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      08-26-2022, 07:49 AM   #89
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This from a dealership in Florida for a Chevy Volt battery replacement. I suppose if you live in an urban area EV's might make sense to you, but many live out of the city, put lots more miles on their vehicles so the range issue is real, and when I see a repair bill like this it doesn't give me confidence. I'm sure there will be off market replacements at some point which will likely be cheaper. However, 60% of the new vehicle cost for a batter replacement, what does that do to resale value and given that the majority of people don't buy new because of the expense who will want to buy used with this kind of bill in their future?
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      08-26-2022, 07:58 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Murf the Surf View Post
This from a dealership in Florida for a Chevy Volt battery replacement. I suppose if you live in an urban area EV's might make sense to you, but many live out of the city, put lots more miles on their vehicles so the range issue is real, and when I see a repair bill like this it doesn't give me confidence. I'm sure there will be off market replacements at some point which will likely be cheaper. However, 60% of the new vehicle cost for a batter replacement, what does that do to resale value and given that the majority of people don't buy new because of the expense who will want to buy used with this kind of bill in their future?
(sarcasm But...you save so much on all those sparkplugs and oil changes./sarcasm)
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      08-26-2022, 08:01 AM   #91
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Let's ask Maynard...

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      08-26-2022, 08:12 AM   #92
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Really? How's the energy situation in Europe going right now?

Meanwhile India/China will continue powering up with coal and fossil fuels which actually work and negate any global "benefit" from going with electric vehicles here. As always, the lower income people will get screwed the hardest. 1 in 6 US households are already behind on their energy bills.

People in this country better wake the f' up fast, realize green is the new red, and stop voting in the clowns who promote this shit.

This will do nothing to lower our energy costs either, a planned/controlled demolition where you'll own nothing and be happy. F' Klaus and anyone associated with the WEF.
It's same here the c*nts sitting in their ivory towers take no heed of the real experts who say there is no climate emergency at all just something made up by greenie 'analysts'.
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      08-26-2022, 10:19 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Really? How's the energy situation in Europe going right now?

Meanwhile India/China will continue powering up with coal and fossil fuels which actually work and negate any global "benefit" from going with electric vehicles here. As always, the lower income people will get screwed the hardest. 1 in 6 US households are already behind on their energy bills.

People in this country better wake the f' up fast, realize green is the new red, and stop voting in the clowns who promote this shit.

This will do nothing to lower our energy costs either, a planned/controlled demolition where you'll own nothing and be happy. F' Klaus and anyone associated with the WEF.
It's same here the c*nts sitting in their ivory towers take no heed of the real experts who say there is no climate emergency at all just something made up by greenie 'analysts'.
There are no informed climate experts that fail to recognize the very serious threat that climate change poses. We will, in the not too distant future, have doubled the concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. These are gases whose warming properties are very well known and measures. Of course that's going to warm the planet and, again, we've known that for more than a century.
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      08-26-2022, 11:09 AM   #94
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There are no informed climate experts that fail to recognize the very serious threat that climate change poses. We will, in the not too distant future, have doubled the concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. These are gases whose warming properties are very well known and measures. Of course that's going to warm the planet and, again, we've known that for more than a century.
Gosh, I remember roughly 30 years ago or so that the "experts" were saying the emissions from cars, factories, etc were creating a layer of gasses around the Earth that would block the sun's rays and create a new Ice Age. Funny that now its the complete opposite....
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      08-26-2022, 11:24 AM   #95
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It is neither monumental or colossal. A modest charging station takes about 45 days from inception, to design, to permit, to installation. And it can get down to 20 days. It is no harder than a new aircon, carport or loo in your house. A no-brainer. A greater concern is retraining all techs and indies to work on ERS and KERS.
Tell that to the reviewers of their Rivian that charging stations are neither monumental or colossal.

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      08-26-2022, 11:29 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by H2O_Doc View Post
There are no informed climate experts that fail to recognize the very serious threat that climate change poses. We will, in the not too distant future, have doubled the concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. These are gases whose warming properties are very well known and measures. Of course that's going to warm the planet and, again, we've known that for more than a century.
Gosh, I remember roughly 30 years ago or so that the "experts" were saying the emissions from cars, factories, etc were creating a layer of gasses around the Earth that would block the sun's rays and create a new Ice Age. Funny that now its the complete opposite....
There was NEVER anything close to a consensus opinion that aerosols would offset warming and induce an ice age. Never. There were pop-science articles that talked about global cooling from aerosols, but all through that period the recognition that climate warming was real and a threat.

Now, what we did find out is that in some regions, those aerosols did actually reduce and mask some of the warming, but beyond that, the global cooling talk was media hyperbole designed to sell advertising.
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      08-26-2022, 11:48 AM   #97
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not at all....they will all have preprogrammed flight paths and collision avoidance systems and think about how much more room there is in the open sky compared to jamming everyone on a single path like a road does..

These are just in their infancy right now, but they will be the future....
Hmm....and current air travel still has accidents with highly regulated air space.
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      08-26-2022, 12:12 PM   #98
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Hmm....and current air travel still has accidents with highly regulated air space.


of course, but it is still safer than travel by car.....

In absolute numbers, driving is more dangerous, with more than 5 million accidents compared to 20 accidents in flying. A more direct comparison per 100 million miles pits driving's 1.27 fatalities and 80 injuries against flying's lack of deaths and almost no injuries, which again shows air travel to be safer.
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      08-26-2022, 12:32 PM   #99
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Tell that to the reviewers of their Rivian that charging stations are neither monumental or colossal.

This is my exact point, there's SO MANY things to get sorted.
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      08-26-2022, 01:29 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX View Post
of course, but it is still safer than travel by car.....

In absolute numbers, driving is more dangerous, with more than 5 million accidents compared to 20 accidents in flying. A more direct comparison per 100 million miles pits driving's 1.27 fatalities and 80 injuries against flying's lack of deaths and almost no injuries, which again shows air travel to be safer.
I was commenting on your assertion that it'll be just a OK with autonomous flying going from point A to point B. With current air travel, you have pilots that have to pass way more rigorous training and testing than the joke of a licensing system to get a driver's license. You have highly regulated air space and yet there are still issues.

Now move even the fraction of travel on the road to the skies. When you have an issue, it's not just in the X and Y planes...horizontal. You have the Z plane...vertical. Now you have gravity at work and hoping the incident doesn't happen above some housing complex. Then you have the issues with total autonomous technology. I put up a link where a group of autonomous vehicles that are in the fleet for a taxi operator all had a major fail. A mass of them just stopped at an intersection blocking traffic for hours until employees of said company had to go down and move them manually. So you'd have to have some sort of manual intervention. Do you think the licensing requirements are going to be maintained for the general public to operate such airborne vehicles? I certainly doubt it. I watched some fool of a driver trying to back into a parking spot at Sam's Club. She had a huge amount of space yet came within inches of hitting the car next to her. And even after I had parked my car and walked into Sam's from a space some distance from her, she still couldn't get the car straight in her spot.
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      08-26-2022, 02:16 PM   #101
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I am politically agnostic and pro vaccine, I am a pragmatist. Charging is a monumental issue, it cannot be done in 13 yrs, it is impossible.
I agree, but I think with the way the world works, you have to set aggressive deadlines.

I see this on a daily basis. If you set a relaxed deadline, the work and pace expands to fill the time. It's better to be aggressive and move it when you miss, but you only have a few shots. You can't move it like 5 times or everyone just ignores the deadline.

This will get pushed back once or twice I think.
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      08-26-2022, 02:25 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I agree, but I think with the way the world works, you have to set aggressive deadlines.

I see this on a daily basis. If you set a relaxed deadline, the work and pace expands to fill the time. It's better to be aggressive and move it when you miss, but you only have a few shots. You can't move it like 5 times or everyone just ignores the deadline.

This will get pushed back once or twice I think.
+1 to this.

Not to mention it's a super common strategy these days to make some aggressive deadline you're not sure you can keep just to spur people into thinking about the issue.

To affect change, you need someone to be the first to act like it's possible. This, imo, is that.
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      08-26-2022, 03:57 PM   #103
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15 years ago we had a 507hp V10 in a family sedan.
In 15 years, V10 will cease to exist on the road. Crazy.

I can't wait for legislation to arrive that will gradually ban the registration of old, gas powered automobiles (like in 2042, my "classic" 440i will have to be crushed). THAT'S when you'll see people bail hard on this state.
I'll hopefully be long-gone by then.
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      08-26-2022, 04:05 PM   #104
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15 years ago we had a 507hp V10 in a family sedan.
In 15 years, V10 will cease to exist on the road. Crazy.

I can't wait for legislation to arrive that will gradually ban the registration of old, gas powered automobiles (like in 2042, my "classic" 440i will have to be crushed). THAT'S when you'll see people bail hard on this state.
I'll hopefully be long-gone by then.
The small percentage of people that care about old cars will not cause some mass exodus.

I'm not convinced it will happen anyway, but a 440i is the hill you're gonna die on?
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      08-26-2022, 04:56 PM   #105
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I don't care what any of you say... No amount of legislation will ever get me to stop riding my horse and buggy!

Oil?! From the earth?!?! At "Gas Stations" as plentiful as every horse stable in town?!?!?! Ludicrous!!!

And what happens if my motor breaks? Years of veterinary knowledge tending to my beloved steed now useless?

I for one my friends will not be duped. Not again. Before we know it we have "See-Ya Horsey!" laws and our glue factory owning politicians will fill their pockets and what will we have?!?!

Nothing... Nothing but efficient, life-changing transportation.

BUT AT WHAT COST?!?!?!

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      08-26-2022, 05:41 PM   #106
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For those posting in this thread that claim EV charging and infrastructure "will not happen by 2035"....your uneducated posture on "it will never happen" is not relevant in Seattle....
https://www.seattle.gov/city-light/i...rbside_opt_in-
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      08-26-2022, 06:32 PM   #107
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The small percentage of people that care about old cars will not cause some mass exodus.

I'm not convinced it will happen anyway, but a 440i is the hill you're gonna die on?
I don't think you understand how stupid & corrupt the politicians are here in California...

My 440i is an example. What about Juan, who can barely afford to put food on the table, let alone replace his nine year old, broken down Nissan Maxima with even the cheapest electric alternative? He'll pack his family's bags and move to *literal* greener pastures.
Regardless, there are & will be even bigger issues causing an exodus from California.
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      08-26-2022, 06:58 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrandt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I agree, but I think with the way the world works, you have to set aggressive deadlines.

I see this on a daily basis. If you set a relaxed deadline, the work and pace expands to fill the time. It's better to be aggressive and move it when you miss, but you only have a few shots. You can't move it like 5 times or everyone just ignores the deadline.

This will get pushed back once or twice I think.
+1 to this.

Not to mention it's a super common strategy these days to make some aggressive deadline you're not sure you can keep just to spur people into thinking about the issue.

To affect change, you need someone to be the first to act like it's possible. This, imo, is that.
The problem is having such aggressive timelines has consequences much worse than simply not meeting the goal. No one seems to consider that when they say "well, at least we're trying!!!"
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      08-26-2022, 07:49 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by 440i6MT View Post
I don't think you understand how stupid & corrupt the politicians are here in California...

My 440i is an example. What about Juan, who can barely afford to put food on the table, let alone replace his nine year old, broken down Nissan Maxima with even the cheapest electric alternative? He'll pack his family's bags and move to *literal* greener pastures.
Regardless, there are & will be even bigger issues causing an exodus from California.
Juan will buy a used car, just like he did the last time. Might even be some beater Teslas by 2035.
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      08-26-2022, 08:06 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by MunkyTool View Post
I don't care what any of you say... No amount of legislation will ever get me to stop riding my horse and buggy!

Oil?! From the earth?!?! At "Gas Stations" as plentiful as every horse stable in town?!?!?! Ludicrous!!!

And what happens if my motor breaks? Years of veterinary knowledge tending to my beloved steed now useless?

I for one my friends will not be duped. Not again. Before we know it we have "See-Ya Horsey!" laws and our glue factory owning politicians will fill their pockets and what will we have?!?!

Nothing... Nothing but efficient, life-changing transportation.

BUT AT WHAT COST?!?!?!
That’s funny “he he” but pretty much ends there…

Comparing a horse to a car, can you travel to another state in a few hours in a horse?

Other travel longer distances slower, how is an electric car a revolution of any sort, especially in states/provinces where power comes from coal?
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