02-08-2023, 11:27 PM | #1 |
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Speculation : future directions of the brand
I was having this convo at the meetup over the weekend and the CSL thread got me thinking about it again.
Starting points: - BMW is trending towards bigger and boxier SUV / crossover styles (XM, for example) though the 3 series is still king - Ford is spinning off (or looking to spin off) the Mustang brand as a separate entity - Chevy may follow with Corvette, and are making a "Corvette" SUV ala Urus - Porsche sort of led the charge with the Cayenne / Macan, but now everyone is doing it - at the same time, Chevy basically said they switched to a mid engine layout because they had squeezed everything they could out of the previous front engine, RWD layout performance-wise So. BMW. IF the trend continues towards SUVs, and IF BMW decides they've gotten everything they can out of the layout / platform after the M4 CS / CSL / M3 CS etc....might they decide to switch to a mid engine layout? Something like a larger i8, with a hybrid straight 6 twin turbo, and xDrive. Discuss.
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02-09-2023, 12:11 AM | #2 |
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I dont think BMW has squeezed all they can out of the current M3/M4 platform, at least not to the point of switching up to a mid-engine type of platform instead of doing electric. Their next move will either be some type of mild hybrid setup or go full send on electric and have an official M3/4 EV.
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02-09-2023, 12:23 AM | #3 | |
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One reason out of many that I purchased the G80 M3 was because I believe it will be the last gas powered M3/M4.
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02-09-2023, 12:31 AM | #4 |
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I went with the '23 G82 as the last gas one before ID8. I plan on keeping this one to 100k+ miles, but who knows.
If they came out with a mid-engine layout supercar style M4...I'd be sorely tempted to switch instead of keeping my current M4.
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02-09-2023, 07:27 AM | #5 | |
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But i made this point in the other thread, BMW is not making mid-engined supercars. M3 CS/M4 CSL/M5 CS and next coming M2s are the BMW swan songs for ICE. New M5 will be special, but hybrid. Everything else going Neue Klasse EV. |
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02-09-2023, 07:50 AM | #6 |
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Dont forget all these vendors will make the decsion based on percevied market. When looking at the current EV market the growth potential is so large it cant be quantified. However, within the last 12-18 months, and this is purely my observations, we have started to see the limits of the support infrastructure both energy delivery at charging stations, and with building them as well. Examples would be limits on precious metals in quantity, geopolotical issues where these mines are located, and now we are starting to see images and videos of people working these mines. The underlying infrastrucure is not as robust as the EV proponoents think it is.
My point being is that the industry as a whole is full throttle into the EV space because of a perceived market that is slowly waking up the the fact that having a 100% EV future is unsustainable. I think this will cause all the vendors to re-evaulate thier future plans. True ICE engines might might not be dead. Just my opinion. |
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02-09-2023, 07:54 AM | #7 | |
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I think the last ICE M3 will be built in 2027...afterwards probably a next gen electric M3. Makes sense. |
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02-09-2023, 08:07 AM | #8 | |
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02-09-2023, 08:26 AM | #9 |
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The biggest impact will be the future interest of the auto enthusiasts.
The future enthusiast may have a completely different set of interests. Can it make a cup of coffee. Can I sleep and get to a destination? . Someone at work asked me why I purchased an M3 over EV specifically regarding the day to day performance aspects. 1) Looks Awesome 2) Drives Amazing |
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02-09-2023, 09:11 AM | #10 |
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I never thought people would be driving automatic M3's and here we are. If they go full electric, everyone will love them and say how bad gas powered M3's were for the environment whilst sipping their soy lattes.
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02-09-2023, 09:33 AM | #11 |
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What they should have done is not 'sell' the z4 coupe idea to toyota and made it their own. the new M coupe. S58, ceramics, Cup 2, cf hood / trunk / roof.~ 3300 pounds. manual.
turning a sedan chassis that has 4 adults in mind... and trying to make a 2 seater sports car like the CSL is a tough sell.
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02-09-2023, 10:06 AM | #12 | |
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Next time you're out driving, take note of how many vehicles with a model year of 2020 or newer that you see on the roads that are sedans or coupes. It won't be many. Hybrid and full EV SUVs and CUVs is where every manufacturer is headed. And we love our trucks in the USA too. BMW will be no different (minus the trucks). |
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02-09-2023, 10:10 AM | #13 | |
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Automatics: Quicker, less engaging Manuals: Slower, more engaging EV: Quicker, less engaging ICE: Slower, more engaging
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02-09-2023, 10:15 AM | #14 |
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It's clear the increased dilution of the M brand continues (M Sport, M Performance, M logos everywhere, M340, X5 M60, XM, i4M50 etc etc) and the once clear line between a car with an M Sport package and the genuine product from BMW M GmbH seems to be getting more and more blurry.
We may know the difference but I think the % of people who do not is increasing. This development could lead to a decreased brand value with less interest in the genuine M cars. One way to solve that could be to push the M range in a more distinct or extreme direction. I believe the controversial grill could be a trial step in this direction, a way to further distance the car from the standard range. Or perhaps this is the direction it's always been moving with each new generation of M car having more unique exterior features?
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02-09-2023, 10:50 AM | #15 | |
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Then you have the SUV naming conventions with the M after. I get it because you wouldn't want to see or say "MX5" with Mazda names. But just adds to the confusion for the average consumer. X5 sDrive40i/xDrive40i X5 xDrive45e X5 M50i X5 M
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02-09-2023, 12:34 PM | #16 | |
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Imagine a future (10 years or so from now) where the coupes are styled more like an i8 (so like, an M2 / M4 coupe that are like the i8, in line with a Corvette / Z06, and then an M6 that's even more extreme ala Corvette e-ray or Zora), but the SUVs are more like the XM / X4 / X6 for sporty ones and maybe an X8 to replace the X7 - make the X8 the size of a Tahoe, instead of Durango.
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