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      05-18-2021, 09:38 AM   #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFW_M2C View Post
There is definitely turbo lag at low RPM with the S58.
Definitely less visible if you keep it at 3,500+ RPM
Which car are you talking about? F97/98, yes absolutely. G8x? Different world.
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      05-18-2021, 09:52 AM   #464
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Which car are you talking about? F97/98, yes absolutely. G8x? Different world.
G80 that I spent a few hours with
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      05-18-2021, 10:53 AM   #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Which car are you talking about? F97/98, yes absolutely. G8x? Different world.
G80 that I spent a few hours with
Hmmmm?

Must be a different G80 than I've spent a couple months driving?

Not trying to bust your balls. . . just do not agree with your assessment.

S58 is an absolute beast that responds to throttle input like wet on water.

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      05-18-2021, 12:53 PM   #466
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Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
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Originally Posted by DFW_M2C View Post
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Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Which car are you talking about? F97/98, yes absolutely. G8x? Different world.
G80 that I spent a few hours with
Hmmmm?

Must be a different G80 than I've spent a couple months driving?

Not trying to bust your balls. . . just do not agree with your assessment.

S58 is an absolute beast that responds to throttle input like wet on water.

///AVM
The b58 is a little beast

And while I haven't driven the s58 yet, I have no doubt it's capabilities are absolutely outstanding
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      05-18-2021, 04:34 PM   #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DFW_M2C View Post
There is definitely turbo lag at low RPM with the S58.
Definitely less visible if you keep it at 3,500+ RPM
Which car are you talking about? F97/98, yes absolutely. G8x? Different world.
Was just going to suggest that. I saw a few X3M reviews mention the lag there not really seen it on the M3/4 so perhaps largely inertia related.
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      05-18-2021, 06:48 PM   #468
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Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
Was just going to suggest that. I saw a few X3M reviews mention the lag there not really seen it on the M3/4 so perhaps largely inertia related.
Perhaps this discussion here is relevant to the s58, the G8X and lag.

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1819452
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      05-18-2021, 07:39 PM   #469
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Perhaps this discussion here is relevant to the s58, the G8X and lag.

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1819452
akkando

Of course, Bimmerpost is like any other forum of public opinion . . . everyone entitled to express their opinion on topics at hand. I respect that and only offer my own opinion based on my experiences.

You know my experiences, which recently include some Porsche turbo offerings, as well as the M2C S55 . . . all said, if the S58 suffers turbo lag, then there is no hope in the world that any turbo will ever suffice.

Of course, my reference to the S58 is from the perspective of well over 1,000 miles of G80 M3C seat time, and I have no idea how BMW engineers tuned the S58 or how it responds to the likes of an X3M Competition chassis.

I will close by stating this forum is plagued by pundits - not stating you are one of them - who bitch and moan in anticipation of what is coming, as well as after whatever model in reference is released. I already stated I will likely not get the G87 because I do not believe the move would represent an 'upgrade' in overall performance that is my central focus. Conversely, I have no doubt the G87 will be an incredible encore to the F87, worthy of transition.

In short, although everyone is entitled to their opinion, I am going to do my part to detract from pundits who are trying to dispel S58 performance; ZF8 performance; carbon fiber bucket seats that will presumably be available as an option with G87; G87 anticipated size/weight; etc.

The G87 will not be perfect. No car is perfect. However, you can bet dollars to donuts that BMW engineers are going to produce a special driver's experience when they release the G87.

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      05-18-2021, 08:30 PM   #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DFW_M2C View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Which car are you talking about? F97/98, yes absolutely. G8x? Different world.
G80 that I spent a few hours with
Hmmmm?

Must be a different G80 than I've spent a couple months driving?

Not trying to bust your balls. . . just do not agree with your assessment.

S58 is an absolute beast that responds to throttle input like wet on water.

///AVM
I have to agree with AVM. (There's a first for everything).

I drove the competition model on an extended drive so I can't speak for the de tuned version. It's pushed by a tidal wave.
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      05-20-2021, 06:31 AM   #471
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Just to let you know guys... I am not following this topic since I am too busy, but I got some new info.

Individual colors will be available on 2-Series and M2. 1-Series can be ordered with individual colors from September onwards. After three years of hearing it is coming, it is finally there. Production for Europe will be at Leipzig, and US markets will be in Mexico. They will divide it between those two factories.

Also G87 will have a head-up display for those of you who would love that feature. That is next to the carbon roof as an option, the choice between manual and automatic gearboxes and all the other interior features we have seen from the new M3 and M4.

S58 up front producing around 440 hp and other than that a similar power train set up to the M3 and M4. If I have more info, I will share it here.

MR
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      05-20-2021, 06:32 AM   #472
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
The b58 is a little beast

And while I haven't driven the s58 yet, I have no doubt it's capabilities are absolutely outstanding
S58 is a stunning engine. Only thing I really like about the new M3/M4.

MR
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      05-20-2021, 07:08 AM   #473
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S58 is a stunning engine. Only thing I really like about the new M3/M4.

MR
shame that the legislators are killing off a decent sound from the s58 though.....
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      05-20-2021, 08:44 AM   #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. View Post
Just to let you know guys... I am not following this topic since I am too busy, but I got some new info.

Individual colors will be available on 2-Series and M2. 1-Series can be ordered with individual colors from September onwards. After three years of hearing it is coming, it is finally there. Production for Europe will be at Leipzig, and US markets will be in Mexico. They will divide it between those two factories.

Also G87 will have a head-up display for those of you who would love that feature. That is next to the carbon roof as an option, the choice between manual and automatic gearboxes and all the other interior features we have seen from the new M3 and M4.

S58 up front producing around 440 hp and other than that a similar power train set up to the M3 and M4. If I have more info, I will share it here.

MR

Great info about individual colors finally being available.Is that confirmed for Leipzig and the Mexican plant.I assume that production for Canada will also come from the Mexican plant.To bad that BMW has cancelled European delivery.I would definitely pick up the new M2 in Germany to get my car built at the Leipzig plant.
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      05-20-2021, 09:21 AM   #475
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Originally Posted by MR. View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
The b58 is a little beast

And while I haven't driven the s58 yet, I have no doubt it's capabilities are absolutely outstanding
S58 is a stunning engine. Only thing I really like about the new M3/M4.

MR
Well that's fine, I don't like the car either

It's sad they screwed it up that bad

I hope the new M2 will kill it
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      05-20-2021, 10:32 AM   #476
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MR. and ///M TOWN

Of course, there is no right or wrong answer here. . . however, since each of you indicate you do not like the G80/82, I am curious to know what it is you do not like?

If you are turned off by the aesthetic design, well, I cannot argue with either of you there. Neither model appeals to my visual senses. I know a lot of individuals stop right there in their decision process. Perfectly valid if visual cues are paramount, and may be true in each of your cases.

This leaves us with performance, which is paramount when it comes to my own purchases interests . . . I am assuming neither of you own the G80/82? No seat time of significance, nor absorbing said seat time while the vehicle itself comes into its own?

After more than 1,000K of seat time, I am still familiarizing myself with the M3C. My impression thus far is that the M3C is an engineering masterpiece when it comes to spirited daily driving. I cannot speak of its ability on a track, but I would venture the vehicle offers more in terms of capability than most drivers possess in terms of ability or actual time that will ever be spent on the track vs roadways.

With regard to the upcoming G87 release . . . just as I personally feel the G80 represents a performance upgrade from the F87 M2C, I have no doubt the same will be said of the transition from the F87 to G87. Conversely, not sure the G87 will exceed the overall performance I have thus far experienced with the G80?

///AVM
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      05-20-2021, 01:11 PM   #477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
MR. and ///M TOWN

Of course, there is no right or wrong answer here. . . however, since each of you indicate you do not like the G80/82, I am curious to know what it is you do not like?

If you are turned off by the aesthetic design, well, I cannot argue with either of you there. Neither model appeals to my visual senses. I know a lot of individuals stop right there in their decision process. Perfectly valid if visual cues are paramount, and may be true in each of your cases.

This leaves us with performance, which is paramount when it comes to my own purchases interests . . . I am assuming neither of you own the G80/82? No seat time of significance, nor absorbing said seat time while the vehicle itself comes into its own?

After more than 1,000K of seat time, I am still familiarizing myself with the M3C. My impression thus far is that the M3C is an engineering masterpiece when it comes to spirited daily driving. I cannot speak of its ability on a track, but I would venture the vehicle offers more in terms of capability than most drivers possess in terms of ability or actual time that will ever be spent on the track vs roadways.

With regard to the upcoming G87 release . . . just as I personally feel the G80 represents a performance upgrade from the F87 M2C, I have no doubt the same will be said of the transition from the F87 to G87. Conversely, not sure the G87 will exceed the overall performance I have thus far experienced with the G80?

///AVM
The G80 is for me too sole less. It is really subdued and feels more like a M340i than a M3 on a daily basis. It is quick don't get me wrong, but it never feels like an experience to drive in comparison to the previous F-series car.

For me a M car is never first a quick car, but one that offers me an experience to drive and then it is also really quick. I need to feel special behind the wheel. The steering and the handling combined with a proper sound track needs to fuel my senses, and the M3 doesn't do this to me.

After I had driven one for like 650 km, I stepped out and was like.... OK this is it? Great car, really quick, but can I have my M2 back please. The M3C is super quick on track, immensely capable, but it feels more like a mini-M5, than a M3. It is grown up, feels mature and is therefore less of an occasion to drive. The smooth gearbox and absent exhaust sound are the biggest impact of it all for sure.

The external looks are not my thing, but I had hoped to find a car that really set itself apart as a drivers car, and it isn't on a daily basis. I would get a Giulia QV over it any time of the day, I would get a F80 M3 CS any time of the day. Also if I wanted a daily driver I would get a M5C or a Alpina B3.

The M3 for me is butt ugly at first, but secondly it is also emotionless and only is able to really set itself apart when you go ballistic and how often do you do that? The subdued nature is something a lot of cars have these days due to legislation and new restrictions.

I understand why it is, but it doesn't make cars more fun. At that to the fact the car only really comes into its own at mach 10 on the Autobahn or on track, and I am like that is not what I want to see in a M3.

It is also one of the reasons why I enjoy E46 M3's and M2 so much more than the M3 and M4's of this and previous generation. For me the M2 is all what is left of "Freude am fahren", all the rest are big heavy sedans with lots of power that are capable to hit mach 10 but which most people never even touch.

MR
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      05-20-2021, 01:22 PM   #478
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Originally Posted by MR. View Post
The G80 is for me too sole less. It is really subdued and feels more like a M340i than a M3 on a daily basis. It is quick don't get me wrong, but it never feels like an experience to drive in comparison to the previous F-series car.

For me a M car is never first a quick car, but one that offers me an experience to drive and then it is also really quick. I need to feel special behind the wheel. The steering and the handling combined with a proper sound track needs to fuel my senses, and the M3 doesn't do this to me.

After I had driven one for like 650 km, I stepped out and was like.... OK this is it? Great car, really quick, but can I have my M2 back please. The M3C is super quick on track, immensely capable, but it feels more like a mini-M5, than a M3. It is grown up, feels mature and is therefore less of an occasion to drive. The smooth gearbox and absent exhaust sound are the biggest impact of it all for sure.

The external looks are not my thing, but I had hoped to find a car that really set itself apart as a drivers car, and it isn't on a daily basis. I would get a Giulia QV over it any time of the day, I would get a F80 M3 CS any time of the day. Also if I wanted a daily driver I would get a M5C or a Alpina B3.

The M3 for me is butt ugly at first, but secondly it is also emotionless and only is able to really set itself apart when you go ballistic and how often do you do that? The subdued nature is something a lot of cars have these days due to legislation and new restrictions.

I understand why it is, but it doesn't make cars more fun. At that to the fact the car only really comes into its own at mach 10 on the Autobahn or on track, and I am like that is not what I want to see in a M3.

It is also one of the reasons why I enjoy E46 M3's and M2 so much more than the M3 and M4's of this and previous generation. For me the M2 is all what is left of "Freude am fahren", all the rest are big heavy sedans with lots of power that are capable to hit mach 10 but which most people never even touch.

MR
Perfectly said MR. Thanks for the input.
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      05-20-2021, 01:36 PM   #479
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The G80 is for me too soul-less. . . For me the M2 is all what is left of "Freude am fahren", all the rest are big heavy sedans with lots of power that are capable to hit mach 10 but which most people never even touch.

MR
Thank you Mr.

While I do not agree with you, I am certainly not going to argue with you . . . you know what you want, and it seems the G80/82 does not fit the bill.

To me, the G80 M3C is a better version of the F87 M2C that I truly enjoyed the hell out of for spirited daily driving.

///AVM
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      05-20-2021, 01:43 PM   #480
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Thank you Mr.

While I do not agree with you, I am certainly not going to argue with you . . . you know what you want, and it seems the G80/82 does not fit the bill.

To me, the G80 M3C is a better version of the F87 M2C that I truly enjoyed the hell out of for spirited daily driving.

///AVM
Just wait until you see the new M2C. You might want to come back to us here at the 87ers.

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      05-24-2021, 01:58 PM   #481
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From 10:34 the 'new M2?'



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      05-24-2021, 03:15 PM   #482
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From 10:34 the 'new M2?'
[VIDEO]
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Maybe it's the angle but the fenders don't look much M2
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      05-24-2021, 08:17 PM   #483
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Maybe it's the angle but the fenders don't look much M2
Same plate in this G42 photo set.
https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...ies-coup%C3%A9
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      05-24-2021, 08:53 PM   #484
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Just wait until you see the new M2C. You might want to come back to us here at the 87ers.

MR
Thanks to you both for great, respectful banter back and forth...we could all learn from this, lol.
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