BMW
X1 / X2
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos When will you buy a Tesla?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-04-2021, 03:30 PM   #177
The HACK
Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class
The HACK's Avatar
1757
Rep
5,344
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
There are two threads here:

"When will you buy an EV?"
"Would you ever buy a Tesla?"
I'm going to just say this. And this is my last word on this thread. I promise.

I've owned multiple EVs. In fact, my first was a Fiat 500e. Then a BMW i3. Then a Chevy Bolt. Believe you me, I didn't believe in the Tesla hype.

Then I bought a Tesla.

If you never own one, or have gone through the process to buy one, you won't understand. It's not like I haven't bought "viable" EVs before. The i3 was about as unique an experience as one can have with an EV. It was an engineering marvel. The Bolt can travel up to 240 miles without a charge, so in terms of range, it's certainly comparable.

But to say that this discussion is 2 questions? Bull. I will tell you this, now. If you're even remotely considering an EV, there's no point NOT giving Tesla the first look. And at that point, you're not convinced you like the Tesla, then an EV is likely not for you. And again, at this point, if you STILL insist on buying an EV, then the ONLY thing on the market that you should even consider is a Porsche Taycan.

After owning the Fiat 500e, BMW i3, and the Chevy Bolt for extended time, Tesla is at least 5 years ahead of everyone else. And if you factor in the ownership experience, at least 15 years ahead of everyone else.
__________________
Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19” monitor.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 03:37 PM   #178
David70
Colonel
United_States
1484
Rep
2,583
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4M Coupe - 13 Cadillac ATS
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Hence why this thread is a mess.

The OP has been brainwashed into believing there is only one manufacturer building viable EVs. This, even as he declares his brand independence. That's the power of social media hype combined with failure to do homework.

There are two threads here:

"When will you buy an EV?"
"Would you ever buy a Tesla?"

The first one could be a productive discussion. The second has been rehashed 97 times on this forum alone is repost after repost after repost. I was going to attempt to fix the situation, but this hydra has run amok too long to be stopped so it is what it is.
I agree. I doubt I will ever buy a Tesla but hard to be sure, I think I will buy an EV in the next 5 years. I said it before but I am not willing to spend $45k for pretty much a base electric so while Tesla currently has the best EV available they don't have anything to offer for a price I am willing to spend. I also am not thrilled with their service location options. Both what they offer and their support could improve and with it my thoughts would change.
__________________
2006 Z4M Coupe - Stromung exhaust, ZHP knob, stubby antenna, clutch delay delete
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 03:54 PM   #179
heavyD^2
Lieutenant Colonel
heavyD^2's Avatar
Canada
2062
Rep
1,942
Posts

Drives: X3M Competition
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
You need to go drive one.

Disclaimer: I've bought nothing but BMWs for the last 25 years. Going as far back as I can remember I have had nearly nothing but BMWs in my garage. At one point I even have a BMW gasoline car, a BMW diesel, and a BMW electric in my garage. I am about as BMW fan-boi as one can get.

Yet when my C7 Corvette Grand Sport blew an engine at Laguna Seca, and GM decided it's not worth their time to try and fix it and cut me a check for the car, what did I buy?

A Model 3 Dual Motor Long Range.

Not a BMW 3 or 4 series, not a BMW X3, nor any future BMW "I" offerings (I don't need a car, I still have 2 BMWs in the garage for 2 adult drivers). When I test drove a Tesla Dual Motor last October, it drove better, accelerate better, and handled better than ANY BMW I have driven except my Z4 M Coupe. And the Z4 M is hard to live with on a daily basis (although I will if I have to like I have in the past).

Unlike any of the newer BMWs, they handle well despite the weight, the Tesla handled well BECAUSE of the weight. All of it is down low underneath you. None of that 500+ lbs of motor siting high up. So much of the mass is concentrated down low, and there's so much mass improving traction, and so much torque easily available at all times without waiting for an engine to spool up, that it drove like nothing else I've ever driven.

Even compared to the C7 Grand Sport with its massive 6.1 liter V-8, you simply can't compare how quickly all the power and torque is available to you in an electric motor. The Corvette was FAST. Fastest car I've owned. Eye opening fast. But it felt SLOW by comparison. Even though the 0-60 in the Tesla is only marginally faster than the C7, the sensation it delivered is NEXT LEVEL. And the Corvette sits down low, with low ground clearance, and a pushrod V8 sitting as low as possible in the engine bay, and even then you can't compare having ALL the weight of the car sitting fully underneath you, not around your mid-section.

The biggest difference is, the Model 3 came with 235mm wide ALL SEASON tires. So they will give up the ghost long before the Z4 M Coupe in a corner, or the C7 Grand Sport (which came with 285mm front, 335mm rear MICHELIN PILOT CUP 2's). So the maximum speed one can carry in a corner is highly dependent on the tire the Tesla is using. But as for handling and feel? My Dual Motor Long Range will tackle any corner with aplomb and composure.

And since I still have a BMW that will do 600+ miles on a single fill-up (okay, the best I've done is 580 miles, but that's with multiple stints at 100mph on stretches) and can fill up virtually anywhere there's diesel sold, I don't really care one way or another that the Tesla can't be filled up in less than 20 minutes when it's ran dry. In 6 weeks it's only been "topped off" twice. And that's when I plug it in at night, and next morning it's magically filled up.

As a long, LONG time car guy, and an early adapter of electricity as a mode of transportation, but a LATE comer to Tesla, I will say this.

Don't buy a Tesla. Don't EVER buy a Tesla. Because if and when you do, you will see the world entirely differently, and you will never be able to buy a car like a normie anymore.

I walked away from this experience knowing I will never, ever buy a car differently. I test drove a car with zero sales pressure. The guy left a key with me with zero pressure to return it. Never discussed with me when I have to order, never bothered to ask me to put down a deposit. All he said was, "when you're ready to place an order, just go to Tesla.com. And if you have a referral code, make sure you enter it to get free 1,000 miles charging."

We never talked price. Never even whipped out a piece of paper with the "quadrant." No talks of "how much can you afford?" "What's your monthly payment budget?" "What does it take to put you in a Tesla today?" I literally never even talked to a sales person except to arrange for the test drive. And after I placed the order, every thing was handled through an online portal. On the day I picked up the car, it was "here's your key Mr HACK, there's some paperwork in the car. Once you sign it, pull up to the front of the dealership and return it to the attendant. Congratulations."

I was in and out of the "dealership" in less than 30 minutes, and that included time walking over to Starbucks for a cup of coffee.

In the first week I had the car, someone kicked up a piece of rock on the freeway and cracked my windshield. I arranged for service to replace the windshield using my phone's Tesla app, drop the car off the very next Monday, and had the car back on the same day. And again, talked to a "service advisor" for less than 10 minutes, he texted me a Uber voucher good for $200 so I can get around for the rest of the day. Done.

Compared to my last car purchase, which we spent over 2 days back and forth with the dealership haggling, car spent over 9 months at the dealership in the 18 months I owned it, and just the NIGHTMARE process of dealing with a third party that does not have anyone's best interest in mind? This ownership experience has completely changed my perception of how the automotive industry sucks in general and how the whole dealership model is just the worst.

So yeah.

DON'T EVER BUY A TESLA. Heed my words.
LOL this reads like a bad infomercial. I feel like the ShamWow guy should be narrating this post.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 03:57 PM   #180
Vivek.
Captain
783
Rep
975
Posts

Drives: 335is coupe, e30 vert
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Los Gatos, California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Lease the Tesla

The iPace has crappy range and is overpriced for what you get
If you're looking into a model 3, just buy and resell it down the line. Used values are insane, you can put 20-40k miles on it over 1-3 years and lose a couple grand total on the ownership. People don't want to wait on the waitlist and Tesla tries to control what cars are released to the used market (leased cars don't have a buy out option and are recycled rather than re-sold by Tesla)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJD851 View Post
The build and paint quality is almost laughable considering the price of the car. I know folks that work in the factory, one worked for GM before and he's shocked at the tolerances and general lack of QC. I get it, you're paying for the technology etc etc but the panel fitments and paint quality are worthy of a car costing much less. My ppf installer found a bunch of these, and I was able to get the more obvious ones fixed by Tesla without much issue.
It's not almost laughable, it's a complete joke. One of my close friends (guy whose 135i convinced me to get my e92) took delivery of his 2021 Model 3 last weekend. We took it on a little road trip on Friday and I noticed that the fender to door gap gets really narrow in the middle, seems acceptable at the top, and is way too wide at the bottom. It's like the body panels are not stamped/cut properly--didn't look like any amount of adjustment would get them to fit right because the edges aren't even the same shape. This is one of countless QC grievances on the car. They even left some tape on the headliner and managed to put 10,000 miles worth of shoe scuffs on the driver's door sill on the brand new car before delivery.

The range is...fine. He has the long range 3 and we started at around 52% IIRC, drove it for about 10 hours and had to charge 3 times. All 3 times we stopped for the duration of a 20-min netflix episode (every charging spot had data service) and after that we were on our way. Battery charge ranged between 92 and 20% over the trip. If we had planned properly and left on a full charge we might've been able to get away with only 1 charging stop....but that's not something we have to plan for 12 hours in advance on a ICE car so why should we have to deal with that complication

It's not much of an inconvenience....as long as you're aimlessly driving down the coast for fun with no real schedule or destination. The charging time is really fast at a supercharger, but the exercise of finding one and planning your route around it is annoying.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 04:08 PM   #181
///M TOWN
.
///M TOWN's Avatar
4250
Rep
4,184
Posts

Drives: M GmbH
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: North America

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivek. View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Lease the Tesla

The iPace has crappy range and is overpriced for what you get
If you're looking into a model 3, just buy and resell it down the line. Used values are insane, you can put 20-40k miles on it over 1-3 years and lose a couple grand total on the ownership. People don't want to wait on the waitlist and Tesla tries to control what cars are released to the used market (leased cars don't have a buy out option and are recycled rather than re-sold by Tesla)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJD851 View Post
The build and paint quality is almost laughable considering the price of the car. I know folks that work in the factory, one worked for GM before and he's shocked at the tolerances and general lack of QC. I get it, you're paying for the technology etc etc but the panel fitments and paint quality are worthy of a car costing much less. My ppf installer found a bunch of these, and I was able to get the more obvious ones fixed by Tesla without much issue.
It's not almost laughable, it's a complete joke. One of my close friends (guy whose 135i convinced me to get my e92) took delivery of his 2021 Model 3 last weekend. We took it on a little road trip on Friday and I noticed that the fender to door gap gets really narrow in the middle, seems acceptable at the top, and is way too wide at the bottom. It's like the body panels are not stamped/cut properly--didn't look like any amount of adjustment would get them to fit right because the edges aren't even the same shape. This is one of countless QC grievances on the car. They even left some tape on the headliner and managed to put 10,000 miles worth of shoe scuffs on the driver's door sill on the brand new car before delivery.

The range is...fine. He has the long range 3 and we started at around 52% IIRC, drove it for about 10 hours and had to charge 3 times. All 3 times we stopped for the duration of a 20-min netflix episode (every charging spot had data service) and after that we were on our way. Battery charge ranged between 92 and 20% over the trip. If we had planned properly and left on a full charge we might've been able to get away with only 1 charging stop....but that's not something we have to plan for 12 hours in advance on a ICE car so why should we have to deal with that complication

It's not much of an inconvenience....as long as you're aimlessly driving down the coast for fun with no real schedule or destination. The charging time is really fast at a supercharger, but the exercise of finding one and planning your route around it is annoying.
I'd never buy any Electric Car, I only lease them and give them back

And as far as I know there is no wait currently on a model 3

Not worth the depreciation or the risk of ownership
__________________
///
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 04:46 PM   #182
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7015
Rep
19,301
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
I'm going to just say this. And this is my last word on this thread. I promise.
Sounds good. I'll absolutely hold you to that.

Quote:
But to say that this discussion is 2 questions? Bull. I will tell you this, now. If you're even remotely considering an EV, there's no point NOT giving Tesla the first look. And at that point, you're not convinced you like the Tesla, then an EV is likely not for you.
I gave the Tesla Model 3 a look when I was in the market and passed.

Instead, I bought a Ford Focus Electric and it has served me well and met my needs as a daily driver for the two-plus years I've owned it. It gave me the chance to try out an EV for my use cases at a relatively low price point (cost me <$20k).

Later this year, I intend to purchase a Ford Mustang Mach E GT to replace the other vehicle in my garage. I decided on the Mach E GT because I believe it will offer better quality than what I could get from competitors, because I like the idea of supporting the local company at this juncture, and because I think it's going to be one hell of a fun vehicle. The reviews of the Mach E have been almost universally positive. By all indications, it's set to become an extremely successful product family for Ford.

So nope, no sir. Deciding to buy an EV is not the same as deciding to buy a Tesla product.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 05:11 PM   #183
M3_WC
Brigadier General
1030
Rep
3,628
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Model S Plaid can do 520 miles on a single charge. At freeway speeds it loses up to 20% range. So the S Plaid can easily make 400+ miles at 70+ mph.

Granted it cost $136K.
Would never pay that for an S. Also doesn't even exist yet. When their $50k car can do that range, I am down. I don't need the performance(not what this car would be for), long range 3 I test drove was plenty quick enough.

On another note, I asked my insurance agent how much insurance cost on a model 3 long range. His reply was more than the GT4 I have incoming. What the hell, that can't be right. Are people really paying that for insurance? He also said long range and performance premium is the same, since they are both dual motor.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 05:19 PM   #184
M3_WC
Brigadier General
1030
Rep
3,628
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Later this year, I intend to purchase a Ford Mustang Mach E GT to replace the other vehicle in my garage. I decided on the Mach E GT because I believe it will offer better quality than what I could get from competitors, because I like the idea of supporting the local company at this juncture, and because I think it's going to be one hell of a fun vehicle. The reviews of the Mach E have been almost universally positive. By all indications, it's set to become an extremely successful product family for Ford.

So nope, no sir. Deciding to buy an EV is not the same as deciding to buy a Tesla product.
I am interested in the Mach E as well. Honestly Ford did a fantastic job with the car. My main reason I am leaning towards Tesla is the supercharger network.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 05:20 PM   #185
5.M0NSTER
Lieutenant Colonel
5.M0NSTER's Avatar
United_States
2275
Rep
1,580
Posts

Drives: 2017 BMW M2 6MT Drivers Pack
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Little north of Stuttgart, Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
You need to go drive one.

Disclaimer: I've bought nothing but BMWs for the last 25 years. Going as far back as I can remember I have had nearly nothing but BMWs in my garage. At one point I even have a BMW gasoline car, a BMW diesel, and a BMW electric in my garage. I am about as BMW fan-boi as one can get.

Yet when my C7 Corvette Grand Sport blew an engine at Laguna Seca, and GM decided it's not worth their time to try and fix it and cut me a check for the car, what did I buy?

A Model 3 Dual Motor Long Range.

Not a BMW 3 or 4 series, not a BMW X3, nor any future BMW "I" offerings (I don't need a car, I still have 2 BMWs in the garage for 2 adult drivers). When I test drove a Tesla Dual Motor last October, it drove better, accelerate better, and handled better than ANY BMW I have driven except my Z4 M Coupe. And the Z4 M is hard to live with on a daily basis (although I will if I have to like I have in the past).

Unlike any of the newer BMWs, they handle well despite the weight, the Tesla handled well BECAUSE of the weight. All of it is down low underneath you. None of that 500+ lbs of motor siting high up. So much of the mass is concentrated down low, and there's so much mass improving traction, and so much torque easily available at all times without waiting for an engine to spool up, that it drove like nothing else I've ever driven.

Even compared to the C7 Grand Sport with its massive 6.1 liter V-8, you simply can't compare how quickly all the power and torque is available to you in an electric motor. The Corvette was FAST. Fastest car I've owned. Eye opening fast. But it felt SLOW by comparison. Even though the 0-60 in the Tesla is only marginally faster than the C7, the sensation it delivered is NEXT LEVEL. And the Corvette sits down low, with low ground clearance, and a pushrod V8 sitting as low as possible in the engine bay, and even then you can't compare having ALL the weight of the car sitting fully underneath you, not around your mid-section.

The biggest difference is, the Model 3 came with 235mm wide ALL SEASON tires. So they will give up the ghost long before the Z4 M Coupe in a corner, or the C7 Grand Sport (which came with 285mm front, 335mm rear MICHELIN PILOT CUP 2's). So the maximum speed one can carry in a corner is highly dependent on the tire the Tesla is using. But as for handling and feel? My Dual Motor Long Range will tackle any corner with aplomb and composure.

And since I still have a BMW that will do 600+ miles on a single fill-up (okay, the best I've done is 580 miles, but that's with multiple stints at 100mph on stretches) and can fill up virtually anywhere there's diesel sold, I don't really care one way or another that the Tesla can't be filled up in less than 20 minutes when it's ran dry. In 6 weeks it's only been "topped off" twice. And that's when I plug it in at night, and next morning it's magically filled up.

As a long, LONG time car guy, and an early adapter of electricity as a mode of transportation, but a LATE comer to Tesla, I will say this.

Don't buy a Tesla. Don't EVER buy a Tesla. Because if and when you do, you will see the world entirely differently, and you will never be able to buy a car like a normie anymore.

I walked away from this experience knowing I will never, ever buy a car differently. I test drove a car with zero sales pressure. The guy left a key with me with zero pressure to return it. Never discussed with me when I have to order, never bothered to ask me to put down a deposit. All he said was, "when you're ready to place an order, just go to Tesla.com. And if you have a referral code, make sure you enter it to get free 1,000 miles charging."

We never talked price. Never even whipped out a piece of paper with the "quadrant." No talks of "how much can you afford?" "What's your monthly payment budget?" "What does it take to put you in a Tesla today?" I literally never even talked to a sales person except to arrange for the test drive. And after I placed the order, every thing was handled through an online portal. On the day I picked up the car, it was "here's your key Mr HACK, there's some paperwork in the car. Once you sign it, pull up to the front of the dealership and return it to the attendant. Congratulations."

I was in and out of the "dealership" in less than 30 minutes, and that included time walking over to Starbucks for a cup of coffee.

In the first week I had the car, someone kicked up a piece of rock on the freeway and cracked my windshield. I arranged for service to replace the windshield using my phone's Tesla app, drop the car off the very next Monday, and had the car back on the same day. And again, talked to a "service advisor" for less than 10 minutes, he texted me a Uber voucher good for $200 so I can get around for the rest of the day. Done.

Compared to my last car purchase, which we spent over 2 days back and forth with the dealership haggling, car spent over 9 months at the dealership in the 18 months I owned it, and just the NIGHTMARE process of dealing with a third party that does not have anyone's best interest in mind? This ownership experience has completely changed my perception of how the automotive industry sucks in general and how the whole dealership model is just the worst.

So yeah.

DON'T EVER BUY A TESLA. Heed my words.
wow, an electric motor delivering instant TQ, who would have thought?

And you can't tell me that a model 3 feels balanced, or that it handles well. And I don't mean being comfortable around town. I mean 9 or 10/10 on the track.

One defining question. Have you ever gotten your tesla to slide a corner....

Yeah, I thought not.

It's a quick accelerating appliance. As designed.

P.S. Looking forward to hear your report on how easy going they are when you need to replace battery when the initial current performance (and hence straight line acceleration) drops by 20%
__________________
2017 BMW M2 German Spec
6MT, Driver's Package

"Redline a day keeps the mechanics away"

Last edited by 5.M0NSTER; 01-04-2021 at 05:25 PM..
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 05:24 PM   #186
KingOfJericho
Major General
KingOfJericho's Avatar
United_States
2428
Rep
7,349
Posts

Drives: Yes
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CT

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2010 135i Coupe  [2.63]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
wow, an electric motor delivering instant TQ, who would have thought?

And you can't tell me that a model 3 feel balanced, or that it handles well. And I don't mean being comfortable around town. I mean 9 or 10/10 on the track.

One defining question. Have you ever gotten your tesla to slide a corner....

Yeah, I thought not.

It's a quick accelerating appliance. As designed.
How often are you sliding corners on your way to work? Riding 9 or 10/10 on the track?

Have you ever summoned your M2 to pick you up at the front door? Can you take the hands off the wheel and pedals in heavy traffic? Can you walk up to it with no key (just your cellphone) and drive away?

Yeah, I thought not.

I buy cars for their primary intended use.
__________________
The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Bimmerpost.

2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee High Altitude Hemi | 2010 S4 Sold | 2010 BMW 135i Retired | 2006 Lotus Exige Sold
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 05:32 PM   #187
dreamingat30fps
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
1798
Rep
1,537
Posts

Drives: Model 3, Mustang GT, F350
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
How often are you sliding corners on your way to work? Riding 9 or 10/10 on the track?

Have you ever summoned your M2 to pick you up at the front door? Can you take the hands off the wheel and pedals in heavy traffic? Can you walk up to it with no key (just your cellphone) and drive away?

Yeah, I thought not.

I buy cars for their primary intended use.
Are you telling me you don't track your minivan??? Damn, I only bought my F350 because I was told it was faster around the nurburgring than a 911.
Appreciate 1
chris7194339.00

      01-04-2021, 05:45 PM   #188
Vivek.
Captain
783
Rep
975
Posts

Drives: 335is coupe, e30 vert
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Los Gatos, California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Would never pay that for an S. Also doesn't even exist yet. When their $50k car can do that range, I am down. I don't need the performance(not what this car would be for), long range 3 I test drove was plenty quick enough.

On another note, I asked my insurance agent how much insurance cost on a model 3 long range. His reply was more than the GT4 I have incoming. What the hell, that can't be right. Are people really paying that for insurance? He also said long range and performance premium is the same, since they are both dual motor.
In CA Tesla offers their own insurance, I've heard its generally much less than the big insurance companies. May be worth at least getting a quote if you're in the market.

Porsches tend to have very low insurance rates for their class so it may not be the best comparison. I'd be shocked if it costs more than a Corvette, for example.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 07:23 PM   #189
The HACK
Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class
The HACK's Avatar
1757
Rep
5,344
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
One defining question. Have you ever gotten your tesla to slide a corner....

Yeah, I thought not.
Don’t make assumptions about me you can’t confirm.

But to answer your question. No I have not slide MY Tesla Model 3 through a corner at 9/10th on track. I have, however, done so in SOMEONE ELSE’s Tesla Model 3 at speed, on track.

One was one of our fellow instructor’s Model 3 RW Long Range. He wasn’t made an instructor at the time, I was his last instructor before he was “made.” I got to drive his car angry. And it didn’t disappoint. It didn’t “wow” because I like my track car to make vroom vroom noises. Would I take my Tesla to a Pacific Region BMW CCA DE? Probably once or twice. That’s just the SOP for being my car (had the i3 or the Bolt or the Fiat had enough range to make it to a local track and finish a session without running out of charge, I would have taken them to the track. In fact, those are the ONLY three cars in my possession that I’ve never taken to the track in the last 20 years).

The other was a car belonging to a Tesla engineer that signed up for one of our CCA DEs. I didn’t want to drive that at 9/10th because she was a D student and unlikely to learn or enjoy her car being driven at that speed. But I wrung it out as best as one could in the “C” group (do I need to explain? I will if I have to). Funny thing is, every instructor wanted to take turns on that Tesla. It got driven like the village bicycle that day. But it held up well enough for a fairly early production car.

I think for a track car? Doesn’t pass the vroom vroom test. I would never permanently use it for track. But it holds its own agains most sports sedans. With the right tires it’ll hang with an M car for a lap or two. If there’s only one track day left in the world? There’s no way I’d take the Tesla out of the three cars left in the garage. If I’m doing 6-8 weekends again once the COVID thing is done? There’s absolutely no way I’d not use the Model 3 for at least 1 weekend at the track (if it’s the right track, like Auto Club Speedway where there’s 240V plugs available in the garage, or Laguna, or Buttonwillow where there’s a Supercharger near by).
__________________
Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19” monitor.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 08:34 PM   #190
P1
Major General
P1's Avatar
United_States
7638
Rep
9,674
Posts

Drives: Cars
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: United States

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Hence why this thread is a mess.

The OP has been brainwashed into believing there is only one manufacturer building viable EVs. This, even as he declares his brand independence. That's the power of social media hype combined with failure to do homework.

There are two threads here:

"When will you buy an EV?"
"Would you ever buy a Tesla?"

The first one could be a productive discussion. The second has been rehashed 97 times on this forum alone is repost after repost after repost. I was going to attempt to fix the situation, but this hydra has run amok too long to be stopped so it is what it is.


Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 09:03 PM   #191
ASAP
Major General
ASAP's Avatar
No_Country
4043
Rep
5,184
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Heat Nation

iTrader: (0)

What would prevent me from buying a Tesla is mainly the fact that they are not interested in a drivers car... the company is setup to run like a software company and ultimately that does not equal drivers engagement nor enthusiasm. The 2nd thing would be overall build quality... as far as electric cars in general... nothing would stop be from buying a Porsche Taycan other than the fact that I cannot afford one.

As far as hate on Elon... well there are at least 50 reasons that I can name right off the bat where dislike for him would be warranted. He is super shady in mind and brought his company to the top due to consistent investor over promises, massive government incentives, a massive California progressive population / Hollywood elite that helped his product and then later hating on that very state that gave him almost everything he had and blackmailing them into leaving for having to pay taxes... talk about being a two faced person. He literally played the system in everyway to take Tesla to the top and ultimately the financials of his company would not have allowed any other to survive.
Appreciate 1
P17638.00

      01-05-2021, 02:05 AM   #192
5.M0NSTER
Lieutenant Colonel
5.M0NSTER's Avatar
United_States
2275
Rep
1,580
Posts

Drives: 2017 BMW M2 6MT Drivers Pack
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Little north of Stuttgart, Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
How often are you sliding corners on your way to work? Riding 9 or 10/10 on the track?

Have you ever summoned your M2 to pick you up at the front door? Can you take the hands off the wheel and pedals in heavy traffic? Can you walk up to it with no key (just your cellphone) and drive away?

Yeah, I thought not.
To answer your questions:

How often are you sliding corners on your way to work?

3 times per week minimum. More so when it's wet or slippery. I have 2 opportunities a day. First is a exit of a roundabout which connects to a increasing radius uphill right hander. Clear view of both sides of the road and what is coming at you. If I nail the exit of the roundabout right, I can keep the drift going well up the hill. Super rewarding feeling.

The second is leaving work. There is a private road I take, which had a perfect 90 degree slightly downhill left curve. On the way to work is far too busy, but on the way from work it's mainly people leaving, and traffic is scarce.

Riding 9 or 10/10 on the track?

4-5 times per year. Will be more when I get back stateside for sure. Been in the advanced groups for a few years now. Never had a desire to teach millennials how to drive, so never made an effort to be an instructor.

Have you ever summoned your M2 to pick you up at the front door? Can you take the hands off the wheel and pedals in heavy traffic? Can you walk up to it with no key (just your cellphone) and drive away?

No, never. None of the things you listed cause driver enjoyment, or lead to driver engagement. So no, never even gave any of this any thought or consideration.
__________________
2017 BMW M2 German Spec
6MT, Driver's Package

"Redline a day keeps the mechanics away"
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2021, 02:16 AM   #193
5.M0NSTER
Lieutenant Colonel
5.M0NSTER's Avatar
United_States
2275
Rep
1,580
Posts

Drives: 2017 BMW M2 6MT Drivers Pack
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Little north of Stuttgart, Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Don’t make assumptions about me you can’t confirm.

But to answer your question. No I have not slide MY Tesla Model 3 through a corner at 9/10th on track. I have, however, done so in SOMEONE ELSE’s Tesla Model 3 at speed, on track.

One was one of our fellow instructor’s Model 3 RW Long Range. He wasn’t made an instructor at the time, I was his last instructor before he was “made.” I got to drive his car angry. And it didn’t disappoint. It didn’t “wow” because I like my track car to make vroom vroom noises. Would I take my Tesla to a Pacific Region BMW CCA DE? Probably once or twice. That’s just the SOP for being my car (had the i3 or the Bolt or the Fiat had enough range to make it to a local track and finish a session without running out of charge, I would have taken them to the track. In fact, those are the ONLY three cars in my possession that I’ve never taken to the track in the last 20 years).

The other was a car belonging to a Tesla engineer that signed up for one of our CCA DEs. I didn’t want to drive that at 9/10th because she was a D student and unlikely to learn or enjoy her car being driven at that speed. But I wrung it out as best as one could in the “C” group (do I need to explain? I will if I have to). Funny thing is, every instructor wanted to take turns on that Tesla. It got driven like the village bicycle that day. But it held up well enough for a fairly early production car.

I think for a track car? Doesn’t pass the vroom vroom test. I would never permanently use it for track. But it holds its own agains most sports sedans. With the right tires it’ll hang with an M car for a lap or two. If there’s only one track day left in the world? There’s no way I’d take the Tesla out of the three cars left in the garage. If I’m doing 6-8 weekends again once the COVID thing is done? There’s absolutely no way I’d not use the Model 3 for at least 1 weekend at the track (if it’s the right track, like Auto Club Speedway where there’s 240V plugs available in the garage, or Laguna, or Buttonwillow where there’s a Supercharger near by).
So what I'm reading between the lines is that driving a Tesla at the track is kind of like dating a fat girl. It can be fun, but you don't want your friends to see you.

I have driven S, X and 3 at the limit at a test track. I've also had the pleasure of doing the same with many exotics on a closed course. I would rather take a Fiat Abarth around a track than any Tesla.

Tracks don't have the infrastructure to support EVs, and they take way too long to charge.

And you already reached a conclusion that something is missing from the driving experience.

I get EVs as people movers, and they have potential to be more fun in the future. Torque vectoring of a 3 motor EV would be way better than M active diff. But today does not exist. Today's EVs don't come close to offering the driver experience of a good IC sports car.
__________________
2017 BMW M2 German Spec
6MT, Driver's Package

"Redline a day keeps the mechanics away"
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2021, 08:24 AM   #194
bucketfoot
Captain
bucketfoot's Avatar
United_States
439
Rep
776
Posts

Drives: 2014 X1 28i xDrive
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Centennial, CO

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
He literally played the system in everyway to take Tesla to the top and ultimately the financials of his company would not have allowed any other to survive.
Not an Elon fan or foe, but I'm sorry, how do you fault him for doing what virtually every other company does.
__________________
This post sent using 100% recycled electrons.
Appreciate 1
David701484.00

      01-05-2021, 10:55 AM   #195
ASAP
Major General
ASAP's Avatar
No_Country
4043
Rep
5,184
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Heat Nation

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucketfoot View Post
Not an Elon fan or foe, but I'm sorry, how do you fault him for doing what virtually every other company does.
Have you seen my comments on the bailouts?

Cannot blame me for this one...
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2021, 11:14 AM   #196
dvq
Second Lieutenant
dvq's Avatar
United_States
271
Rep
272
Posts

Drives: 2018 M4 Competition
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Mountain View, CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivek. View Post
In CA Tesla offers their own insurance, I've heard its generally much less than the big insurance companies. May be worth at least getting a quote if you're in the market.

Porsches tend to have very low insurance rates for their class so it may not be the best comparison. I'd be shocked if it costs more than a Corvette, for example.
Regarding their insurance quotes, initially, it was massively uncompetitive. Now it's just moderately uncompetitive. Higher price, for less coverage, and some weird limitations on claims in conditions for permissive use ($15K limit on claims or injury, etc if you let someone use your car).
Appreciate 1
Vivek.782.50

      01-05-2021, 11:15 AM   #197
dreamingat30fps
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
1798
Rep
1,537
Posts

Drives: Model 3, Mustang GT, F350
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Have you seen my comments on the bailouts?

Cannot blame me for this one...
Were you not around in 2008? I'm assuming you will also never buy ANY American made vehicle due to your moral objections to "bailouts".
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2021, 11:22 AM   #198
ASAP
Major General
ASAP's Avatar
No_Country
4043
Rep
5,184
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Heat Nation

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
Were you not around in 2008? I'm assuming you will also never buy ANY American made vehicle due to your moral objections to "bailouts".
disregard the "moral objection"... you're still 100% correct lol
Appreciate 1
Vivek.782.50

Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:30 AM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST