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      09-27-2022, 07:50 AM   #199
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So, approx 300,000 people are being evacuated from the Tampa, FL area ahead of Ian. Just imagine the lines, if they were recharging (or 10% or 1% of them were recharging) on their way to safety or back home.

If it takes ~50 minutes to recharge to 150mi, then they are spending ~25% of their travel time refueling. If we can agree it takes ~5 minutes to refuel gasoline, then with today's technology you will need probably 4-5x as many charging stations as we have fuel pumps to have the same bandwidth / throughput of charging customers on the road - and that is assuming that a significant number of people have home chargers..

50 minutes is no big deal overnight in your garage, but do you begin to see the issues of scale here, especially at times of a regional crisis??
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      09-27-2022, 08:22 AM   #200
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Don't worry they bust out the diesel tow trucks with the diesel generator as a mobile solution for all the dead EVs stuck on the highway
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      09-27-2022, 02:32 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarsAndGuitars View Post
So, approx 300,000 people are being evacuated from the Tampa, FL area ahead of Ian. Just imagine the lines, if they were recharging (or 10% or 1% of them were recharging) on their way to safety or back home.

If it takes ~50 minutes to recharge to 150mi, then they are spending ~25% of their travel time refueling. If we can agree it takes ~5 minutes to refuel gasoline, then with today's technology you will need probably 4-5x as many charging stations as we have fuel pumps to have the same bandwidth / throughput of charging customers on the road - and that is assuming that a significant number of people have home chargers..

50 minutes is no big deal overnight in your garage, but do you begin to see the issues of scale here, especially at times of a regional crisis??

Stop talking that non-sense. You can't make reasonable circumstances like this.

I love it. All arguments are made at the best case scenario instead of worst case. Completely logical way to do things.
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      09-27-2022, 02:44 PM   #202
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Stop talking that non-sense. You can't make reasonable circumstances like this.

I love it. All arguments are made at the best case scenario instead of worst case. Completely logical way to do things.
what are you trying to say??
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      09-28-2022, 12:59 PM   #203
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what are you trying to say??
What I'm saying is most arguments about EV are based on best case scenarios. Where other circumstances are not taken into consideration.

You brought up a great point and I was just highlighting that fact.
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      09-29-2022, 03:09 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by CarsAndGuitars View Post
So, approx 300,000 people are being evacuated from the Tampa, FL area ahead of Ian. Just imagine the lines, if they were recharging (or 10% or 1% of them were recharging) on their way to safety or back home.
Hurricane prep.


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      09-30-2022, 11:26 AM   #205
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Hurricane prep.


438.1 kWh of real portable fuel. Lol.

Oh, the humanity!!!

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      09-30-2022, 06:13 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by dizz81 View Post
What I'm saying is most arguments about EV are based on best case scenarios. Where other circumstances are not taken into consideration.

You brought up a great point and I was just highlighting that fact.
ok thanks for clarifying, I wasnt sure if you were pro or against
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      09-30-2022, 06:26 PM   #207
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Hurricane prep.


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      10-01-2022, 04:56 AM   #208
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Hehe i mean it's cool to make jokes about EV's. They're not for everyone.

Until more and more of these things happening as the years go by, until ICE goes bye bye LOL

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/new...hicles/633041/

Chit is getting serious now mangs!!
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      10-01-2022, 08:44 AM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP View Post
Hehe i mean it's cool to make jokes about EV's. They're not for everyone.

Until more and more of these things happening as the years go by, until ICE goes bye bye LOL

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/new...hicles/633041/

Chit is getting serious now mangs!!
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      10-01-2022, 09:05 AM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP View Post
Hehe i mean it's cool to make jokes about EV's. They're not for everyone.

Until more and more of these things happening as the years go by, until ICE goes bye bye LOL

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/new...hicles/633041/

Chit is getting serious now mangs!!
Oh I dunno, I LOVE EV's, especially model 3 drivers! Just to the other day an arrogant model 3 driver tried to pass me on the freeway on-ramp. The look on his face in the rearview mirror when he couldn't pass my 10 year old 182k mile X5 was priceless! Although to be honest the fowl look could have been from the smoke, it runs a bit rich at full throttle. Gotta work on that.

That's the thing about EV's, unless you have a special deal with Daddy Musk, I know EXACTLY how fast you are, and you can do NOTHING (short of rip your seats out and take off your doors lol) to make your car faster, but you never know how fast a ICE car is, the mod possibilities are ENDLESS. And no, speed mods are never going be accepted on EV's by big brother. In fact, the days of 1000+ hp EV's will be short lived. I give it 5 years before mandatory geo-fenced Horsepower laws are enacted and soon after EV horsepower limits on all new cars/trucks. The only question is how many people have to die before it is done.

Don't get me wrong, I see EV's as inevitable over a long enough period of time, it is only logical. What is not logical is the ham-fisted draconian hard-stop enforcement instead of allowing the markets, manufacturing, jobs, and infrastructure to naturally adapt. It's almost like it's being fueled by narcissistic misanthropic asshat leaders being emotionally manipulated....but I digress...

I am probably wrong and it will be fine, if there is one thing in this world we can trust, is that our leaders have carefully thought this through and did no act out of irrational emotion when selecting the 2035 date. It clearly gives us enough time to make the massive infrastructure changes needed to facilitate this goal without quadrupling energy prices along the way. I mean it's 13 years away, plenty of time right? It's not like this would trigger every auto manufacturer to trip over themselves to completely phase out ICE in the next 5...oh wait.

BuTyOuCanChaRgEatNiGhT!!!!....how's that work in the summer in states like AZ again? Let's see you not run your AC at night in June in Phoenix. What happens when there is incoming national disaster or holiday and everyone is rushing to fully charge? The fact is the grid is not ready for this and it's going to take much longer then the magical hard stop 2035 to get it sorted without drastic energy cost increases. But hey, what do I know and perhaps 2500 dollar monthly electric bills for the average house and EV are no big thing? Gov can just subsidize it, printing monies has no ill effects as the past year has clearly shown right?

*This spot reserved for future "told ya so" when the rolling blackouts start hitting and target date is pushed back*

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      10-01-2022, 10:50 AM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck View Post
Oh I dunno, I LOVE EV's, especially model 3 drivers! Just to the other day an arrogant model 3 driver tried to pass me on the freeway on-ramp. The look on his face in the rearview mirror when he couldn't pass my 10 year old 182k mile X5 was priceless! Although to be honest the fowl look could have been from the smoke, it runs a bit rich at full throttle. Gotta work on that.

That's the thing about EV's, unless you have a special deal with Daddy Musk, I know EXACTLY how fast you are, and you can do NOTHING (short of rip your seats out and take off your doors lol) to make your car faster, but you never know how fast a ICE car is, the mod possibilities are ENDLESS. And no, speed mods are never going be accepted on EV's by big brother. In fact, the days of 1000+ hp EV's will be short lived. I give it 5 years before mandatory geo-fenced Horsepower laws are enacted and soon after EV horsepower limits on all new cars/trucks. The only question is how many people have to die before it is done.

Don't get me wrong, I see EV's as inevitable over a long enough period of time, it is only logical. What is not logical is the ham-fisted draconian hard-stop enforcement instead of allowing the markets, manufacturing, jobs, and infrastructure to naturally adapt. It's almost like it's being fueled by narcissistic misanthropic asshat leaders being emotionally manipulated....but I digress...

I am probably wrong and it will be fine, if there is one thing in this world we can trust, is that our leaders have carefully thought this through and did no act out of irrational emotion when selecting the 2035 date. It clearly gives us enough time to make the massive infrastructure changes needed to facilitate this goal without quadrupling energy prices along the way. I mean it's 13 years away, plenty of time right? It's not like this would trigger every auto manufacturer to trip over themselves to completely phase out ICE in the next 5...oh wait.

BuTyOuCanChaRgEatNiGhT!!!!....how's that work in the summer in states like AZ again? Let's see you not run your AC at night in June in Phoenix. What happens when there is incoming national disaster or holiday and everyone is rushing to fully charge? The fact is the grid is not ready for this and it's going to take much longer then the magical hard stop 2035 to get it sorted without drastic energy cost increases. But hey, what do I know and perhaps 2500 dollar monthly electric bills for the average house and EV are no big thing? Gov can just subsidize it, printing monies has no ill effects as the past year has clearly shown right?

*This spot reserved for future "told ya so" when the rolling blackouts start hitting and target date is pushed back*
That's odd. My model 3 LR has terrible top end (we all know this about tesla's aside from PxxD models and the plaid) and i have beaten a lot of cars off a roll (when idiots won't let me merge) and i am undefeated from a stop. It's not so much people have a hate for tesla around me. In fact a lot of people love it. And the tesla community, which i'm not apart of to be honest, really show the camaraderie on the road. Always giving each other the right of way, the wave, the thumbs up. I'm sure it's different from state to state but around me, they're actually really cool. And i find this behavior to be totally opposite with BMW drivers. I always encounter dickhead BMW drivers whenever i'm the M3.

With charging, yeah people do charge at night. Why wouldn't you? If you don't have access to charging, then don't get an EV. It works for basically everyone who gets one.

I don't even have level 2 charging at home. My GF does and whenever i go to her place, i plug it in and by the time i leave, or we leave, the car is fully charged up. There's also a SC station 5 miles from my house. So i'm fine in that regard and everyone who lives within the vicinity is fine as well. There's actually a lot of SC stations by me. With new ones being built right by my house which is perfect.

So i mean i get it people want to diss EV's because of "no soul", "no charging", and/or "slow charging". But this process has just begun and look at how far EV's have came in the past 10 years. With tesla paving the way.

You can claim victory for ICE but i wouldn't because that seesaw is going the other way FAST lol.
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      10-01-2022, 12:03 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by CarsAndGuitars View Post
If we can agree it takes ~5 minutes to refuel gasoline
Well, if the pumps are working...if not, it'll take a lot longer.
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      10-01-2022, 12:34 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP View Post

With charging, yeah people do charge at night. Why wouldn't you?
besides infrastructure and resource constraints, because it's environmentally irresponsible, and unequivocally the least clean.

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      10-01-2022, 12:46 PM   #214
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To risk having a message like that come up saying you need to pay 26k bucks to continue driving, well.. and I'm seing more teslas and prius's on breakdown trucks lately.
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      10-01-2022, 12:50 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP View Post
Hehe i mean it's cool to make jokes about EV's. They're not for everyone.

Until more and more of these things happening as the years go by, until ICE goes bye bye LOL

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/new...hicles/633041/

Chit is getting serious now mangs!!
Then you have Toyota.

Quote:
While many of its competitors have made commitments to transition their line-ups solely to electric vehicles over the coming decade, Toyota chief executive Akio Toyoda remains steadfast in his belief that the smarter option is to offer consumers a host of powertrain options that includes EVs but also hydrogen-powered vehicles, ICE models, and hybrids, Bloomberg reports.

Speaking with dealers at a recent event in Las Vegas, Toyoda said the uptake of battery-electric vehicles is “going to take longer than the media would like us to believe,” adding that it remains the carmaker’s strategy to offer the “widest possible” array of powertrains.

“That’s our strategy and we’re sticking to it,” he said.
My hunch is Akio is making the correct call. Elite media is not going to pressure him into a transition too early.
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      10-01-2022, 01:15 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
Well, if the pumps are working...if not, it'll take a lot longer.
Well, we could just back-feed BGM-M3COMP's Model 3 into the gas station's breaker panel...
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      10-01-2022, 02:18 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
Then you have Toyota.



My hunch is Akio is making the correct call. Elite media is not going to pressure him into a transition too early.

And porsche wants to save ICE with synthetic fuels as well.

That doesn't change mandates and the states that will obey these laws.

Will things change when the next person goes in office? Perhaps but i doubt it.

Things are shifting to this inevitability whether we all agree or not. No one has said you have to shut up and like it.

But what they are telling you is that you have to shut up and ACCEPT it.
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      10-01-2022, 04:44 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP View Post
And porsche wants to save ICE with synthetic fuels as well.

That doesn't change mandates and the states that will obey these laws.

Will things change when the next person goes in office? Perhaps but i doubt it.

Things are shifting to this inevitability whether we all agree or not. No one has said you have to shut up and like it.

But what they are telling you is that you have to shut up and ACCEPT it.
WASHINGTON, DC – The Obama Administration today finalized groundbreaking standards that will increase fuel economy to the equivalent of 54.5 mpg for cars and light-duty trucks by Model Year 2025.
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...iency-standard

^ and then it got overruled by people that wouldn't accept it.
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      10-01-2022, 04:57 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck View Post
Oh I dunno, I LOVE EV's, especially model 3 drivers! Just to the other day an arrogant model 3 driver tried to pass me on the freeway on-ramp. The look on his face in the rearview mirror when he couldn't pass my 10 year old 182k mile X5 was priceless! Although to be honest the fowl look could have been from the smoke, it runs a bit rich at full throttle. Gotta work on that.

That's the thing about EV's, unless you have a special deal with Daddy Musk, I know EXACTLY how fast you are, and you can do NOTHING (short of rip your seats out and take off your doors lol) to make your car faster, but you never know how fast a ICE car is, the mod possibilities are ENDLESS. And no, speed mods are never going be accepted on EV's by big brother. In fact, the days of 1000+ hp EV's will be short lived. I give it 5 years before mandatory geo-fenced Horsepower laws are enacted and soon after EV horsepower limits on all new cars/trucks. The only question is how many people have to die before it is done.

Don't get me wrong, I see EV's as inevitable over a long enough period of time, it is only logical. What is not logical is the ham-fisted draconian hard-stop enforcement instead of allowing the markets, manufacturing, jobs, and infrastructure to naturally adapt. It's almost like it's being fueled by narcissistic misanthropic asshat leaders being emotionally manipulated....but I digress...

I am probably wrong and it will be fine, if there is one thing in this world we can trust, is that our leaders have carefully thought this through and did no act out of irrational emotion when selecting the 2035 date. It clearly gives us enough time to make the massive infrastructure changes needed to facilitate this goal without quadrupling energy prices along the way. I mean it's 13 years away, plenty of time right? It's not like this would trigger every auto manufacturer to trip over themselves to completely phase out ICE in the next 5...oh wait.

BuTyOuCanChaRgEatNiGhT!!!!....how's that work in the summer in states like AZ again? Let's see you not run your AC at night in June in Phoenix. What happens when there is incoming national disaster or holiday and everyone is rushing to fully charge? The fact is the grid is not ready for this and it's going to take much longer then the magical hard stop 2035 to get it sorted without drastic energy cost increases. But hey, what do I know and perhaps 2500 dollar monthly electric bills for the average house and EV are no big thing? Gov can just subsidize it, printing monies has no ill effects as the past year has clearly shown right?

*This spot reserved for future "told ya so" when the rolling blackouts start hitting and target date is pushed back*
To expand on your geofence comment, think bigger than just having it for horsepower limitations. Think about how the gubment can enforce the concept of driving credits and when you can and cannot charge based on load capacity or "national emergencies." Want to drive on this stretch of road during this time of day with this amount of traffic, well, that's going to be x credits. If you've been driving a lot and have used up a lot of your driving credits, better figure out another way to get to your destination.
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      10-01-2022, 07:13 PM   #220
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Well, if the pumps are working...if not, it'll take a lot longer.
Wth are you talking about?
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