'd take an e92 all day. I know the C7 is much much better though.

I bolded some of the areas where the C6 was less than stellar There were others (interior, fit/finish). However, my experience was it had huge grip and huge brakes... that could, I suppose, come down to tires and other factors but the car I experienced really surprised me. Like you, I would take an E92 over it every day of the week but that was because the whole package was much better. However, IMO, for a track dedicated car the C6 GS was a great option.