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      07-03-2018, 06:26 PM   #67
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Forget the side badging... the engine is pointing the wrong way.

Cornering flatter than I expected though.
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      07-03-2018, 07:52 PM   #68
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I built one,,, it was north of $53000 usd. Nuts!

For that price I can buy a base model M2.
Surprise young Bimmer Fan... no you can't... you'll need $60K to get into an M2 now !
The new M2 is light years better than the earlier one.
Not a single review yet so that's a gross overstatement

Well, at least it finally has a better motor than the M240. LOL
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      07-03-2018, 09:05 PM   #69
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This will be the American hot hatch BMW.

The U.S. version of M140i.
I wish. But no. The X2 is built on a front drive platform unfortunately. My E84 X1 looks to be the last of the rear drive small SUVs from BMW. That plus the ever larger 3 series may dictate that I go elsewhere on my next purchase. I know I'm not the mainstream buyer but I am what used to be their target market of a purchaser of the ultimate driving machine. Hopefully they'll find their way back to their roots even if only for a small part of their model lineup.
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      07-03-2018, 10:14 PM   #70
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I wish. But no. The X2 is built on a front drive platform unfortunately. My E84 X1 looks to be the last of the rear drive small SUVs from BMW. That plus the ever larger 3 series may dictate that I go elsewhere on my next purchase. I know I'm not the mainstream buyer but I am what used to be their target market of a purchaser of the ultimate driving machine. Hopefully they'll find their way back to their roots even if only for a small part of their model lineup.
I always love when people threaten to leave the brand because BMW stopped building something they were the only ones building in the first place. Yes, the new X1/X2/1-Series are “wrong wheel drive”. They seem to drive pretty darn well though. And what are you going to get instead, anyway? Show me who is making an E84 X1 today? It’s a short list, I can count them on zero fingers.
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      07-03-2018, 10:29 PM   #71
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FWD FTW !!!

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      07-03-2018, 10:32 PM   #72
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I always love when people threaten to leave the brand because BMW stopped building something they were the only ones building in the first place. Yes, the new X1/X2/1-Series are “wrong wheel drive”. They seem to drive pretty darn well though. And what are you going to get instead, anyway? Show me who is making an E84 X1 today? It’s a short list, I can count them on zero fingers.
I think you might be missing the point - RWD was the distinguishing feature by which BMW acquired a dedicated following...so now they want to go FWD, why? To fit in with everyone else?

This seems quite stupid to me....
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      07-03-2018, 10:40 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Pyrat 2 View Post
I wish. But no. The X2 is built on a front drive platform unfortunately. My E84 X1 looks to be the last of the rear drive small SUVs from BMW. That plus the ever larger 3 series may dictate that I go elsewhere on my next purchase. I know I'm not the mainstream buyer but I am what used to be their target market of a purchaser of the ultimate driving machine. Hopefully they'll find their way back to their roots even if only for a small part of their model lineup.
I always love when people threaten to leave the brand because BMW stopped building something they were the only ones building in the first place. Yes, the new X1/X2/1-Series are “wrong wheel drive”. They seem to drive pretty darn well though. And what are you going to get instead, anyway? Show me who is making an E84 X1 today? It’s a short list, I can count them on zero fingers.
You are absolutely correct. There are no other options. I never shopped elsewhere for the last 17 years. Only BMWs. Now I will because they lost the differentiation. In case you are wondering I've purchased 2 E46s, 2 E36s, 1 E82, 1 E90, 1 E84, and 1 F87. All new except the E36s. Btw just bought my first non-BMW in 17 years earlier this year. So no threats here just action. Of course I'm not abandoning the brand if they have something interesting but at this point they've lost the attraction for me other than the M2 which I own. My wife's X1 is next up for replacement and it's replacement will be decided from several brands. Previously there was only one option - BMW. I'm simply stating that they have moved on to a bigger market and at least for their SUVs they have taken away any differentiation they had on their small SUV. I'm now the minority buyer that was attracted to the brand because of their focus on the driver experience. That is not their focus now. They are crazy successful with what they are doing. Unfortunately for me I'm not a mainstream buyer and I was attracted to their old philosophy.
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      07-04-2018, 12:23 AM   #74
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I am in a similar situation - being raised in SAAB:s, I wanted a, basically, RWD vehicle, which I found in X4.

I testdrove X2 at end of winter, and while it behaved in a good way on ice and snow at normal driving, it showed understeer, when pushed.

I have been looking at Alfa Stelvio, which is both nice looking and got good reviews for handling and it IS RWD based. Problem is quality and no nearby dealer.
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      07-04-2018, 08:43 AM   #75
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I was so excited. Finally a "proper" engine on the X2 just to find out the 35i badging now is a 4-cyl?

The US is the only country where BMW sells a 330i with a 4-cyl. It's essentially a 320/325i yet we love the "330" nomenclature as if it's a premium. And then we get the 328D (essentially an upbadged 320d which now is a 330d).

Moving on to 2018, we now get 4-cyl FWD Hatchback disguised as an SUV and we are all excited? :
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      07-04-2018, 09:37 AM   #76
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I was so excited. Finally a "proper" engine on the X2 just to find out the 35i badging now is a 4-cyl?

The US is the only country where BMW sells a 330i with a 4-cyl. It's essentially a 320/325i yet we love the "330" nomenclature as if it's a premium. And then we get the 328D (essentially an upbadged 320d which now is a 330d).

Moving on to 2018, we now get 4-cyl FWD Hatchback disguised as an SUV and we are all excited? :
Agree. The naming conventions worked years ago. Now you need a secret decoder ring with a different passcode every year. Oh well, not a big deal but it definitely does create confusion for buyers.
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      07-04-2018, 10:39 AM   #77
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I think you might be missing the point - RWD was the distinguishing feature by which BMW acquired a dedicated following...so now they want to go FWD, why? To fit in with everyone else?

This seems quite stupid to me....
1) They're only going FWD-based on their smallest cars, when they come out with FWD 3's, 5's, and 7's, THEN there's a problem.

2) Why are they going FWD on the small cars? Because small cars that are supposed to be practical that are RWD based are extremely limited in interior space, and that makes them uncompetitive in the market. The 1-Series sedan/hatch and X1/X2 aren't sports cars.
They're practical cars that are sporty. While staying RWD based would make them more attractive to a small group of enthusiast buyers, making a FWD/AWD 1-Series sedan/hatch and X1/X2 means the vehicles can remain small, but the cabins can be much roomier, which like it or not, is more valuable to more people in that segment.

So, they're here to stay, at least until they go electric, at which time they can make the cabin as big as they want because the shape of the car won't be dictated by needing to fit a long engine under a long hood. And while I get the "now I have to look at other cars" mentality, you're going to find the new versions are at least as compelling and sporty as any of the competition, if not more. The X1 and X2 continue to win comparison tests. We'll see how the 1-Series sedan and hatch do, but I don't see any reason why they wouldn't continue the trend. So you might not be able to get that RWD X1 again, but you can still get an excellent handling vehicle that is more fun than anything else you can get in the segment.
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      07-04-2018, 11:23 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by JRobUSC View Post
1) They're only going FWD-based on their smallest cars, when they come out with FWD 3's, 5's, and 7's, THEN there's a problem.

2) Why are they going FWD on the small cars? Because small cars that are supposed to be practical that are RWD based are extremely limited in interior space, and that makes them uncompetitive in the market. The 1-Series sedan/hatch and X1/X2 aren't sports cars.
They're practical cars that are sporty. While staying RWD based would make them more attractive to a small group of enthusiast buyers, making a FWD/AWD 1-Series sedan/hatch and X1/X2 means the vehicles can remain small, but the cabins can be much roomier, which like it or not, is more valuable to more people in that segment.

So, they're here to stay, at least until they go electric, at which time they can make the cabin as big as they want because the shape of the car won't be dictated by needing to fit a long engine under a long hood. And while I get the "now I have to look at other cars" mentality, you're going to find the new versions are at least as compelling and sporty as any of the competition, if not more. The X1 and X2 continue to win comparison tests. We'll see how the 1-Series sedan and hatch do, but I don't see any reason why they wouldn't continue the trend. So you might not be able to get that RWD X1 again, but you can still get an excellent handling vehicle that is more fun than anything else you can get in the segment.
Right, but the 3, 5, and 7 today are relative barges compared to the 3, 5, and 7 of even 10 years ago. My F80 is the same size as an E60 M5 - that should tell you something about the approach.

Aka, no one asked for these cars to increase in size (and weight) each generation - that's the approach BMW is taking. Have you ever been to Europe or Latin America? I travel to those areas of the world 15-20 times a year...and I am usually riding around in Golfs or something smaller with 3 other people who are roughly my size (almost 6', 190 lbs). The need for additional size is a myth that people continue to buy into....and seems to be especially American in its respective genesis.

BMW created the small, sporty, yet still practical segment. It's the original calling card of the 3er and 5er. So once again, there's no reason to give that up - people were quite happy with an E46 or E92 size-wise...and to trade an additional 2" of legroom for the company's calling card (RWD) seems, once again, idiotic to me. An inequitable sacrifice of an identity that took decades to build, and for what? Some measly sales of the 2er minivan? A rebadged Mini with a 1 or 2 moniker on it?

They might gain some first time sales with this approach, but they will inevitably lose the repetitive buyer who loves things like RWD, the option of MT, etc...like me - someone who has already left once for Porsche and would consider it again.

Consider this...why is the M2 the most beloved M car for sale at the moment? Why is the 1M one of the most beloved M cars ever? Because those cars are essentially the new age M3s...and the formula? Small, RWD, sporty, yet still practical. Why any company would throw that into the garbage is beyond comprehension...
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      07-04-2018, 11:35 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Pyrat 2 View Post
You are absolutely correct. There are no other options. I never shopped elsewhere for the last 17 years. Only BMWs. Now I will because they lost the differentiation. In case you are wondering I've purchased 2 E46s, 2 E36s, 1 E82, 1 E90, 1 E84, and 1 F87. All new except the E36s. Btw just bought my first non-BMW in 17 years earlier this year. So no threats here just action. Of course I'm not abandoning the brand if they have something interesting but at this point they've lost the attraction for me other than the M2 which I own. My wife's X1 is next up for replacement and it's replacement will be decided from several brands. Previously there was only one option - BMW. I'm simply stating that they have moved on to a bigger market and at least for their SUVs they have taken away any differentiation they had on their small SUV. I'm now the minority buyer that was attracted to the brand because of their focus on the driver experience. That is not their focus now. They are crazy successful with what they are doing. Unfortunately for me I'm not a mainstream buyer and I was attracted to their old philosophy.
Precisely.

The loss of the dedicated following, those like us who never even considered another brand, well that should matter to someone but it doesn't seem to.
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      07-04-2018, 01:07 PM   #80
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
I think you might be missing the point - RWD was the distinguishing feature by which BMW acquired a dedicated following...so now they want to go FWD, why? To fit in with everyone else?

This seems quite stupid to me....
1) They're only going FWD-based on their smallest cars, when they come out with FWD 3's, 5's, and 7's, THEN there's a problem.

2) Why are they going FWD on the small cars? Because small cars that are supposed to be practical that are RWD based are extremely limited in interior space, and that makes them uncompetitive in the market. The 1-Series sedan/hatch and X1/X2 aren't sports cars.
They're practical cars that are sporty. While staying RWD based would make them more attractive to a small group of enthusiast buyers, making a FWD/AWD 1-Series sedan/hatch and X1/X2 means the vehicles can remain small, but the cabins can be much roomier, which like it or not, is more valuable to more people in that segment.

So, they're here to stay, at least until they go electric, at which time they can make the cabin as big as they want because the shape of the car won't be dictated by needing to fit a long engine under a long hood. And while I get the "now I have to look at other cars" mentality, you're going to find the new versions are at least as compelling and sporty as any of the competition, if not more. The X1 and X2 continue to win comparison tests. We'll see how the 1-Series sedan and hatch do, but I don't see any reason why they wouldn't continue the trend. So you might not be able to get that RWD X1 again, but you can still get an excellent handling vehicle that is more fun than anything else you can get in the segment.
While I agree with just about everything you are saying, I do not find either the X1 or the X2 roomy from the drivers perspective.

And that ungodly gear shifter is the worst on any modern BMW.
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      07-04-2018, 01:12 PM   #81
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Now we are talking!
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      07-04-2018, 04:17 PM   #82
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I'm sorry but I HATE the emblem on the back side like that! Done.
That rear side Roundell...Deal breaker for me, cheesy.
The 1973 3.0 CLS had the BMW roundels mounted in the C pillars.
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      07-04-2018, 05:11 PM   #83
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While I agree with just about everything you are saying, I do not find either the X1 or the X2 roomy from the drivers perspective.

And that ungodly gear shifter is the worst on any modern BMW.
They’re both significantly roomier than the original X1, despite the exterior dimensions of the new one being smaller.

To the guy that said “no one asked for bigger cars, in other countries I’m used to riding in a Golf with three other 6’ 190lb people”, the Golf is a transverse engine, FWD vehicle. That’s why you can fit four 6’ 190lb people in one. Try that in the original X1, or an E46. You might not want a bigger car, but people do want more spacious cars, even if they’re small cars. If Bmw made an E46 today it would be praised for its dynamics and then lose every comparison because the A3 and A-class are more practical, which also happen to be pretty good dynamically. Don’t believe me? It already happens in Europe as the outgoing 1-series hatch matches up against Audi and Benz models. Should heritage matter to BMW? Sure. Should selling 1000 cars to one small enthusiast group outweigh selling 10000 to everyone else? No. You want BMW to keep doing what they were doing while everyone else changes. I’d rather BMW adapt. The three best selling Porsche’s are two SUV’s and a large luxury sedan. That’d have been heresy twenty years ago. Ask Kodak what happens when you don’t adapt to changes in the market.

They’re not going to please everyone all the time. But they are pleasing more people than they ever have, and that’s what allows them to build those M2’s. So keep adapting BMW, and hopefully there’s something you like when it comes time. On the plus side, if BMW doesn’t make it, no one else probably does either.
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      07-04-2018, 06:32 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by ORIGIN M. View Post
While I agree with just about everything you are saying, I do not find either the X1 or the X2 roomy from the drivers perspective.

And that ungodly gear shifter is the worst on any modern BMW.
The X1/X2 are smaller than the rest of the BMW line. Surely it's to be expected that they would be less roomy? I'm not clear how this is a problem unless you are tall and/or wide. I'm average size and I'm quite happy with the amount of space it has. Not sure what I would do with more space. I bought the X2 because it's smaller than the X1. I have no use for the additional space inside an X1, much less an X3. If you think the X1/X2 are too small, go for the X3, FFS. BMW offers the range from X1-X6 (soon to be X7/X8) to give people a choice.

I find most of your bitching and moaning about the X2 to be just that. No one said it's supposed to be an M2 or an X3M40i. I do agree with your comment about the shifter. It is truly horrible and does not belong in a BMW. When/if a new shifter becomes available, I will look into retrofitting it.
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      07-04-2018, 06:35 PM   #85
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Just wondering, how many people in this thread have actually driven an X2? Before I purchased mine, I drove an X1 and an X2 on the road and then I got to drive an X2 on an autocross course (alongside an X3M40i). The X2 is a fun car to drive, especially if you get on the throttle.
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      07-04-2018, 06:35 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by JRobUSC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ORIGIN M. View Post
While I agree with just about everything you are saying, I do not find either the X1 or the X2 roomy from the drivers perspective.

And that ungodly gear shifter is the worst on any modern BMW.
They’re both significantly roomier than the original X1, despite the exterior dimensions of the new one being smaller.

To the guy that said “no one asked for bigger cars, in other countries I’m used to riding in a Golf with three other 6’ 190lb people”, the Golf is a transverse engine, FWD vehicle. That’s why you can fit four 6’ 190lb people in one. Try that in the original X1, or an E46. You might not want a bigger car, but people do want more spacious cars, even if they’re small cars. If Bmw made an E46 today it would be praised for its dynamics and then lose every comparison because the A3 and A-class are more practical, which also happen to be pretty good dynamically. Don’t believe me? It already happens in Europe as the outgoing 1-series hatch matches up against Audi and Benz models. Should heritage matter to BMW? Sure. Should selling 1000 cars to one small enthusiast group outweigh selling 10000 to everyone else? No. You want BMW to keep doing what they were doing while everyone else changes. I’d rather BMW adapt. The three best selling Porsche’s are two SUV’s and a large luxury sedan. That’d have been heresy twenty years ago. Ask Kodak what happens when you don’t adapt to changes in the market.

They’re not going to please everyone all the time. But they are pleasing more people than they ever have, and that’s what allows them to build those M2’s. So keep adapting BMW, and hopefully there’s something you like when it comes time. On the plus side, if BMW doesn’t make it, no one else probably does either.
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      07-04-2018, 09:15 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRobUSC View Post
They’re both significantly roomier than the original X1, despite the exterior dimensions of the new one being smaller.

To the guy that said “no one asked for bigger cars, in other countries I’m used to riding in a Golf with three other 6’ 190lb people”, the Golf is a transverse engine, FWD vehicle. That’s why you can fit four 6’ 190lb people in one. Try that in the original X1, or an E46. You might not want a bigger car, but people do want more spacious cars, even if they’re small cars. If Bmw made an E46 today it would be praised for its dynamics and then lose every comparison because the A3 and A-class are more practical, which also happen to be pretty good dynamically. Don’t believe me? It already happens in Europe as the outgoing 1-series hatch matches up against Audi and Benz models. Should heritage matter to BMW? Sure. Should selling 1000 cars to one small enthusiast group outweigh selling 10000 to everyone else? No. You want BMW to keep doing what they were doing while everyone else changes. I’d rather BMW adapt. The three best selling Porsche’s are two SUV’s and a large luxury sedan. That’d have been heresy twenty years ago. Ask Kodak what happens when you don’t adapt to changes in the market.

They’re not going to please everyone all the time. But they are pleasing more people than they ever have, and that’s what allows them to build those M2’s. So keep adapting BMW, and hopefully there’s something you like when it comes time. On the plus side, if BMW doesn’t make it, no one else probably does either.
Based on every spec I could find the current X1 and E84 are essentually the same size, old X1 less than an inch longer and the new X1 less than an inch taller.
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      07-04-2018, 10:10 PM   #88
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I got to drive the X2 around as a loaner for a week and I'm not a big fan of it.

The emblems on the rear side pillars are very odd, both in the pictures and in person. If they removed the emblems I think it would look a whole lot better
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