Vtt crank hub slipped, turbos failed

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by Smee

i am a member of that group and i know the post your on about and even the person who said it even admits there is no evidence (thread/post etc) other than he saw it first hand. even adding that to list thats 5 failures out of hundreds of V1's.

please dont get me wrong i my self would be worried seeing post like this if i had a V1. i just think its harsh that people seem to give VTT a lot of stick.

as for releasing better version... why are we on Iphones 11 or Samsung S10... things change, your approach to solution will change with time. better techniques for manufacturing etc etc the overall idea of a spline is still the same its not like they have given up on their solution, just refined and made it better.

anyway Litchfield and MMR must be shitting it as their solution is a 1 piece hub not pinned / keyed / splined to the crank!!

There is another failure reported with V1 in this forum by gman_newyork (his friend's car but he provided screenshots of the text message exchanges and pictures that his friend sent to him). The car (F82) was pushing near 600whp and only had the V1 hub without the CBC. There are also pictures of the crank with no bites from hub whatsoever. Check posts #222, #227, #297, #309, and #315 in New Crank Hub Solution to Market.

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by Smee

i am a member of that group and i know the post your on about and even the person who said it even admits there is no evidence (thread/post etc) other than he saw it first hand. even adding that to list thats 5 failures out of hundreds of V1's.

please dont get me wrong i my self would be worried seeing post like this if i had a V1. i just think its harsh that people seem to give VTT a lot of stick.

as for releasing better version... why are we on Iphones 11 or Samsung S10... things change, your approach to solution will change with time. better techniques for manufacturing etc etc the overall idea of a spline is still the same its not like they have given up on their solution, just refined and made it better.

anyway Litchfield and MMR must be shitting it as their solution is a 1 piece hub not pinned / keyed / splined to the crank!!

I thought I was alone in the land of analytical/logical mindsets, but you're right on point on almost everything. A couple things to note:

1. From the rumor mill, the crank snout on the V1 test rig was supposedly from an N54. So yes, it would not be impossible for the V1 splines to break an N54 based rig.

2. Not a rumor, but this is the 2nd confirmed V1 unit that failed to leave any spline marks on an S55 crank snout. This means the V2 is a must if you have an S55.

I'm a big proponent of several BMW vendors, including VTT. I applaud VTT for continuing to develop products despite the constant hate they receive. However, unless this is a case of a few manufacturing defective units floating around, I believe there will be more S55 SCH reports pertaining to the V1 units as time goes by.

blackey I'll get back to your PM later today.

[Smee]

Originally Posted by cntzl

There is another failure reported with V1 in this forum by gman_newyork (his friend's car but he provided screenshots of the text message exchanges and pictures that his friend sent to him). The car (F82) was pushing near 600whp and only had the V1 hub without the CBC. There are also pictures of the crank with no bites from hub whatsoever. .

agh i hadnt put post #222 together with the rest.. which is odd now looking back at it how i missed it lol

Originally Posted by nars3000

I thought I was alone in the land of analytical/logical mindsets, but you're right on point on almost everything. A couple things to note:

1. From the rumor mill, the crank snout on the V1 test rig was supposedly from an N54. So yes, it would not be impossible for the V1 splines to break an N54 based rig.

2. Not a rumor, but this is the 2nd confirmed V1 unit that failed to leave any spline marks on an S55 crank snout. This means the V2 is a must if you have an S55.

I'm a big proponent of several BMW vendors, including VTT. I applaud VTT for continuing to develop products despite the constant hate they receive. However, unless this is a case of a few manufacturing defective units floating around, I believe there will be more S55 SCH reports pertaining to the V1 units as time goes by.

blackey I'll get back to your PM later today.

Cheers

is your number 2 the same one as cntzl is referring to?

[behindthen0thing]

at the very worst the V1 is most likely comparable to the stock hub,
At best it's biting in. Hopefully most of them have made the grooves.

[theweebabySeamus]

Originally Posted by nars3000

I thought I was alone in the land of analytical/logical mindsets, but you're right on point on almost everything. A couple things to note:

1. From the rumor mill, the crank snout on the V1 test rig was supposedly from an N54. So yes, it would not be impossible for the V1 splines to break an N54 based rig.

2. Not a rumor, but this is the 2nd confirmed V1 unit that failed to leave any spline marks on an S55 crank snout. This means the V2 is a must if you have an S55.

I'm a big proponent of several BMW vendors, including VTT. I applaud VTT for continuing to develop products despite the constant hate they receive. However, unless this is a case of a few manufacturing defective units floating around, I believe there will be more S55 SCH reports pertaining to the V1 units as time goes by.

blackey I'll get back to your PM later today.

Yeah the V2 is a much better design imo. When I looked at the V1 I didn't think the same and wouldn't have run it but I would definitely run the V2. Why people can't look past the old design and be comfortable with the new one is beyond me.

[aBMWfan]

Originally Posted by theweebabySeamus

Yeah the V2 is a much better design imo. When I looked at the V1 I didn't think the same and wouldn't have run it but I would definitely run the V2. Why people can't look past the old design and be comfortable with the new one is beyond me.

Because it says a lot about quality if they let the v1 hit the market in the first place, test products before selling, confirm it puts grooves into the crank not let customers figure out it doesn’t these are very expensive engines we are talking about IMO

[bracer]

I've decided to go with the Max PSI hub through SSR. I suspect the V2 will not spin, but not sure on the tooth wear, and decided to just not take a chance. It also is a better design if I have to pull the hub and rebuild the motor as it hasn't deformed the crank such that only the V2 can be used moving forward.

FYI here is the tooth wear of the V1 hub. It's a different chamfer / tooth profile than the stock one so hard to know if the wear is the different profile or a hardness issue. Chris thinks it's the hardness but until someone with some significant mileage removes a V2 and inspects the teeth it will be hard to know. So far EAS hasn't removed a V2 once installed. This is with 4000 miles, and only 2 sessions on the track btw.

[MR RIZK]

Those teeth look munched.

[behindthen0thing]

That's freaking horrible

[bracer]

The other sprocket is BMW factory (VTT used the factory oil pump sprocket). It looked perfect, as did my stock unit when I pulled it with 32K miles. My worry is the V1 and V2 use the same profile, so IF it's a profile issue V2 will be effected as well, although since it's a harder material it could take much longer. Who knows if that puts more wear on the chain instead as it might become the wear item at that point. A lot of questions that will not be answered until people have some significant mileage on the V2 and then inspect it.

[MR RIZK]

Thanks blackey I edited my post as I checked to see that it was the oem oil sprocket. Wasnt quick enough

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Originally Posted by blackey

I've decided to go with the Max PSI hub through SSR.

Understood. Good luck!

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by Smee

Cheers

is your number 2 the same one as cntzl is referring to?

That is correct.

[ASRman]

Originally Posted by blackey

I've decided to go with the Max PSI hub through SSR. I suspect the V2 will not spin, but not sure on the tooth wear, and decided to just not take a chance. It also is a better design if I have to pull the hub and rebuild the motor as it hasn't deformed the crank such that only the V2 can be used moving forward.

FYI here is the tooth wear of the V1 hub. It's a different chamfer / tooth profile than the stock one so hard to know if the wear is the different profile or a hardness issue. Chris thinks it's the hardness but until someone with some significant mileage removes a V2 and inspects the teeth it will be hard to know. So far EAS hasn't removed a V2 once installed. This is with 4000 miles, and only 2 sessions on the track btw.

After seeing the state of those teeth I am not surprised you opted for Maximum PSI

[SSR Performance]

Originally Posted by blackey

I've decided to go with the Max PSI hub through SSR. I suspect the V2 will not spin, but not sure on the tooth wear, and decided to just not take a chance. It also is a better design if I have to pull the hub and rebuild the motor as it hasn't deformed the crank such that only the V2 can be used moving forward.

Hey brotha!

Glad we were able to get you hooked up with the Maximum PSI Keyed crank hub kit!

Let us know if you need any other support at all. Always happy to help!

Shah @ SSR Performance

[bracer]

Hi Shah, thanks so much for getting me one so quick. Super appreciated!

[SSR Performance]

Originally Posted by blackey

Hi Shah, thanks so much for getting me one so quick. Super appreciated!

No problem at all man. Least I could do to help you get back up and on the road

Shah @ SSR Performance

[aBMWfan]

Originally Posted by SSR Performance

No problem at all man. Least I could do to help you get back up and on the road

Shah @ SSR Performance

+1 to Shah and SSR

[SSR Performance]

Originally Posted by aBMWfan

+1 to Shah and SSR

My brotha! Thank you so much!! That means a lot to me Hope you had a great new year!

Shah @ SSR Performance

[aBMWfan]

Originally Posted by SSR Performance

My brotha! Thank you so much!! That means a lot to me Hope you had a great new year!

Shah @ SSR Performance

Yes it was great, hope your’s was great too

[Continental02]

Originally Posted by blackey

We've torn it down as far as I really want to even removing one of the rod bearings and the rod bearing looked good. We inspected everywhere we can and I do not see a source for the metal. Only other thing we uncovered was the teeth on the V1 hub were also very warn especially for 4000 miles. It could be a hardness issue or we've also noticed the tooth chamfer is very different than stock, so hard to tell what caused the wear. It's weird that the wear is only on one side of the teeth, so some metal came from there but not as much as we're seeing.

Otherwise no clue. I'm basically at the spot of either:

1) Pull the engine and rebuilt it with forged internals. All in with install / etc.., I'm looking at 15-20K. I've got 3 quotes to do this. This saves me from some sort of catastrophic failure, but puts the car down for 2 months.

2) Button everything back up with a new crankhub and monitor. Basically we'd flush the system 2 complete times with oil and then monitor the filter to see what we get. If it continues to drop particulate then rebuild it.

I took the opportunity to shop other cars, and for what I need and how I've set up the car, I can't see another car I'd rather have so I'll be keeping this one for at least 3-4 years more. (Work requires a 4 door car). So that's where I'm at. I'm leaning towards #2. One track event should tell the story I think. I'll also do a leak down test, but I can't do that until we have a crankhub installed. I have a few days to decide. Any thoughts?

Third option.

Buy a new built engine to avoid some downtime and use that one in your car.

Put together the old engine, sell it, recoup some money, and let someone else assume the risk.

There's unaccounted metal. The metal came from somewhere... It's nice to save money, but do you think you won't have this issue again if you button it up and pray for the best? I wouldn't on a modded track car, and even if I did, the added worry would not be worth it.

I would factor in the costs of what a missed track event would cost you.

Hotels + Travel + Equipment + Track Fees + Ruined Weekend = Not worth it to hope for the best.

[DanMpower]

Originally Posted by blackey

I've decided to go with the Max PSI hub through SSR. I suspect the V2 will not spin, but not sure on the tooth wear, and decided to just not take a chance. It also is a better design if I have to pull the hub and rebuild the motor as it hasn't deformed the crank such that only the V2 can be used moving forward.

FYI here is the tooth wear of the V1 hub. It's a different chamfer / tooth profile than the stock one so hard to know if the wear is the different profile or a hardness issue. Chris thinks it's the hardness but until someone with some significant mileage removes a V2 and inspects the teeth it will be hard to know. So far EAS hasn't removed a V2 once installed. This is with 4000 miles, and only 2 sessions on the track btw.

Oh...my..lawd. Looks like another 10k miles and the teeth on that VTT crank hub would probably shear off.

I suspect similar issues with the Insane crank hub as well long term with its softer metal and non-tapered teeth. I don't understand why people would cheap out on a couple of hundred bucks when they're spending thousands on labor to get these in.

Just spend the extra money people, get the best and find a great installer. Then you can sleep well at night.

MaxPSI crank hub and SSR Performance FTW!