[saeyedoc]

They initially said we could use any 8 week period since we closed to document payroll numbers for forgiveness, now it's the 8 weeks following funding of the loan.

[stevenc]

Yup it is exactly 8 weeks from the date you were funded. Also if you have things like bonuses or 401k's that you normally fund at year end, consider funding during your 8 week period to help cover your numbers.

You also have to maintain your head count. You must have the same head count as either the beginning of 2020 or this same time period in 2019. Head count cutoff is as of June 30, 2020 so as long as you rehire people by June 30, 2020 they will count.

Since the final headcount cutoff is as of June 30, 2020, the loan forgiveness wont begin until at least the 3rd quarter, if not later...

[hubbahubba]

Originally Posted by R N M

My understanding is SBA issues only one E-tran # per Tax ID.
Many businesses have applied with multiple lenders hence why It makes sense for SBA to take such action. Could there have been a mix up in your case? Sure. I just find that to be unlikely. Its more likely this lender maybe leveraging the PPP program to get new clients and make some $$$. (SBA pays lender fees for each loan they process based on amount)

OK, thank you. In your earlier post, you suggested that I should maybe sway my anger towards the local bank instead of Wells. Well, it has had the opposite effect. Obviously Wells knew they had my number first, and would have first crack no matter how long they delayed my loan, yet almost every day they sent an email saying that they did not think they would get it done and I should look elsewhere. The only solace I take is that the time I have spent getting set up elsewhere is not wasted, as it get's me away from Wells. Have been thinking about it, and dreading the pita necessary to do it for years. They just helped me move on it. So in essence, thank you Wells Fargo for finally giving me reason enough for getting away from you.

[dsad1]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

OK, thank you. In your earlier post, you suggested that I should maybe sway my anger towards the local bank instead of Wells. Well, it has had the opposite effect. Obviously Wells knew they had my number first, and would have first crack no matter how long they delayed my loan, yet almost every day they sent an email saying that they did not think they would get it done and I should look elsewhere. The only solace I take is that the time I have spent getting set up elsewhere is not wasted, as it get's me away from Wells. Have been thinking about it, and dreading the pita necessary to do it for years. They just helped me move on it. So in essence, thank you Wells Fargo for finally giving me reason enough for getting away from you.

How is the restaurant doing? Any uptick in sales? Did restrictions ease up at all in your area?

I can't beleive you still don't have PPP funds, the system needs to be fixed.

[hubbahubba]

Originally Posted by dsad1

How is the restaurant doing? Any uptick in sales? Did restrictions ease up at all in your area?

I can't beleive you still don't have PPP funds, the system needs to be fixed.

Thank you for asking. We are holding our own through take out, by that I mean lights are on and doors are open. In Az, on Monday restaurants are allowed to open in house dining again, of course with social distance in place. We have removed more than half of our tables and chairs, and have a skeleton crew that will be able to fill the needs of our customers come Monday.

I think I mentioned in a post above, I am actually relieved that we did not get the funds now. As screwy as this thing has been, I can't help but think that something too good to be true usually is. If Wells does finally tell us we are good, we will not sign the note. Thank you again for asking, much appreciated.

How are things in your area? Seeing any signs of life? How are tenants holding up?

[dsad1]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

Thank you for asking. We are holding our own through take out, by that I mean lights are on and doors are open. In Az, on Monday restaurants are allowed to open in house dining again, of course with social distance in place. We have removed more than half of our tables and chairs, and have a skeleton crew that will be able to fill the needs of our customers come Monday.

I think I mentioned in a post above, I am actually relieved that we did not get the funds now. As screwy as this thing has been, I can't help but think that something too good to be true usually is. If Wells does finally tell us we are good, we will not sign the note. Thank you again for asking, much appreciated.

How are things in your area? Seeing any signs of life? How are tenants holding up?

That's good to hear. Our restaurant tenants are fairing well, most got PPP funds and were very excited about that. We did have one say that they are closing shop, but that was likely to happen either way.

Texas is at 25% occupancy for restaurants, but most are choosing to stick to to-go only until we hit the 50% mark. A lot of the restaurant owners are very happy with the curbside pickup infrastructure they put in, and believe that will increase their sales during normal times as well.

[Drv4fun]

PPP is a smokescreen - its a bank bailout under the covers, otherwise the gov would process and pay directly.

[turbo_joe]

Originally Posted by turbo_joe

I have been following this thread but never posted...

I am the VP for my families commercial HVAC company, we have been steadily working full time with no layoffs but over half my jobs have been shut down. Working hard to keep all my employees their 40+ hours a week as long as they want to work. We have 23 employees total.

But update for my company. Applied for EIDL within the first few days that option existed and got $10k about three weeks ago.
I applied for the PPP at the end of the first round and got stuck in limbo. This time around I finally got approved and I am suppose to see the funding in the next 5-10 days (minus the 10k from the EIDL) I went through Square as I was tired of dealing with a couple of my local banks. I was approved for the equivalent of four weeks of payroll.

I will update once the money actually comes into the account.

Update...

PPP funds hit my operating account yesterday. Took just under 10 days from approval to deposit.

[BimmerDimmer6]

Originally Posted by Drv4fun

PPP is a smokescreen - its a bank bailout under the covers, otherwise the gov would process and pay directly.

Holy shit never thought about this. No way though.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by Drv4fun

PPP is a smokescreen - its a bank bailout under the covers, otherwise the gov would process and pay directly.

Government doesn’t have the capacity to process themselves. It’s really no different than buying mortgages written by banks.

[BimmerDimmer6]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Government doesn’t have the capacity to process themselves. It’s really no different than buying mortgages written by banks.

Except the government doesn't back those loans unless FHA.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Drv4fun

PPP is a smokescreen - its a bank bailout under the covers, otherwise the gov would process and pay directly.

I don’t see any positives for the big banks to administer this program.
They are already being sued in regards to it, negative publicity, existing clients are upset at poor follow up etc.

If anything the banks were told to do it and not given option to say no.

It’s also costing the banks tremendous $$$ and time to run this program. They have thousands of employees and tech resources devoted to this.

Are banks perfect- hell no. But they are Not the bad guys this time around.

[KenB925]

Originally Posted by Drv4fun

PPP is a smokescreen - its a bank bailout under the covers, otherwise the gov would process and pay directly.

Originally Posted by R N M

I don’t see any positives for the big banks to administer this program.
They are already being sued in regards to it, negative publicity, existing clients are upset at poor follow up etc.

If anything the banks were told to do it and not given option to say no.

It’s also costing the banks tremendous $$$ and time to run this program. They have thousands of employees and tech resources devoted to this.

Are banks perfect- hell no. But they are Not the bad guys this time around.

I think you're both right.

Early reports/rumors were that banks were funding people who already had substantial debt with the bank thereby protecting them from default.

You're also right about this making the bank look bad, frustrating customers, and really not gaining a lot from it.

I will take it one step further, because of these loans banks will not have the opportunity to make more profitable traditional loans to businesses in the coming couple of years.

[OnlyGerman]

Originally Posted by turbo_joe

Update...

PPP funds hit my operating account yesterday. Took just under 10 days from approval to deposit.

This sounds about right for timing- once papers are signed, money should be wired quite shortly after.

[9M71]

Question for you guys here, and any advice would be greatly appreciated.

My wife's employer just received approval for the PPP and informed their employees. She (and as all staff in their dental office), are employed on a hourly basis. The employer stated that employees will be paid based on the average weekly income based on their last year's 1st quarter, or this year's 1st quarter amount, which is a bit suspicious. My question is below...

Does the PPP specify a formula in calculating employee's pay and what time period(s) they can use? Looking on the googles, it sounds like companies who are "Seasonal Businesses" can use the highest payroll during a specific period of the CY. Otherwise "Regular Businesses" have to use an entire calendar year.

This is suspect because typically the first quarter for any dental office is dead (which equates to less hours/work). Most patients use up their dental insurance allowances in Q4 so appointments take a nose dive in Q1. Before agreeing to anything with the employer and foregoing unemployment, we want to ensure nothing fishy is going on.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all!

[BimmerDimmer6]

Originally Posted by 9M4N71U

Question for you guys here, and any advice would be greatly appreciated.

My wife's employer just received approval for the PPP and informed their employees. She (and as all staff in their dental office), are employed on a hourly basis. The employer stated that employees will be paid based on the average weekly income based on their last year's 1st quarter, or this year's 1st quarter amount, which is a bit suspicious. My question is below...

Does the PPP specify a formula in calculating employee's pay and what time period(s) they can use? Looking on the googles, it sounds like companies who are "Seasonal Businesses" can use the highest payroll during a specific period of the CY. Otherwise "Regular Businesses" have to use an entire calendar year.

This is suspect because typically the first quarter for any dental office is dead (which equates to less hours/work). Most patients use up their dental insurance allowances in Q4 so appointments take a nose dive in Q1. Before agreeing to anything with the employer and foregoing unemployment, we want to ensure nothing fishy is going on.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all!

I mean even if it's a 50% pay cut why the hell would you have her be out of a job and go on unemployment? I'd retain any income I could right now. Unemployment will always be there.

[9M71]

Originally Posted by BimmerDimmer6

I mean even if it's a 50% pay cut why the hell would you have her be out of a job and go on unemployment? I'd retain any income I could right now. Unemployment will always be there.

Unfortunately it's a little more complicated than that.

She splits her time between two employers. 90%+ at one office and only a day a week at the other. Unfortunately it's the 1 day a week office that applied for the PPP and the pay will be just enough to knock her off any unemployment, but will actually be less than what she was getting from the enhanced UI.

If she "quits" the 1 day a week office now then it may disqualify her from unemployment completely.

If both offices were applying for PPP it'd be a lot more clear cut on what to do. but it's only 1 office of her 2 and unfortunately the one where she spends very little time at.

[stevenc]

^ The PPP loan does not require employers pay employees based on any formula or scale. The PPP loan has no rules about employee compensation. Someone could get the PPP and fire all employees or pay them mimimum wage.

All the PPP does is specify that if the business wishes to get the PPP loan forgiven, they have to spend at least 75% of the loan on payroll and 25% on certain other expenses.

[BimmerDimmer6]

Originally Posted by stevenc

^ The PPP loan does not require employers pay employees based on any formula or scale. The PPP loan has no rules about employee compensation. Someone could get the PPP and fire all employees or pay them mimimum wage.

All the PPP does is specify that if the business wishes to get the PPP loan forgiven, they have to spend at least 75% of the loan on payroll and 25% on certain other expenses.

Can companies pay employees minimum wage and still have the loan forgiven though? I was under the impression they were required to allocate 70% of funds towards payroll, that being their normal pay. If they were making 20 bucks an hour they should continue making that throughout PPP terms.

Could be wrong.

[stevenc]

Originally Posted by BimmerDimmer6

Can companies pay employees minimum wage and still have the loan forgiven though? I was under the impression they were required to allocate 70% of funds towards payroll, that being their normal pay. If they were making 20 bucks an hour they should continue making that throughout PPP terms.

Could be wrong.

The only requirements for forgiveness are that you spend 75% on payroll and keep your # of employees the same as before the virus hit.

I could cut all my employees pay 20% and still hit the 75% mark. Its purely a math equation.

[9M71]

Originally Posted by BimmerDimmer6

Can companies pay employees minimum wage and still have the loan forgiven though? I was under the impression they were required to allocate 70% of funds towards payroll, that being their normal pay. If they were making 20 bucks an hour they should continue making that throughout PPP terms.

Could be wrong.

Yeah this was my understanding as well, with the 70(?)% being allocated towards payroll, and that employees have to be paid at their normal rates (maxed out at $100k/annual for higher paid earners) / hours in order for the loan to be forgivable (in addition to the headcount requirement).

If an employer can reduce an employee to minimum wage, wouldn't that really screw the employee over? If they don't accept the employment (at the 'new' low rate) then that would make them ineligible for UI as they refused work? Not sure.

[383vett]

Originally Posted by 9M4N71U

Question for you guys here, and any advice would be greatly appreciated.

My wife's employer just received approval for the PPP and informed their employees. She (and as all staff in their dental office), are employed on a hourly basis. The employer stated that employees will be paid based on the average weekly income based on their last year's 1st quarter, or this year's 1st quarter amount, which is a bit suspicious. My question is below...

Does the PPP specify a formula in calculating employee's pay and what time period(s) they can use? Looking on the googles, it sounds like companies who are "Seasonal Businesses" can use the highest payroll during a specific period of the CY. Otherwise "Regular Businesses" have to use an entire calendar year.

This is suspect because typically the first quarter for any dental office is dead (which equates to less hours/work). Most patients use up their dental insurance allowances in Q4 so appointments take a nose dive in Q1. Before agreeing to anything with the employer and foregoing unemployment, we want to ensure nothing fishy is going on.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all!

I will have the opposite problem in my dental office. I will end up giving the staff bonuses at the end of the 8 weeks when the ppp funding is supposed to be used up. The staff is being paid now an average of their previous wages, (unlike your wife's office, we are very busy at the beginning of the year when new insurance maximums kick in and patients have been waiting for a chance to spend new insurance monies). At the end of 8 weeks I will need to give them bonuses to use up the 75% of the monies for wages. The irony here is that dentists in the Bay Area are not allowed to reopen and I am approaching the two week mark since my funding. I assume we will be closed at least until June which means that half my time to use up the funding will have been used up and I will have seen no patients. A colleague of mine received his funding and unemployment pays more than their normal wages. All but one opted to stay on unemployment and he will need to return most of his ppp money. Back to your wife's situation, is unemployment paying her more than her wages at work? There is a lot to be worked out with the ppp funding that has not yet been written. I believe in the next few weeks, there will be new information about the ppp fund usage to clarify the current situation.