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      06-02-2022, 04:29 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Some people's Broncos have been built for months (modules and all) there are not enough trucks to ship them... cough-cough.

Maybe manufacturers will start designing cars without all the BS tech in them to keep away from 3rd world supply chain sources... I'll be happy to pay more for domestic sourcing of parts.
I definitely agree with all the BS tech added to cars....more technology prone to breaking apart. More technology makes people more distracted at driving.... Electronic dashboards, Ipads stuck to dash, disco LED lights all over...not cool. Keep it simple, good handling cars, good sound system, thats all you need.
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      06-02-2022, 04:37 PM   #46
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Ill just leave these here!







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      06-02-2022, 09:26 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Piper1 View Post
You might not care but I take great pride being able to walk my son up to a f150 and be able to point and say see that. I machined this along with your uncle and it’s what puts food on our table.
Nope, I definitely can respect that.
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      06-03-2022, 12:14 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
Nah. They are all the same for the most part with maybe Dodge pulling in the rear a little because of Jeep. I have owned good and bad from all the domestics as there's not much to choose between them as you nearly always get build and interior quality a level below the Japanese and Germans and the key is to accept them on a value level. It's why the Corvette and pony cars are so great as you get a lot of performance for the dollar. Their SUV's and regular cars are only viable when highly discounted. That's kind of where the Bronco and Jeeps fail as they are overpriced for what are pretty shoddily put together vehicles. Doesn't change the fact that I wanted one because the Bronco is pretty cool and carries a lot of nostalgia.
What can be purchased new from Japanese and Germans, that can off-road out of the box to the level of a Rubicon Wrangler? The value is there for someone who offroads or does overlanding. I would not call the Rubicon Wrangler overpriced. Owners thrash the hell out of them rock crawling and they hold up quite well. They can go straight off the dealer lot to Moab and tackle some of highest rated trails. I would not call them "shoddily" built. Bronco longterm reliability offroad has yet to be seen, so far they are quite capable.
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      06-03-2022, 05:24 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
i agree a 21 shouldnt take 1.5-2yrs. based on what ive seen, its been closer to 8-12 months once they officially went in to production and people without reservations started ordering. the hard top was one of the issues, but the latest issues ford is facing is much more than just that. everything from LEDs to seats to chips and everything in between.

but moving forward, and since about january, ford has been delaying delivery timelines on everything every month. like i said, F150s went from about 4 months earlier this year to now 8-12+ months. i dont know how many orders they have for broncos, or how many they plan on producing, but its a safe bet its gonna be at least that and most likely more once 2023s order banks open. Id be happy to be wrong, but right now, its only getting worse.
I think a major issue is the supply chain from Asia and mostly China. I think COVID killed a lot more people in China than what the Communist Chinese government leads the world to believe. I think China has a serious lack of skilled and trained labor to backfill its lost manufacturing workforce. Throw on top the Russian attack on Ukraine and the drop in industrial gases production used for chip manufacturing and it's become a serious mess.
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      06-03-2022, 06:42 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
My brother wanted to test drive one so I rode along. It's definitely a toy as it has laughable NVH for today's day and age. Rattling galore, insane wind noise. This was the soft top model btw.

Would be a fun vehicle though if used for off roading, beach trips, etc.
Quality is(n't) job one.
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      06-03-2022, 07:43 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
What can be purchased new from Japanese and Germans, that can off-road out of the box to the level of a Rubicon Wrangler? The value is there for someone who offroads or does overlanding. I would not call the Rubicon Wrangler overpriced. Owners thrash the hell out of them rock crawling and they hold up quite well. They can go straight off the dealer lot to Moab and tackle some of highest rated trails. I would not call them "shoddily" built. Bronco longterm reliability offroad has yet to be seen, so far they are quite capable.
Their off-road capability is immaterial when discussing build quality and reliability.
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      06-03-2022, 08:41 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
What can be purchased new from Japanese and Germans, that can off-road out of the box to the level of a Rubicon Wrangler? The value is there for someone who offroads or does overlanding. I would not call the Rubicon Wrangler overpriced. Owners thrash the hell out of them rock crawling and they hold up quite well. They can go straight off the dealer lot to Moab and tackle some of highest rated trails. I would not call them "shoddily" built. Bronco longterm reliability offroad has yet to be seen, so far they are quite capable.



Last edited by OkieSnuffBox; 06-03-2022 at 08:46 AM..
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      06-03-2022, 11:54 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Chihuahua View Post
Quality is(n't) job one.
Lol. A marketing slogan from an ad guy in 1980...

A little outdated.
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      06-03-2022, 12:00 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
Their off-road capability is immaterial when discussing build quality and reliability.
Because BMW never delivered a design where the rear subframe cracks. Or where HPFP failures require a 10-year warranty campaign. Or, even a simple heated air valve in a crank case ventilation system that melts and catches fire (2 recalls...)

Oh, and the one where the engine moves in its mounts enough that the PS pulley hits the frame and the serp belt pops off and gets wrapped behind the balancer into and thru the front crank seal and leaves rubber and steel shards in the sump.

BMW the German engineering POWERHOUSE!

Just sayin'

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 08-06-2022 at 12:50 PM..
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      06-03-2022, 12:50 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Because BMW never delivered a design where the rear subframe cracks. Or where HPFP failures require a 10-year warranty campaign. Or, even a simple heated air valve in a crank case ventilation system melts and catches fire (2 recalls...)

Oh, and the one where the engine moves in its mounts enough that the PS pulley hits the frame and the serp belt pops off and gets wrapped behind the balancer into and thru the front crank seal and leaves rubber and steel shards in the sump.

BMW the German engineering POWERHOUSE!

Just sayin'
I'm not sure what any of that has to do with Jeep or Bronco reliability/build quality. You aren't very good at this are you?
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      06-03-2022, 01:17 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
Nah. They are all the same for the most part with maybe Dodge pulling in the rear a little because of Jeep. I have owned good and bad from all the domestics as there's not much to choose between them as you nearly always get build and interior quality a level below the Japanese and Germans and the key is to accept them on a value level. It's why the Corvette and pony cars are so great as you get a lot of performance for the dollar. Their SUV's and regular cars are only viable when highly discounted. That's kind of where the Bronco and Jeeps fail as they are overpriced for what are pretty shoddily put together vehicles. Doesn't change the fact that I wanted one because the Bronco is pretty cool and carries a lot of nostalgia.
Does the peformance for the dollar argument for Vette and Pony cars not apply to the Wrangler? It is literally the exact same argument, the Wrangler provides the best bang for the buck offroad and rock crawl capability. Nothing comes close.
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      06-03-2022, 03:16 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
I'm not sure what any of that has to do with Jeep or Bronco reliability/build quality. You aren't very good at this are you?
Oh, I'm quite good actually.

I'd quote Deming, but most people lack the ability to understand.

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 08-06-2022 at 12:49 PM..
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      06-03-2022, 05:43 PM   #58
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I just had the torque converter and transmission changed on my 2017 Ford explorer, at 53K. Thank god I had the CPO warranty. Took them 3 weeks and in the 2nd week they called and told me Ford would not cover under warranty, then backtracked when I pointed out they had a Tech Bulletin for the exact same issue that blamed their welding.

Could you imagine having to cough up for all that on a 53k car?

Also have intermittent issues with Airbag lights that they want $250 to troubleshoot, even under warranty.

Don't think I'm doing a Ford again after this one.
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      06-03-2022, 10:02 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
What can be purchased new from Japanese and Germans, that can off-road out of the box to the level of a Rubicon Wrangler? The value is there for someone who offroads or does overlanding. I would not call the Rubicon Wrangler overpriced. Owners thrash the hell out of them rock crawling and they hold up quite well. They can go straight off the dealer lot to Moab and tackle some of highest rated trails. I would not call them "shoddily" built. Bronco longterm reliability offroad has yet to be seen, so far they are quite capable.
Toyota Land Cruiser
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Range Rover (BMW ICE)
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      06-03-2022, 10:50 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Bingham_M2C View Post
Toyota Land Cruiser
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The statement was made the Bronco and Wrangler are overpriced. Those definitely are all overpriced. Rubicon Wrangler w/ Xtreme Recon pack stands alone with its value and ability as an offroader. I want to see any of those three rock crawl some boulders straight off the lot. They are strictly mall crawlers now, no one wheels them anymore. Some guys are offroading the new Defender, but even it has it's limitations. Defender is a good overlanding or safari vehicle.

Last edited by M3WC; 06-03-2022 at 11:00 PM..
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      06-03-2022, 11:28 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
What can be purchased new from Japanese and Germans, that can off-road out of the box to the level of a Rubicon Wrangler? The value is there for someone who offroads or does overlanding. I would not call the Rubicon Wrangler overpriced. Owners thrash the hell out of them rock crawling and they hold up quite well. They can go straight off the dealer lot to Moab and tackle some of highest rated trails. I would not call them "shoddily" built. Bronco longterm reliability offroad has yet to be seen, so far they are quite capable.
A new $44k Toyota 4Runner TRD Off-Road outfitted with proper AT tires (come with crap all seasons) on the stock wheels can do 95%+ of what a Bronco or Rubicon can do all the while being one of the most reliable vehicles on the road which is what you want when you're a 100 miles deep into an overland trip.

Has no one brought up all the Bronco motor failures? The NHTSA is currently investigating due to the number of failures.
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      06-04-2022, 12:16 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
A new $44k Toyota 4Runner TRD Off-Road outfitted with proper AT tires (come with crap all seasons) on the stock wheels can do 95%+ of what a Bronco or Rubicon can do all the while being one of the most reliable vehicles on the road which is what you want when you're a 100 miles deep into an overland trip.
Meh, I wouldn't say 95%+. A Wrangler Rubicon Xtreme Recon is still much more capable. By far better approach, departure, breakover angles. More ground clearance. Swaybar disconnect and solid axles lead to superior suspension articulation. Wrangler and bronco also benefit from a front locking diff. The Bronco w/ sasquatch is better off road than the 4runner as well. Even a sub $40k Willys two-door is more capable.

Last edited by M3WC; 06-04-2022 at 12:44 AM..
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      06-04-2022, 03:52 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
A new $44k Toyota 4Runner TRD Off-Road outfitted with proper AT tires (come with crap all seasons) on the stock wheels can do 95%+ of what a Bronco or Rubicon can do all the while being one of the most reliable vehicles on the road which is what you want when you're a 100 miles deep into an overland trip.

Has no one brought up all the Bronco motor failures? The NHTSA is currently investigating due to the number of failures.
50?

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 06-04-2022 at 08:51 AM..
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      06-04-2022, 03:55 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Bingham_M2C View Post
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Please point to the one that has removable doors and roof...
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      06-04-2022, 08:15 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
The statement was made the Bronco and Wrangler are overpriced. Those definitely are all overpriced. Rubicon Wrangler w/ Xtreme Recon pack stands alone with its value and ability as an offroader. I want to see any of those three rock crawl some boulders straight off the lot. They are strictly mall crawlers now, no one wheels them anymore. Some guys are offroading the new Defender, but even it has it's limitations. Defender is a good overlanding or safari vehicle.
To supplement your last two posts...

Some of the respondents who speak to build quality and reliability and NVH in this thread seem to not understand the MSRP base price of the Base trim 2-Door is $30,000. So regardless of how far you go up the trim levels the vehicle was designed to a $30K price point, which means the paint and interior trim reflects that price level. The trim levels generally add off-road capability rather than luxury as you go up the scale. The Outer Banks trim goes into a relative luxury mall-crawler model, but the Big Bend, Black Diamond and Badlands all increase the off-road capability of the Base model. The Wild track just throws in most all of the kitchen sink (the two packages that can be added to the trim levels). Considering Ford offers the Base trim with the highest capable off-road package (Sasquatch) says a lot about their intent for the Bronco.

What also I think is missed is the Bronco is basically intended to be a dirt bike in automotive form. Either roof style is fully removeable and the doors are removable. The interior is expected to get dirty (dust, mud, moisture). In last 20 years or so, unless you've owned a Jeep CJ or Wrangler, there has been no vehicle offered in the USA with these attributes, which is a low-priced, modular, off-road capable SUV. For 14 years I owned a Base model YJ (the first Jeep Wrangler), which was a just modernized CJ to address the CJ's shortcomings related to its handling dynamics (rollovers). But it was still a sheet metal tin can with zero sound insulation, outdoor carpet, metal dashboard, and a flimsy cloth top with vinyl seats. It cost $12,500 in 1995, which is a $24K price point in 2022; I certainly didn't expect it to be a Range Rover.

The new Ford Bronco meets that ethos as a low cost off roader automotive dirt bike. My Bronco is just under $39K, which is about $20.5K in 1995 dollars; it's a shitload nicer than my 1995 YJ. Comparing a Base 1995 YJ to a Base 2021 Bronco, the 1995 price of the $30K Bronco would have been just $16,000. Considering the equipment level of each, I'm not sure what there is to complain about.
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; 08-04-2022 at 06:36 AM..
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      06-06-2022, 06:57 AM   #66
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