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      03-05-2019, 10:43 AM   #1
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Volkswagen AG's new RWD compact hatch

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/03/01/...vw-meb-geneva/



This car actually made its online debut last week (it's being presented live at the Geneva auto show this week), but it was easy to miss since a certain other automaker dominated the headlines on the same day.

Yes, this is an EV, and it is one of the first compact ones from a mainstream manufacturer built on a dedicated electric platform (BMW actually had them beat by years, but the i3 architecture is too costly to use as a solution for a cost-constrained small vehicle family). As such, it benefits from one of the lesser talked about benefits of the EV shift - the promise of cheap, compact RWD vehicles.

Unfortunately, being a Seat branded vehicle, this won't come to the US. In fact, even the upcoming VW-branded I.D. electric hatchback that rides on this same platform is not expected in the US. However, in time, enthusiast-geared small RWD EVs should become a reality, and certainly some of them will be sold in the states. I am excited about the possibilities.

There is some irony here in that BMW is moving to a FWD platform for their compact vehicle range, including the next generation 1 Series hatchback models, just as VW and others are moving to a dedicated EV platform featuring RWD.
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      03-05-2019, 10:52 AM   #2
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Oh no another EV
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      03-05-2019, 11:22 AM   #3
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      03-12-2019, 02:45 AM   #4
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VW? RWD? Has hell frozen over?
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      03-12-2019, 03:24 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
VW? RWD? Has hell frozen over?
No. It's a misprint
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      03-12-2019, 08:13 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
VW? RWD? Has hell frozen over?
Yeah, if only there were, oh, say 21,529,464 examples of rwd VW's floating around. If only.

Almost as funny as this now ironic ad:
[IMG]https://i0.wp.com/carsalesbase.com/w...heel-drive.png[/IMG]
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      03-12-2019, 08:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Yeah, if only there were, oh, say 21,529,464 examples of rwd VW's floating around. If only.

Almost as funny as this now ironic ad:
[IMG]https://i0.wp.com/carsalesbase.com/w...heel-drive.png[/IMG]
rear engine rwd that go pah-pah-pah, no go vroom
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      03-12-2019, 09:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
VW? RWD? Has hell frozen over?
Like I say, this is a trend that is going to pick up as more and more EV's arrive on dedicated electric platforms.

Rear wheel drive was originally favored for simplicity - you steer through one set of wheels and drive through the other. That way, the two systems are mechanically independent. However, because a combustion engine requires extensive cooling, generally it is easier and cheaper to mount it in the front of the vehicle, away from the drive wheels. Front wheel drive came about in an effort to improve packaging - putting everything up front was more space efficient and allowed smaller vehicles to have more interior room. An electric motor, however, does not have the same cooling requirements, so you can go back to driving the rear wheels and move the motor to the back so there is no need for a drive shaft running the length of the vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Yeah, if only there were, oh, say 21,529,464 examples of rwd VW's floating around. If only.
True, they built a lot of Beetles. But other than that hold-over from a bygone era, they switched to FWD in the 70s just like everybody else did for non-premium passenger vehicles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...kswagen+Beetle
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      03-12-2019, 09:20 AM   #9
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I realize that, as I currently drive one. I suppose the question is why was BMW so late to that party? It would be funny if VW reverted some models to rwd as BMW ramps up the fwd models.
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      03-12-2019, 09:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
I realize that, as I currently drive one.
I know . I just figured I'd clarify your response for anyone who didn't get the reference. Plus, I got to take a quick glance at some interesting VW history. As I looked at that Karmann Ghia, it occurred to me how cool it would be to convert one to an EV using the MEB chassis (or at least the motor/gearbox, suspension, and electronics).

Quote:
I suppose the question is why was BMW so late to that party?
Well, in a way they were early, right? The i3 was released years ago. But they blew it by going with an expensive CFRP based architecture that, while cool and futuristic, cannot be used as the basis for a family of lower-cost EVs.

Quote:
It would be funny if VW reverted some models to rwd as BMW ramps up the fwd models.
VW is keeping the current MQB-based Golf and Polo families of vehicles around for at least one more generation, but depending on how quickly their customers switch to EV's, some models may very well begin to disappear next decade in favor of their MEB equivalents.

It is anyone's guess when BMW might have a dedicated electric platform. They have made it clear that their current strategy is to build electric vehicles on their existing CLAR and FAAR (formerly UKL) platforms, even as their competitors have multiple dedicated battery electric platforms in the works. BMW is in a tough place as they are much smaller company than Daimler and VAG. Time will tell if their decision pays off.
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      03-12-2019, 10:29 AM   #11
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Market specific application of drive mode in an EV would be very cool. Can you retrofit the dual motor setup to a Tesla? Being able to have rwd down here in Texas, but if we moved to Chicago, it would be great to keep the same car but either add awd or convert it to fwd.
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      03-12-2019, 01:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post

Unfortunately, being a Seat branded vehicle, this won't come to the US. In fact, even the upcoming VW-branded I.D. electric hatchback that rides on this same platform is not expected in the US. However, in time, enthusiast-geared small RWD EVs should become a reality, and certainly some of them will be sold in the states. I am excited about the possibilities.

There is some irony here in that BMW is moving to a FWD platform for their compact vehicle range, including the next generation 1 Series hatchback models, just as VW and others are moving to a dedicated EV platform featuring RWD.


I was excited until I heard this. I use an i3 as a commuter and it really does it's job well, even with an M3 CS in the garage, I look forward to my commute in a RWD torquey electric car that saves me a lot of gas and gets me in the carpool lane. A RWD EV just makes more sense given the instant torque, I shudder to think what a FWD i3 would drive like–certainly it will leech away the last drops of what makes the car more fun to drive than an average FWD econobox.
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      03-12-2019, 01:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Well, in a way they were early, right? The i3 was released years ago. But they blew it by going with an expensive CFRP based architecture that, while cool and futuristic, cannot be used as the basis for a family of lower-cost EVs.
Yup, the i3 was ahead of it's time as a platform, but the battery is only now barely catching up, and is still behind. Unfortunately, it's polarizing styling is getting long in the tooth, had they released this car today with a 200 mile range and a more traditional, but still distinctive styling, even at $55k, I think it would do very well simply because of the badge. The CFRP architecture didn't just make the i3 too expensive, however, I think a lot was gained in developing it. I wouldn't be surprised if the next gen i8, if there is one, will truely be a supercar with this lightweight architecture. Who knows?
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      03-12-2019, 02:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Like I say, this is a trend that is going to pick up as more and more EV's arrive on dedicated electric platforms.

Rear wheel drive was originally favored for simplicity - you steer through one set of wheels and drive through the other. That way, the two systems are mechanically independent. However, because a combustion engine requires extensive cooling, generally it is easier and cheaper to mount it in the front of the vehicle, away from the drive wheels. Front wheel drive came about in an effort to improve packaging - putting everything up front was more space efficient and allowed smaller vehicles to have more interior room. An electric motor, however, does not have the same cooling requirements, so you can go back to driving the rear wheels and move the motor to the back so there is no need for a drive shaft running the length of the vehicle.



True, they built a lot of Beetles. But other than that hold-over from a bygone era, they switched to FWD in the 70s just like everybody else did for non-premium passenger vehicles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...kswagen+Beetle
Add to that FWD was also deemed and advertised as "safer" for the masses. Driver's abilities to safely handle a car haven't improved over the years.
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      03-12-2019, 02:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Market specific application of drive mode in an EV would be very cool. Can you retrofit the dual motor setup to a Tesla? Being able to have rwd down here in Texas, but if we moved to Chicago, it would be great to keep the same car but either add awd or convert it to fwd.
I'm sure you could convert it from RWD to AWD since everything is modular and they all use the same rear motors, but probably not FWD since they are not designed to operate optimally that way (although they can, as advertised, do so if the rear motor fails), and plus the front motor is a lot less powerful than the rear. Of course it would surely void the warranty, so probably not worth it in the end unless you had acquired an older used one on the cheap.

But as for the general possibility of offering different models of the same or similar vehicles with FWD or RWD or AWD due to the versatility of dedicated electric vehicle platforms - yes, that could be done. I'm not sure it will be common because I think that soon enough AWD will be the dominant EV configuration anyway, but the ability to switch from a front to a rear bias purely using software could come into play at some point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post


I was excited until I heard this. I use an i3 as a commuter and it really does it's job well, even with an M3 CS in the garage, I look forward to my commute in a RWD torquey electric car that saves me a lot of gas and gets me in the carpool lane. A RWD EV just makes more sense given the instant torque, I shudder to think what a FWD i3 would drive like–certainly it will leech away the last drops of what makes the car more fun to drive than an average FWD econobox.
Technically, it is still theoretically possible that some future FAAR-based BMW EVs could be RWD or rear-biased AWD even though it's a FWD platform whose ICE-powered products will always be FWD or front-biased AWD. However, we cannot necessarily count on this. For example, the first FAAR EV, the new MINI Cooper SE arriving later this year, will be FWD. And while that choice is likely due in no small part to the fact that MINI vehicles have always been FWD, it is likely BMW would reuse as much of that setup as possible. That still doesn't rule out them adding a rear motor and programming it to be rear-biased, but it remains to be seen if they choose to go that route.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Yup, the i3 was ahead of it's time as a platform, but the battery is only now barely catching up, and is still behind. Unfortunately, it's polarizing styling is getting long in the tooth, had they released this car today with a 200 mile range and a more traditional, but still distinctive styling, even at $55k, I think it would do very well simply because of the badge. The CFRP architecture didn't just make the i3 too expensive, however, I think a lot was gained in developing it. I wouldn't be surprised if the next gen i8, if there is one, will truely be a supercar with this lightweight architecture. Who knows?
They no doubt learned a lot, but it is unfortunate they now have this platform that, because of the plunging cost of EVs, probably will not live to see more widespread use. The i8 on the other hand, I agree could get a second act. But, that does little for the hope of small, affordable RWD BMW EVs any time soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilime75 View Post
Add to that FWD was also deemed and advertised as "safer" for the masses. Driver's abilities to safely handle a car haven't improved over the years.
True, but that was by and large a marketing effort used to sell the shift to FWD, which was primarily precipitated by the need for more efficient vehicles (more interior space in a smaller vehicle) due to the energy crisis in the 70s.

If not for regulatory forces, it is probable that automakers would have been happy to keep building cars the way they had (well, most of them had) up to that point.
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