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      03-26-2019, 05:27 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by FCBayernFTW View Post
As opposed to the hideous i3 which is, today, the only affordable electric car BMW makes?

I hope bmw just makes "normal" looking vehicles already in their lineup with electric powertrains. This futuristic look they are applying to them right now is just ugly.
Yes, the i3 is horrible as well. I agree with you.
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      03-26-2019, 05:57 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN. View Post
Tesla Model 3P: 0-60= 3.2 Sec...

BMW is looking very stupid right now.

Tesla is absolutely changing the market.

It's a great car, so don't knock it until you try it.

Let's see BMW offer continuous improvements via, over-the-air-updates, like Tesla does.
BMW looks stupid because their first i4 has a 0-60 time of 4.0s? Do we even know if this is a performance model or if they plan on making an i4M in the near future? Also Tesla advertised 3.5s. Shouldn't we wait to see what the i4 gets in the hands of reviewers since we know BMW tends to rate their cars fairly conservatively?

It's almost a certainty that BMW quality will be significantly better than any Tesla ever made. So even if the i4 can't match the 0-60 time of the Model 3, it'll still have a significant advantage over the Model 3. Also, there's a good chance the overall driving dynamics of the i4 will be superior. Though the Model 3 is no slouch. Both are good. Neither looks stupid (except when they rush production and try to deliver cars with wrong interior panels or protruding body panels.)
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      03-26-2019, 06:09 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
BMW looks stupid because their first i4 has a 0-60 time of 4.0s? Do we even know if this is a performance model or if they plan on making an i4M in the near future? Also Tesla advertised 3.5s. Shouldn't we wait to see what the i4 gets in the hands of reviewers since we know BMW tends to rate their cars fairly conservatively?

It's almost a certainty that BMW quality will be significantly better than any Tesla ever made. So even if the i4 can't match the 0-60 time of the Model 3, it'll still have a significant advantage over the Model 3. Also, there's a good chance the overall driving dynamics of the i4 will be superior. Though the Model 3 is no slouch. Both are good. Neither looks stupid (except when they rush production and try to deliver cars with wrong interior panels or protruding body panels.)
BMW quality is a given.

Model 3 hits 0-60 in 3.1 seconds.

And actually does 3.2 over and over again.

Tesla's slowest Model 3 hits 60 in high 4 seconds.

BMW / BMW M better pull more than a rabbit out of their hat.
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      03-26-2019, 06:28 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN. View Post
BMW quality is a given.

Model 3 hits 0-60 in 3.1 seconds.

And does it does 3.2 over and over again.

Tesla's slowest car hits 60 in high 4 second times.

BMW / BMW M better pull more than a rabbit out of their hat.
BMW is also conservative when it comes to 0-60 times. You can't use the absolute fastest time ever tested on Tesla's absolute top trim Model 3 and compare that to BMW's claimed pre-production 0-62 time. The official 0-60 time thus probably be 3.8-3.9 and I bet when reviewers test, it'll get closer to 3.5. Not as big of a difference, then. All for a fairly useless metric.

Also, the base Model 3 cars have a 0-60 of greater than 5 seconds. I'm not sure where you're getting that the slowest Tesla is in the 4s. I've definitely beat Model S cars with my Chevy SS and I'm sure I could walk a lot of the Model 3s I see around my area.

Also, the i4 seems to have significantly more range which tells me that the i4 probably has enough battery discharge to go faster and that either the estimates are very conservative or that BMW is saving a faster car for a future release. Or maybe BMW's motors aren't as good as Teslas yet.

Either way, I think you're jumping the gun. I think the real world difference in acceleration is going to be much closer than you think. The P70D is probably still going to be a bit faster, but almost surely not by a full second.
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      03-26-2019, 06:40 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
BMW is also conservative when it comes to 0-60 times. You can't use the absolute fastest time ever tested on Tesla's absolute top trim Model 3 and compare that to BMW's claimed pre-production 0-62 time. The official 0-60 time thus probably be 3.8-3.9 and I bet when reviewers test, it'll get closer to 3.5. Not as big of a difference, then. All for a fairly useless metric.

Also, the base Model 3 cars have a 0-60 of greater than 5 seconds. I'm not sure where you're getting that the slowest Tesla is in the 4s. I've definitely beat Model S cars with my Chevy SS and I'm sure I could walk a lot of the Model 3s I see around my area.

Also, the i4 seems to have significantly more range which tells me that the i4 probably has enough battery discharge to go faster and that either the estimates are very conservative or that BMW is saving a faster car for a future release. Or maybe BMW's motors aren't as good as Teslas yet.

Either way, I think you're jumping the gun. I think the real world difference in acceleration is going to be much closer than you think. The P70D is probably still going to be a bit faster, but almost surely not by a full second.
BMW has their work cut out for them, no doubt about it.

Model 3P runs low three sec times that's for sure, check all creditable publications.

Tesla Model 3 Performance has been clocked ripping dead to 60 mph in a blistering 3.18 sec.

The Model S P100D Ludicrous is the third fastest accelerating production car ever produced, with a 0-60 mph time of 2.5 seconds.
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      03-26-2019, 06:51 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN. View Post
BMW has their work cut out for them, no doubt about it.

Model 3P runs low three sec times that's for sure, check all creditable publications.

Tesla Model 3 Performance has been clocked ripping dead to 60 mph in a blistering 3.18 seconds.

The Model S P100D Ludicrous is the third fastest accelerating production car ever produced, with a 0-60 mph time of 2.5 seconds
I never denied that the Model 3 can't hit about 3.2s. Why do you keep replying to me with 0-60 times?

The M5 competition is cheaper than the Model S P100D, has a 0-60 of 2.8s, costs about the same, and is faster than the P100D in the 1/4 mile. I'd say straight line performance is about equivalent with Tesla slightly ahead at slow speeds and the M5/M5C ahead at higher speeds. We know the track performance of the M5C is nearly at supercar level, too. The Tesla is more of a stop-light race novelty. The M5 is FAR more luxurious, sounds a lot better, and IMO is just a far better looking car. All for significantly less money. So what advantage does the P100D have again exactly?

In the future, I'll buy electric cars and I'll like it. But for now, there's no compelling reason to go electric if the best we can get are Teslas. They're good cars, but I like all-around cars. There's no problem if you buy cars based on 0-60 times, but that's just not the most important aspect of a car to me. That's why I'm excited to see how the Taycans and the i4s of the car world will end up. Maybe they sacrifice some low speed acceleration, but gain a lot more in quality and dynamics.
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      03-26-2019, 06:59 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
I never denied that the Model 3 can't hit about 3.2s. Why do you keep replying to me with 0-60 times?

The M5 competition is cheaper than the Model S P100D, has a 0-60 of 2.8s, costs about the same, and is faster than the P100D in the 1/4 mile. I'd say straight line performance is about equivalent with Tesla slightly ahead at slow speeds and the M5/M5C ahead at higher speeds. We know the track performance of the M5C is nearly at supercar level, too. The Tesla is more of a stop-light race novelty. The M5 is FAR more luxurious, sounds a lot better, and IMO is just a far better looking car. All for significantly less money. So what advantage does the P100D have again exactly?

In the future, I'll buy electric cars and I'll like it. But for now, there's no compelling reason to go electric if the best we can get are Teslas. They're good cars, but I like all-around cars. There's no problem if you buy cars based on 0-60 times, but that's just not the most important aspect of a car to me. That's why I'm excited to see how the Taycans and the i4s of the car world will end up. Maybe they sacrifice some low speed acceleration, but gain a lot more in quality and dynamics.
The M5 with eMotor assist would nail low 2's.

Great times ahead.
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      03-26-2019, 07:25 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN. View Post
The M5 with eMotor assist would nail low 2's.

Great times ahead.
I think you overestimate how much it can help on a car that is already so powerful. Low 2s is extremely fast. Even the P100D, with a full electric drivetrain, can't hit low 2s on normal conditions. The M5 would need to add a bit more weight for a small motor and battery pack and the S63 already makes a ridiculous amount of torque at low RPM. The car is launched already at peak torque though with AWD, it probably could handle a bit more. But I doubt that you could improve the 0-60 time much more with a mild hybrid type system.
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      03-26-2019, 07:38 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
I think you overestimate how much it can help on a car that is already so powerful. Low 2s is extremely fast. Even the P100D, with a full electric drivetrain, can't hit low 2s on normal conditions. The M5 would need to add a bit more weight for a small motor and battery pack and the S63 already makes a ridiculous amount of torque at low RPM. The car is launched already at peak torque though with AWD, it probably could handle a bit more. But I doubt that you could improve the 0-60 time much more with a mild hybrid type system.
BMW can mount an eMotor right where the starter is just like McLaren does w/the P1, it's very simple and very effective.

Clearly BMW M has mastered their M-xDrive to get the power to the ground with little to zero fuss.

I am excited to see BMW-i and BMW-M bring together their knowledge.
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      03-26-2019, 09:36 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
600km WLTP from the expected 80kWh battery would mean a huge leap in efficiency and a parity with Model 3. No other legacy manufacturer has managed to do that yet. If BMW hits this number, the only thing that could stop it from grabbing a huge chunk of the EV market will be pricing: top level i4 would have to start under $60K to compete with Model 3 AWD, which is the closest match to it.
Model 3 does 0-60 in 3.2 secs and 310miles of range and 162mph right know

It's already game over.

By the time the i4 comes out he model 3 will be doing 0-60 2.9secs and 500miles of range

Bmw should have bought Tesla 5 years ago

Oh and it drives itself too
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      03-26-2019, 10:03 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN. View Post
The M5 with eMotor assist would nail low 2's.

Great times ahead.
Rest assured, BMW is not getting into the BEV game to win drag races against Teslas. They are doing it to make profits because consumers are starting to show adequate demand. They are demanding them because technology has led us to this point, and like with the iPhone, we just want the latest and greatest gadgets.

Just be thankful and have a little faith that BMW along with the other major players are finally joining the party with what will surely be competitive (and likely superior) BEV products for us to consume. As you said yourself, "Great times ahead."
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      03-26-2019, 10:14 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by BMW-ALPINA View Post
So sad to see that the i4 have been changed from the sexy 4-doors coupe concept to this 5-door hatchback 3-series GT look-a-like. What a disappointment.
I'm hoping that under all that camo, the i4 will still look like a car I can pretend to be Buck Rodgers driving around Erin Grey listening to Retrowave in... not a first generation A5 that it looks like now.

I want this:



Not this:

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      03-26-2019, 10:43 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
Model 3 does 0-60 in 3.2 secs and 310miles of range and 162mph right know

It's already game over.

By the time the i4 comes out he model 3 will be doing 0-60 2.9secs and 500miles of range

Bmw should have bought Tesla 5 years ago

Oh and it drives itself too
I own a Model 3. Its dynamics are great but there's no reason why BMW couldn't do as good or better while offering an improvement in all other metrics.

Oh, and there's zero chance Model 3 will have 500 mile range in 2021. You can't just wish away the existing battery chemistry limitations.
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      03-26-2019, 11:05 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
I own a Model 3. Its dynamics are great but there's no reason why BMW couldn't do as good or better while offering an improvement in all other metrics.

Oh, and there's zero chance Model 3 will have 500 mile range in 2021. You can't just wish away the existing battery chemistry limitations.
Well the i4 specs are not even close to the current model 3 specs. They are just taking a 3 series and sticking batteries where ever they find space instead of designing the car to be electric from the ground up

Put a 100kwh battery on the model 3 and you are at around 420miles

Maybe in 7-8 years they will catch up but by then who knows what Tesla will be doing
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      03-27-2019, 12:31 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
They are just taking a 3 series and sticking batteries where ever they find space instead of designing the car to be electric from the ground up
G26 is engineered right from the start to have both gas and electric versions. Of course it means compromises that would've been unnecessary with a dedicated platform. But when you say "sticking batteries wherever they find space" you just show how little you know about BMW's EV efforts.
Quote:
Put a 100kwh battery on the model 3 and you are at around 420miles
Only they won't because you can't just fit a 33% larger battery inside an existing car, and increasing the density by the same amount is virtually impossible without significant progress in battery tech.
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      03-27-2019, 12:57 AM   #82
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Uuuu i see the anxious dinosaurs are commenting on electric cars, tick tock clarice, getting nervous are we.

Good .... Good (Emperors voice)

I4 is gonna be a great car for those of us that don't want to buy a Tesla, not that there is anything wrong with Tesla, But i just want to drive an BMW with at least 400-500 km in one charge and because its BMW. So good that Tesla is making the other manufactures shift away some resources from ICE to Electric.
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      03-27-2019, 05:39 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
G26 is engineered right from the start to have both gas and electric versions. Of course it means compromises that would've been unnecessary with a dedicated platform. But when you say "sticking batteries wherever they find space" you just show how little you know about BMW's EV efforts.

Only they won't because you can't just fit a 33% larger battery inside an existing car, and increasing the density by the same amount is virtually impossible without significant progress in battery tech.
Well... that's what I mean... the car was not designed to be fully electric.. so means that some version will have an engine and transmission and they have to account for that so it won't be optimal....

the Model S initially came with a 65kwh battery and now they have 100kwh battery available... what makes you think they can't fit a bigger battery in the model 3 down the road?
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      03-27-2019, 06:12 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
That was clear at the moment we learned that the G2x range would not have separate GT and GC models.
Still a big disappointment. An hatcback is not a "Gran Coupe" in my eyes. Why can't they look to the 6GC - wich was stunning!
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      03-27-2019, 06:16 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Mako View Post
I'm hoping that under all that camo, the i4 will still look like a car I can pretend to be Buck Rodgers driving around Erin Grey listening to Retrowave in... not a first generation A5 that it looks like now.
I agree. I was planning to buy the i4 if it was like the concept (I like the futuristic look), but as for now, no thanks. I can't understand why BMW want to make the i4 Gran Coupe as a practical hatchback, and not an elegant 4-door coupe. I don't care about practical space for a car like this.
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      03-27-2019, 09:26 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by BMW-ALPINA View Post
I agree. I was planning to buy the i4 if it was like the concept (I like the futuristic look), but as for now, no thanks. I can't understand why BMW want to make the i4 Gran Coupe as a practical hatchback, and not an elegant 4-door coupe. I don't care about practical space for a car like this.
I'll be signing up for the one you don't want. It's exactly what I need.
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      03-27-2019, 12:34 PM   #87
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Well... that's what I mean... the car was not designed to be fully electric.. so means that some version will have an engine and transmission and they have to account for that so it won't be optimal....
But it won't be anywhere near "wherever they find space".
Quote:
the Model S initially came with a 65kwh battery and now they have 100kwh battery available... what makes you think they can't fit a bigger battery in the model 3 down the road?
S has a much larger footprint and has space for a big ass battery. The limited capacity of the first iterations was about production costs not space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-ALPINA View Post
Still a big disappointment. An hatcback is not a "Gran Coupe" in my eyes. Why can't they look to the 6GC - wich was stunning!
There's nothing wrong with hatchbacks. F36 4GC is a hatchback. It looks amazing and is also extremely successful as a product.
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      03-27-2019, 01:19 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
I would pick BMW as long as its comparable vehicle is $5K-$7K over Tesla's price. But if it ends up being even more expensive then Tesla wins. This is based on my personal experience of owning a bunch of BMWs and a Model 3.
if the specs and performance are very similar, it's down to bmw interior and quality vs tesla autopilot tech. personally i'm leaning towards autopilot because i can't live without it, but if bmw's version is 80% as good, i'd be willing to shell out 5K more for a bmw.

but the fundamental point is that the range and power must be comparable to begin with, if the i4 ends up with the range of the freaking etron suv then it's a bust.
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