Car Buying Advice Needed

AmooManiak · 07-27-2017, 05:24 PM

I'll try to keep it as short as possible

My parents went to see a car that was advertised as $9,500 and the dealership confirmed that the selling price is $9,500
They had a trade in that they own outright and the dealership valued it at $2,000, which is what sealed the deal to purchase the car.
Without this trade in amount, they would not have purchased it as the car they were buying can be had for less in and a better condition. The reason they went with this deal is because they were receiving less than $2,000 trade in value at the other places.
They expected the car to come out to $7,500 + Taxes + Title & Registration Fees which comes out to a total of about $8,200
When they showed me the documents, the dealership actually charged them $10,999 for the car (prior to all other fees) instead of $9,500, essentially making their trade in only $500
My parents don't speak English very well, but assumed that the price would be $7,500 based on the confirmation of the sales price of the car and the confirmation of the trade in value they agreed to.
Obviously they don't buy cars very often as most of us would have spotted this issue right away on the documents.
My parents still have possession of the title and keys to the car they traded in. They were supposed to turn that in on Monday but didn't due to this issue.
I called the dealership a few days ago and the salesman told me that he would talk to his manager and get back to me the same day. He has since been ignoring my phone calls.

What options do they have at this point? I think it's clear that the dealership sold them the car for $10,999 without their knowledge.

infinitekidM2C · 07-27-2017, 05:27 PM

in before troll storm; wait so they verbally quoted at 9.5k but the agreement says 10.5k? sounds like fraud. However many contracts have a statement that says ("parole evidence" clause check google) basically the agreement is here in this doc, anything said before or after is bullshit....something like that.

AmooManiak · 07-27-2017, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitekid2002

in before troll storm; get the contract they signed, read it and see what the extra fees/costs were ...or just ask the stealership how this happened? Was this a reputable place like Honda BMW etc. or Mike's Used Car Sales and Rape Service? - in general once you sign and you get your end of the bargain you're sort of stuck, but customer service could help...all depends on the details

No, this is a hole in the wall dealership and I'm not sure why they even went with this dealership or the car. I agree that typically if they signed it, they need to adhere to the contract however I thought that maybe them not understanding what they signed due to the verbal agreement or still having possession of the title (essentially the complete exchange of good didn't happen) would have an impact. What they want is to either get the Sale price that was agreed to, or return the car as they can get the same car for cheaper at other places.

AmooManiak · 07-27-2017, 05:37 PM

Yes, they were quoted $9.5K - I have screenshots from Autotrader where the same car is advertised as $9.5K but the dealership changed the price to $10,999 on the contract alone without telling them to make them think they're getting more for the trade in. They could have essentially just said $500 for the trade in but didn't because my parents wouldn't have taken that deal.

I agree that this is partially my parents fault for not reading the contract after they agreed to everything, but it also shows how sleazy the dealership works for changing the numbers around just to confuse them and making them think that they are getting $2,000 for the car with the sale price that was advertised on Autotrader and agreed to verbally.

infinitekidM2C · 07-27-2017, 05:38 PM

sorry read what i edited as i didnt read it close the first time. basically you had a verbal agreement for a sale of the car and then they changed it when they created the contract. right?

infinitekidM2C · 07-27-2017, 05:39 PM

yes i would gather that document and have a chat with customer service. might want to mention fraud and lawyer but be calm and collected.

AmooManiak · 07-27-2017, 05:42 PM

I mentioned the lawyer route to my parents, but they're not sure if it's worth it given the low price of the car. I wanted to get some opinions on here if a lawyer would have any impact or are they legally tied to this contract.

infinitekidM2C · 07-27-2017, 05:42 PM

It's just a threat to customer service to get them to do something.

UncleWede · 07-27-2017, 05:43 PM

"Buyer beware"

THREATEN/mention lawyer, don't retain one yet.

AmooManiak · 07-27-2017, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitekid2002

It's just a threat to customer service to get them to do something.

This is a smaller dealership where everyone seems to know each other by first name. I don't think they have customer service per se. I already talked to a manager but from what he's telling me it sounds like this is common practice for them to increase the price of the car just to give them more for the trade in. I would understand this practice if they needed to do this for payoff purposes, but my parents own the car outright and there was really no need for them to balance the numbers the way they did other than to confuse them and make them think that they are getting $2K for the trade in with the original price being unchanged.

infinitekidM2C · 07-27-2017, 05:46 PM

i'd also mention the attorney general lol...they pulled a bait and switch on your poor persian? parents

jandref321 · 07-27-2017, 05:46 PM

I'd hit up a legal forum and see if someone who understands Illinois law can help. Without knowledge of the state laws we would just be guessing.

I've been ripped off in a contract before. I went with financing with the dealer since the APR was lower, but they listed two different APRs on the contract and only showed me the lower one when signing. Something like "agreed APR: 1.99" and "Actual APR: 3.99." The guy covered the actual APR and circled the agreed APR. This was a legit Toyota Dealership...nothing I could do after the fact, I just called my bank and refinanced at 2.5%...it's been three years but maybe I should file a complaint with the BBB.

AmooManiak · 07-27-2017, 05:50 PM

Thanks, all good advice!

adrianBMW99 · 07-28-2017, 09:02 AM

All else aside, does anyone have any experience with the current gen Grand Cherokees? Are they finally reliable for 2017? I mean I get its a Chrysler Fiat product so you know... but u can get a nice new JGC Altitude right now for close to 30K... and they are super cool looking.

overcoil · 07-28-2017, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jandref321

I'd hit up a legal forum and see if someone who understands Illinois law can help. Without knowledge of the state laws we would just be guessing.

I've been ripped off in a contract before. I went with financing with the dealer since the APR was lower, but they listed two different APRs on the contract and only showed me the lower one when signing. Something like "agreed APR: 1.99" and "Actual APR: 3.99." The guy covered the actual APR and circled the agreed APR. This was a legit Toyota Dealership...nothing I could do after the fact, I just called my bank and refinanced at 2.5%...it's been three years but maybe I should file a complaint with the BBB.

fortunately the money involved here isn't too great, but even a site like Jalopnik has a lawyer advocate [Steve Lehto ?] who should have a few posted articles on transactions like this and has a book on amazon discussing these types of issues.

infinitekidM2C · 07-28-2017, 04:01 PM

Since you bumped, let us know what happens OP as it's an interesting dilemma.

Reborn_ · 07-28-2017, 04:24 PM

Just to clear something up, they should be charged TTL on 9.5k, not 7.5k. The car is sold for 9.5k +TTL -2.0k. The trade in doesn't drive down the purchase price with regards to TTL. Make sense?

BimmerAg · 07-28-2017, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reborn_

Just to clear something up, they should be charged TTL on 9.5k, not 7.5k. The car is sold for 9.5k +TTL -2.0k. The trade in doesn't drive down the purchase price with regards to TTL. Make sense?

Depends on state laws...in Texas you're only charged taxes on the difference between purchase price and trade-in value

Reborn_ · 07-28-2017, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BimmerAg

Depends on state laws...in Texas you're only charged taxes on the difference between purchase price and trade-in value

Ah, thank you. Didn't know it varied by state.

3rdcoast228i · 07-28-2017, 05:26 PM

Criminal

Don't let this scum getaway with it.

AmooManiak · 07-29-2017, 08:49 AM

We are still waiting to hear back from the Salesman. Sooner or later he will need to get back to us because my father still has the title and the keys. As far as he's concerned the title was never signed over so the deal was not completed.

As far as the taxes, in Illinois you also only pay taxes on the difference, which is why a lot of people trade their car in as opposed to selling it privately as it presents an incentive to pay less for taxes. But as we all know, the dealership tries to make money on either the trade in or the sale price (and sometimes both.)

Teufel_Hunden · 07-29-2017, 08:57 AM

Better Business Bureau (BBB). You can always file a complaint and the BBB allows you to upload documents, such as the autotrader ad and the sales contract with the higher price. BBB then contacts the dealer for a response to your complaint.

07-27-2017, 05:24 PM	#1
AmooManiak Lieutenant Colonel 632 Rep 1,585 Posts Drives: 21 X5 M50i -> M2C -> 21 M5C Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Illinois iTrader: (0)	Car Buying Advice Needed I'll try to keep it as short as possible My parents went to see a car that was advertised as $9,500 and the dealership confirmed that the selling price is $9,500 They had a trade in that they own outright and the dealership valued it at $2,000, which is what sealed the deal to purchase the car. Without this trade in amount, they would not have purchased it as the car they were buying can be had for less in and a better condition. The reason they went with this deal is because they were receiving less than $2,000 trade in value at the other places. They expected the car to come out to $7,500 + Taxes + Title & Registration Fees which comes out to a total of about $8,200 When they showed me the documents, the dealership actually charged them $10,999 for the car (prior to all other fees) instead of $9,500, essentially making their trade in only $500 My parents don't speak English very well, but assumed that the price would be $7,500 based on the confirmation of the sales price of the car and the confirmation of the trade in value they agreed to. Obviously they don't buy cars very often as most of us would have spotted this issue right away on the documents. My parents still have possession of the title and keys to the car they traded in. They were supposed to turn that in on Monday but didn't due to this issue. I called the dealership a few days ago and the salesman told me that he would talk to his manager and get back to me the same day. He has since been ignoring my phone calls. What options do they have at this point? I think it's clear that the dealership sold them the car for $10,999 without their knowledge. Last edited by AmooManiak; 07-27-2017 at 05:31 PM..
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07-27-2017, 05:27 PM	#2
infinitekidM2C Major General 4206 Rep 5,728 Posts Drives: 2019 M2 Competition Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Orange County, CA iTrader: (4) Garage List 2019 M2 COMPETITION [9.50] 2008 135i (my old car) [7.39]	in before troll storm; wait so they verbally quoted at 9.5k but the agreement says 10.5k? sounds like fraud. However many contracts have a statement that says ("parole evidence" clause check google) basically the agreement is here in this doc, anything said before or after is bullshit....something like that. Last edited by infinitekidM2C; 07-27-2017 at 05:32 PM..
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07-27-2017, 05:37 PM	#4
AmooManiak Lieutenant Colonel 632 Rep 1,585 Posts Drives: 21 X5 M50i -> M2C -> 21 M5C Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Illinois iTrader: (0)	Yes, they were quoted $9.5K - I have screenshots from Autotrader where the same car is advertised as $9.5K but the dealership changed the price to $10,999 on the contract alone without telling them to make them think they're getting more for the trade in. They could have essentially just said $500 for the trade in but didn't because my parents wouldn't have taken that deal. I agree that this is partially my parents fault for not reading the contract after they agreed to everything, but it also shows how sleazy the dealership works for changing the numbers around just to confuse them and making them think that they are getting $2,000 for the car with the sale price that was advertised on Autotrader and agreed to verbally.
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07-27-2017, 05:38 PM	#5
infinitekidM2C Major General 4206 Rep 5,728 Posts Drives: 2019 M2 Competition Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Orange County, CA iTrader: (4) Garage List 2019 M2 COMPETITION [9.50] 2008 135i (my old car) [7.39]	sorry read what i edited as i didnt read it close the first time. basically you had a verbal agreement for a sale of the car and then they changed it when they created the contract. right?
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07-27-2017, 05:39 PM	#6
infinitekidM2C Major General 4206 Rep 5,728 Posts Drives: 2019 M2 Competition Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Orange County, CA iTrader: (4) Garage List 2019 M2 COMPETITION [9.50] 2008 135i (my old car) [7.39]	yes i would gather that document and have a chat with customer service. might want to mention fraud and lawyer but be calm and collected.
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07-27-2017, 05:42 PM	#7
AmooManiak Lieutenant Colonel 632 Rep 1,585 Posts Drives: 21 X5 M50i -> M2C -> 21 M5C Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Illinois iTrader: (0)	I mentioned the lawyer route to my parents, but they're not sure if it's worth it given the low price of the car. I wanted to get some opinions on here if a lawyer would have any impact or are they legally tied to this contract.
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07-27-2017, 05:43 PM	#9
UncleWede Long Time Admirer, First Time Owner 17963 Rep 9,377 Posts Drives: G01 X3 M40i Dark Graphite Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Oxnard, CA iTrader: (0)	"Buyer beware" THREATEN/mention lawyer, don't retain one yet.
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07-27-2017, 05:46 PM	#11
infinitekidM2C Major General 4206 Rep 5,728 Posts Drives: 2019 M2 Competition Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Orange County, CA iTrader: (4) Garage List 2019 M2 COMPETITION [9.50] 2008 135i (my old car) [7.39]	i'd also mention the attorney general lol...they pulled a bait and switch on your poor persian? parents
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07-27-2017, 05:46 PM	#12
jandref321 Captain 344 Rep 728 Posts Drives: 2012 X5M Join Date: May 2014 Location: United States iTrader: (1)	I'd hit up a legal forum and see if someone who understands Illinois law can help. Without knowledge of the state laws we would just be guessing. I've been ripped off in a contract before. I went with financing with the dealer since the APR was lower, but they listed two different APRs on the contract and only showed me the lower one when signing. Something like "agreed APR: 1.99" and "Actual APR: 3.99." The guy covered the actual APR and circled the agreed APR. This was a legit Toyota Dealership...nothing I could do after the fact, I just called my bank and refinanced at 2.5%...it's been three years but maybe I should file a complaint with the BBB. __________________ 2020 G01 X3 30e CURRENT M Sport Package 2019 Ford Raptor SuperCrew CURRENT 802A, KN Drop-in, RB Flaps, Husky Well Liners 2012 E70 X5M SOLD Stg 1+ Turbos, DPs, Velos Stg 2+, JB4, Race Cats, Bavauto Coils 2003 E46 M3 SOLD aFe CAI, AP Axleback, SSK, H&R Springs, TMS CMBR Arms, PF RTABs
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07-27-2017, 05:50 PM	#13
AmooManiak Lieutenant Colonel 632 Rep 1,585 Posts Drives: 21 X5 M50i -> M2C -> 21 M5C Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Illinois iTrader: (0)	Thanks, all good advice!
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07-28-2017, 09:02 AM	#14
adrianBMW99 First Lieutenant 90 Rep 328 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: FL iTrader: (0)	All else aside, does anyone have any experience with the current gen Grand Cherokees? Are they finally reliable for 2017? I mean I get its a Chrysler Fiat product so you know... but u can get a nice new JGC Altitude right now for close to 30K... and they are super cool looking.
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07-28-2017, 04:01 PM	#16
infinitekidM2C Major General 4206 Rep 5,728 Posts Drives: 2019 M2 Competition Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Orange County, CA iTrader: (4) Garage List 2019 M2 COMPETITION [9.50] 2008 135i (my old car) [7.39]	Since you bumped, let us know what happens OP as it's an interesting dilemma.
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07-28-2017, 04:24 PM	#17
Reborn_ Lieutenant 295 Rep 410 Posts Drives: 2007 BMW Z4MC Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: SoCal iTrader: (7)	Just to clear something up, they should be charged TTL on 9.5k, not 7.5k. The car is sold for 9.5k +TTL -2.0k. The trade in doesn't drive down the purchase price with regards to TTL. Make sense?
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07-28-2017, 05:26 PM	#20
3rdcoast228i Captain 225 Rep 610 Posts Drives: 2016 228i Msport Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Texas iTrader: (0)	Criminal Don't let this scum getaway with it.
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07-29-2017, 08:49 AM	#21
AmooManiak Lieutenant Colonel 632 Rep 1,585 Posts Drives: 21 X5 M50i -> M2C -> 21 M5C Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Illinois iTrader: (0)	We are still waiting to hear back from the Salesman. Sooner or later he will need to get back to us because my father still has the title and the keys. As far as he's concerned the title was never signed over so the deal was not completed. As far as the taxes, in Illinois you also only pay taxes on the difference, which is why a lot of people trade their car in as opposed to selling it privately as it presents an incentive to pay less for taxes. But as we all know, the dealership tries to make money on either the trade in or the sale price (and sometimes both.)
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07-29-2017, 08:57 AM	#22
Teufel_Hunden Banned 8355 Rep 2,963 Posts Drives: 2013 M3 6MT LMB ZCP Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Maryland iTrader: (3)	Better Business Bureau (BBB). You can always file a complaint and the BBB allows you to upload documents, such as the autotrader ad and the sales contract with the higher price. BBB then contacts the dealer for a response to your complaint.
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