BMW
X1 / X2
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos When will you buy a Tesla?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-03-2021, 03:56 PM   #155
chris719
Brigadier General
4320
Rep
4,594
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
BMW? Really? I'm not sure BMW has produced anything like that in the last decade.



You list 2 SUVs in your profile though... I'm assuming you have a vehicle like you described above in your garage somewhere.

In all fairness though. I will continue to own an ICE vehicle along with my BEV for as long as I can afford to do so and as long as there are ICE vehicles I like with a manual transmission. However I don't see any compelling reason to go back to ICE for my daily driver unless it's strictly a cost issue.
I think a lot of these people haven't driven a Tesla or even other EV and just like to dunk on them where they think they can.

The idea that a Model 3 Performance, for example, is less fun to drive than some huge SUV with an automatic transmission is highly questionable.

BMW will make EVs, most people here will eventually buy them, and 95% of them will not look back. Obviously, ICE cars will still have niches and play a role for a long time.
Appreciate 1
      01-03-2021, 04:41 PM   #156
mousefarmer
Second Lieutenant
66
Rep
244
Posts

Drives: 2007 328i, 2006 330i
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: N/A

iTrader: (0)

I think the used price of Tesla cars is so high because of the reliable nature of the powertrain. The prices for a used Model 3 are almost as much as new ones. BMW and Mercedes used cars drop off the cliff at 50K+ miles or so.

Perhaps having fewer things for people to touch like AC vent tabs and buttons means the car will appear much less beat up or damaged after many years of use. Maintenance history also isn't much of an issue with Tesla as it is with gasoline cars so that will likely keep the price range closer to the price of a new Tesla vs over 50% or more drop for used gas cars, especially German ones.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 12:28 AM   #157
M3_WC
Brigadier General
1030
Rep
3,628
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

I will be interested when range is 400+ miles at constant 70+mph freeway speeds. Less charge stops for road trips.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 07:15 AM   #158
David70
Colonel
United_States
1484
Rep
2,583
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4M Coupe - 13 Cadillac ATS
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
And what seems to be glossed over is the fact that these cars are not trouble free even with the minimum number of mechanical components. You skipped over the fact that the failure of the flash memory of the Model S' main computer will prevent the car from even running. And why this is so is due to the massive amount of data logging they do. Which leads into another aspect that has been kicked around here but many people really don't take seriously but give lip service to which is your own privacy. It's comical to see complaints about how the evil Feds are able to gain access to various aspects of your life yet these same people are willing to hand over that access to the likes of Google, Apple, and now Tesla. Rich did a video on the massive amounts of captured video the car by default records. Do you think Elan is going to let that precious data go untapped?

And none of the proponents of Tesla has even addressed the repair situation. Your choice of repair shops is extremely limited along with access to factory parts. Rich was able to gain access to various manuals from Tesla because Massachusetts passed a law requiring auto manufacturers to share that data.
So you added the flash drive of Model S main computer, anything else? I didn't gloss over anything, just saying what I know and asking what else. The number of serious issues seems to be small and this is from a new manufacturer rapidly increasing production. If bought an electric from major manufacturer or give it more time the reliability will likely be even higher, same with aftermarket parts and repair. Independent shops will cater to what the market wants, the amount of Tesla's that need repair, and their systems being significantly different will make this slow, same with replacement parts.

I just had my oil, transmission. engine air filter and differential fluid replaced on my car, sure wasn't cheap and wouldn't mind all of these items going away.

EDIT- the data logging is a complete different issue but I don't believe they have mastered it anywhere close to what everyone's phone is already doing.
__________________
2006 Z4M Coupe - Stromung exhaust, ZHP knob, stubby antenna, clutch delay delete

Last edited by David70; 01-04-2021 at 07:40 AM..
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 07:32 AM   #159
kyriian
Second Lieutenant
kyriian's Avatar
152
Rep
220
Posts

Drives: 06 Black Sapphire Z4MR
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Ontario

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 BMW X5  [0.00]
2011 Scion tC  [0.00]
2006 BMW Z4M  [0.00]
1) When prices become attainable,
2) When I don't ever have to worry finding a charge point
3) When I don't need to go back to approved facilities to fix the car
4) When they stop looking like a manju/mantou, especially in white
5) When the tesla fan bois stop their moral superiority in their everyday life and stop praising Elon like he is the second coming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=PLxPAwIeL0w
*obviously this is a joke*
6) When Canadian winters stop affecting their range
__________________
Revolution of our Times
Current: 06 BMW Z4MR, 14 BMW X5 35i, 11 Scion tC
Past: 11 C63, 15 Golf TSI, 11 370Z, 07 MX5, 02 Civic SiR, 96 Civic DX Coupe, 03 Miata, 03 Cooper S, 88 RX7 GXL
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 10:03 AM   #160
dgoldenz
Major
496
Rep
1,033
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3, JL Wrangler
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Las Vegas

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mousefarmer View Post
I think the used price of Tesla cars is so high because of the reliable nature of the powertrain. The prices for a used Model 3 are almost as much as new ones. BMW and Mercedes used cars drop off the cliff at 50K+ miles or so.

Perhaps having fewer things for people to touch like AC vent tabs and buttons means the car will appear much less beat up or damaged after many years of use. Maintenance history also isn't much of an issue with Tesla as it is with gasoline cars so that will likely keep the price range closer to the price of a new Tesla vs over 50% or more drop for used gas cars, especially German ones.
Check the price of a used model S though. What was $130k 5 years ago is now $40k.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 10:30 AM   #161
heavyD^2
Lieutenant Colonel
heavyD^2's Avatar
Canada
1997
Rep
1,912
Posts

Drives: X3M Competition
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada

iTrader: (0)

Likely for most of us it will be "never" as ICE is still the dominant selling vehicle on the plant and by the time many of us switch over there will be so many alternatives that Tesla will be like any other auto manufacturer vying for a piece of the pie. The model 3's going to look pretty dated in 2035 when BMW, Audi, MB, Honda, Toyota, etc are all trotting out shiney new EV's.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 01:23 PM   #162
The HACK
Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class
The HACK's Avatar
1757
Rep
5,344
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mousefarmer View Post
For me its when the price goes down and the weight of the vehicle goes down to be similar to gas cars. I have no brand loyalty for any brand.


A Model 3 weighs LESS than a BMW 340i.
__________________
Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19 monitor.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 01:36 PM   #163
mousefarmer
Second Lieutenant
66
Rep
244
Posts

Drives: 2007 328i, 2006 330i
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: N/A

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post


A Model 3 weighs LESS than a BMW 340i.
Wow, crazy guess it's just price then for me and fixing flaws.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 02:16 PM   #164
freakystyly
Captain
443
Rep
630
Posts

Drives: E90 330i 6MT, F22 240i 6MT
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Ontario

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2006 BMW 330i  [0.00]
To be fair, weights are up over the generations for 3 series...

Dual motor model 3 applications are ~1830kgs (4030lbs) which is a couple hundred pounds heavier than a loaded 340xi at around 3800lbs.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 02:20 PM   #165
stein_325i
Blocked from G80/G82 for having an opinion
stein_325i's Avatar
United_States
12272
Rep
5,821
Posts

Drives: BMW/Mercedes-Benz
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakystyly View Post
To be fair, weights are up over the generations for 3 series...

Dual motor model 3 applications are ~1830kgs (4030lbs) which is a couple hundred pounds heavier than a loaded 340xi at around 3800lbs.
BMW lists the 2021 M340i xDrive at 3979, so not much heavier.
__________________
Daily: 2019 Mercedes-Benz CLS 53 Weekend: 2008 BMW Z4 M Wife's: 2020 Mercedes-Benz GLC 300
Retired:1995 E36 325i 5MT / 2004 E46 330i 6MT / 2011 E90 335xi / 2017 G30 540i / 2017 982 Boxster S 6MT / 2019 F87 M2C 6MT
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 02:43 PM   #166
The HACK
Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class
The HACK's Avatar
1757
Rep
5,344
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mousefarmer View Post
Wow, crazy guess it's just price then for me and fixing flaws.
Depending on where you live. In California you can get one for less than $37K total, out the door. And the same $37K Model 3 is 400 lbs lighter than the BMW 340i.
__________________
Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19 monitor.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 02:45 PM   #167
David70
Colonel
United_States
1484
Rep
2,583
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4M Coupe - 13 Cadillac ATS
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH

iTrader: (1)

I am also surprised the Model 3's weight is as low as it is. Pretty close to the BMW 3 series but then the Model S (4900 lbs) weighs about 900 lbs. more than the Model 3? Seems like a real pig for the size of the vehicle.
__________________
2006 Z4M Coupe - Stromung exhaust, ZHP knob, stubby antenna, clutch delay delete
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 02:45 PM   #168
The HACK
Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class
The HACK's Avatar
1757
Rep
5,344
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
I will be interested when range is 400+ miles at constant 70+mph freeway speeds. Less charge stops for road trips.
Model S Plaid can do 520 miles on a single charge. At freeway speeds it loses up to 20% range. So the S Plaid can easily make 400+ miles at 70+ mph.

Granted it cost $136K.
__________________
Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19 monitor.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 02:47 PM   #169
David70
Colonel
United_States
1484
Rep
2,583
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4M Coupe - 13 Cadillac ATS
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by freakystyly View Post
To be fair, weights are up over the generations for 3 series...

Dual motor model 3 applications are ~1830kgs (4030lbs) which is a couple hundred pounds heavier than a loaded 340xi at around 3800lbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Depending on where you live. In California you can get one for less than $37K total, out the door. And the same $37K Model 3 is 400 lbs lighter than the BMW 340i.
One of these seems off.
__________________
2006 Z4M Coupe - Stromung exhaust, ZHP knob, stubby antenna, clutch delay delete
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 02:47 PM   #170
stein_325i
Blocked from G80/G82 for having an opinion
stein_325i's Avatar
United_States
12272
Rep
5,821
Posts

Drives: BMW/Mercedes-Benz
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
I will be interested when range is 400+ miles at constant 70+mph freeway speeds. Less charge stops for road trips.
Model S Plaid can do 520 miles on a single charge. At freeway speeds it loses up to 20% range. So the S Plaid can easily make 400+ miles at 70+ mph.

Granted it cost $136K.
And also is not in production yet.

I would love to see a Model S refresh. New interior, some styling updates, and a more engaging chassis. I would definitely get one.
__________________
Daily: 2019 Mercedes-Benz CLS 53 Weekend: 2008 BMW Z4 M Wife's: 2020 Mercedes-Benz GLC 300
Retired:1995 E36 325i 5MT / 2004 E46 330i 6MT / 2011 E90 335xi / 2017 G30 540i / 2017 982 Boxster S 6MT / 2019 F87 M2C 6MT
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 02:49 PM   #171
The HACK
Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class
The HACK's Avatar
1757
Rep
5,344
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
I am also surprised the Model 3's weight is as low as it is. Pretty close to the BMW 3 series but then the Model S (4900 lbs) weighs about 900 lbs. more than the Model 3? Seems like a real pig for the size of the vehicle.
The battery pack on the Model 3 is significantly larger than the Model 3. But so is the RANGE.

The BASE Model 3, without the 2 motors driving it and a significantly smaller battery pack, is no heavier than your average small ICE sedan at around 3,500 lbs, and significantly lighter than your average BMW. When you step up on battery size, that's when the weight increases dramatically. The AWD long range and performance models of the Model 3 variant weighs about 100 lbs heavier than the 340i (but accelerates to 60 about 1/2 second faster (the Performance model does, the Long Range model requires a $2,000 'upgrade' from Tesla to match the 340i).

But the range difference between the Dual Motor Long Range to the standard RWD base model is in excess of 100 miles. It's a huge difference if you ever plan on taking a extended drive of more than 5 hours for sure.
__________________
Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19 monitor.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 02:54 PM   #172
freakystyly
Captain
443
Rep
630
Posts

Drives: E90 330i 6MT, F22 240i 6MT
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Ontario

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2006 BMW 330i  [0.00]
The performance of the single motor also compares closer to a 330i and not a 340i.. because everyone cares about 0-60 and nothing more. I can't speak of handling or feel, I assume they both aren't amazing.
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 02:54 PM   #173
The HACK
Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class
The HACK's Avatar
1757
Rep
5,344
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
One of these seems off.
Do your own research.

A base RWD Model 3 cost $37,000. There's a $1,500 instant rebate from CA, plus a $2,000 clean vehicle rebate you can apply for, for a total of $3,500 off the price of the car, which amounts to just about cover the tax and license fees. So for just around $37,xxx you can buy a base RWD Model 3 that weighs somewhere around 3,500 lbs, which is almost 400 lbs lighter than a BMW M340i xDrive.

The dual motor iterations of the Model 3, bot in Long Range guise and Performance guise, has a significantly larger battery pack (more weight) and an additional motor driving the front wheels (more weight).

What exactly seems off?
__________________
Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19 monitor.
Appreciate 1
chris7194319.50

      01-04-2021, 03:00 PM   #174
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7000
Rep
19,298
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
Likely for most of us it will be "never" as ICE is still the dominant selling vehicle on the plant and by the time many of us switch over there will be so many alternatives that Tesla will be like any other auto manufacturer vying for a piece of the pie.
Hence why this thread is a mess.

The OP has been brainwashed into believing there is only one manufacturer building viable EVs. This, even as he declares his brand independence. That's the power of social media hype combined with failure to do homework.

There are two threads here:

"When will you buy an EV?"
"Would you ever buy a Tesla?"

The first one could be a productive discussion. The second has been rehashed 97 times on this forum alone is repost after repost after repost. I was going to attempt to fix the situation, but this hydra has run amok too long to be stopped so it is what it is.
Appreciate 4
stein_325i12271.50
David701484.00
heavyD^21997.00
P17627.50

      01-04-2021, 03:03 PM   #175
David70
Colonel
United_States
1484
Rep
2,583
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4M Coupe - 13 Cadillac ATS
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Depending on where you live. In California you can get one for less than $37K total, out the door. And the same $37K Model 3 is 400 lbs lighter than the BMW 340i.
The $66k BMW M340i in this article has an actual weight of 3827, far from a base model and I have never seen an actual weight that shows 3427 for a Model 3. I think your "400 lbs. lighter" is off.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-maintenance/
__________________
2006 Z4M Coupe - Stromung exhaust, ZHP knob, stubby antenna, clutch delay delete
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2021, 03:20 PM   #176
The HACK
Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class
The HACK's Avatar
1757
Rep
5,344
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by freakystyly View Post
The performance of the single motor also compares closer to a 330i and not a 340i.. because everyone cares about 0-60 and nothing more. I can't speak of handling or feel, I assume they both aren't amazing.
You need to go drive one.

Disclaimer: I've bought nothing but BMWs for the last 25 years. Going as far back as I can remember I have had nearly nothing but BMWs in my garage. At one point I even have a BMW gasoline car, a BMW diesel, and a BMW electric in my garage. I am about as BMW fan-boi as one can get.

Yet when my C7 Corvette Grand Sport blew an engine at Laguna Seca, and GM decided it's not worth their time to try and fix it and cut me a check for the car, what did I buy?

A Model 3 Dual Motor Long Range.

Not a BMW 3 or 4 series, not a BMW X3, nor any future BMW "I" offerings (I don't need a car, I still have 2 BMWs in the garage for 2 adult drivers). When I test drove a Tesla Dual Motor last October, it drove better, accelerate better, and handled better than ANY BMW I have driven except my Z4 M Coupe. And the Z4 M is hard to live with on a daily basis (although I will if I have to like I have in the past).

Unlike any of the newer BMWs, they handle well despite the weight, the Tesla handled well BECAUSE of the weight. All of it is down low underneath you. None of that 500+ lbs of motor siting high up. So much of the mass is concentrated down low, and there's so much mass improving traction, and so much torque easily available at all times without waiting for an engine to spool up, that it drove like nothing else I've ever driven.

Even compared to the C7 Grand Sport with its massive 6.1 liter V-8, you simply can't compare how quickly all the power and torque is available to you in an electric motor. The Corvette was FAST. Fastest car I've owned. Eye opening fast. But it felt SLOW by comparison. Even though the 0-60 in the Tesla is only marginally faster than the C7, the sensation it delivered is NEXT LEVEL. And the Corvette sits down low, with low ground clearance, and a pushrod V8 sitting as low as possible in the engine bay, and even then you can't compare having ALL the weight of the car sitting fully underneath you, not around your mid-section.

The biggest difference is, the Model 3 came with 235mm wide ALL SEASON tires. So they will give up the ghost long before the Z4 M Coupe in a corner, or the C7 Grand Sport (which came with 285mm front, 335mm rear MICHELIN PILOT CUP 2's). So the maximum speed one can carry in a corner is highly dependent on the tire the Tesla is using. But as for handling and feel? My Dual Motor Long Range will tackle any corner with aplomb and composure.

And since I still have a BMW that will do 600+ miles on a single fill-up (okay, the best I've done is 580 miles, but that's with multiple stints at 100mph on stretches) and can fill up virtually anywhere there's diesel sold, I don't really care one way or another that the Tesla can't be filled up in less than 20 minutes when it's ran dry. In 6 weeks it's only been "topped off" twice. And that's when I plug it in at night, and next morning it's magically filled up.

As a long, LONG time car guy, and an early adapter of electricity as a mode of transportation, but a LATE comer to Tesla, I will say this.

Don't buy a Tesla. Don't EVER buy a Tesla. Because if and when you do, you will see the world entirely differently, and you will never be able to buy a car like a normie anymore.

I walked away from this experience knowing I will never, ever buy a car differently. I test drove a car with zero sales pressure. The guy left a key with me with zero pressure to return it. Never discussed with me when I have to order, never bothered to ask me to put down a deposit. All he said was, "when you're ready to place an order, just go to Tesla.com. And if you have a referral code, make sure you enter it to get free 1,000 miles charging."

We never talked price. Never even whipped out a piece of paper with the "quadrant." No talks of "how much can you afford?" "What's your monthly payment budget?" "What does it take to put you in a Tesla today?" I literally never even talked to a sales person except to arrange for the test drive. And after I placed the order, every thing was handled through an online portal. On the day I picked up the car, it was "here's your key Mr HACK, there's some paperwork in the car. Once you sign it, pull up to the front of the dealership and return it to the attendant. Congratulations."

I was in and out of the "dealership" in less than 30 minutes, and that included time walking over to Starbucks for a cup of coffee.

In the first week I had the car, someone kicked up a piece of rock on the freeway and cracked my windshield. I arranged for service to replace the windshield using my phone's Tesla app, drop the car off the very next Monday, and had the car back on the same day. And again, talked to a "service advisor" for less than 10 minutes, he texted me a Uber voucher good for $200 so I can get around for the rest of the day. Done.

Compared to my last car purchase, which we spent over 2 days back and forth with the dealership haggling, car spent over 9 months at the dealership in the 18 months I owned it, and just the NIGHTMARE process of dealing with a third party that does not have anyone's best interest in mind? This ownership experience has completely changed my perception of how the automotive industry sucks in general and how the whole dealership model is just the worst.

So yeah.

DON'T EVER BUY A TESLA. Heed my words.
__________________
Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19 monitor.
Appreciate 2
chris7194319.50

Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:31 AM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST