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      06-24-2022, 12:26 AM   #67
chris719
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I feel like people are forgetting that most of these Miatas you see on track are modified, some heavily. Obviously it's a great track car because lower consumable wear rate and cost.
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      06-24-2022, 01:41 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
Ya guys, I admittedly dunno much about all those muscle cars in general. I just don't see the point having a crazily heavy car and then it must be compensated by an overzealous engine just to make it handle as good as a MX-5. Then again, I've never cared much for straight-line speed.
easier and cheaper to add power than make a car lighter. more power, need more bracing, cooling, bigger engine means more fluids, more tire, more brakes, bigger wheels, beefier suspension, longer wheelbase to make it stable.

the bright side for manufacturers is you can do all this to a popular chassis that will sell to masses like a camaro or mustang. so you can offset the cost of a zl1 or gt500 by selling a bunch of base 4 cylinder convertibles. porsche does this with 911s, bmw does it with the 3 series.

you can't really sell alot of cars the size of a miata to offset the cost of a high performance model. most people cannot afford to have a pure toy with zero practicality. if you want z1l lap times with something the size of a miata you will be spending 2-3x more money.
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      06-24-2022, 03:23 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
You are still doing it. A 1LE is not a straight-line car. A Miata is not either. Do you think a C8 Stingray is?
Ya, it's still crazy heavy. I lump them all in the same broad category, so ya, the latest Corvette. For sure I respect all their performance like the Camaro, etc, but it's against my philosophy, that's all.


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Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
easier and cheaper to add power than make a car lighter. more power, need more bracing, cooling, bigger engine means more fluids, more tire, more brakes, bigger wheels, beefier suspension, longer wheelbase to make it stable.

the bright side for manufacturers is you can do all this to a popular chassis that will sell to masses like a camaro or mustang. so you can offset the cost of a zl1 or gt500 by selling a bunch of base 4 cylinder convertibles. porsche does this with 911s, bmw does it with the 3 series.

you can't really sell alot of cars the size of a miata to offset the cost of a high performance model. most people cannot afford to have a pure toy with zero practicality. if you want z1l lap times with something the size of a miata you will be spending 2-3x more money.
Yep, you touch upon a good pt and I think that Jason Comissara (sp??) dude made a recent video about it, that's because few can 'afford'(rationalize) a pure 'toy' and want jack of all trades and practicality thrown it. That's why Porsche is really a SUV company in my eyes.
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      06-24-2022, 06:52 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
few can 'afford'(rationalize) a pure 'toy' and want jack of all trades and practicality thrown it. That's why Porsche is really a SUV company in my eyes.
F80 is the master of all trades. We can close this tread now.
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      06-24-2022, 07:29 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
Ya guys, I admittedly dunno much about all those muscle cars in general. I just don't see the point having a crazily heavy car and then it must be compensated by an overzealous engine just to make it handle as good as a MX-5. Then again, I've never cared much for straight-line speed.
You're not listening, like at all. The 1LE is properly sorted, runs rings around damn near anything not double the price.
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      06-24-2022, 07:53 AM   #72
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You're not listening, like at all. The 1LE is properly sorted, runs rings around damn near anything not double the price.
Naw man, you're not understanding me, I prefer lightweight and small cars, that's my *own* personal preference. I couldn't care less about cars that go the Bentley/Bugatti route, or even as you say the 1LE, it's still a heavy car to me.
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      06-24-2022, 08:55 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
Naw man, you're not understanding me, I prefer lightweight and small cars, that's my *own* personal preference. I couldn't care less about cars that go the Bentley/Bugatti route, or even as you say the 1LE, it's still a heavy car to me.
That wasn't the discussion though. The discussion was lap times and not just being a straight line demon. The fact you roll a Challenger or Bentley in with a 1LE tells me you are not quite grasping what the 1LE can do around corners.

Light weight and chuckable is great, that's why in the end I went 997 rather than Mustang, but the idea a stock Miata (similar driving skills) can hang with a 1LE is fantasy, long straight or not.
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      06-24-2022, 09:05 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
That wasn't the discussion though. The discussion was lap times and not just being a straight line demon. The fact you roll a Challenger or Bentley in with a 1LE tells me you are not quite grasping what the 1LE can do around corners.

Light weight and chuckable is great, that's why in the end I went 997 rather than Mustang, but the idea a stock Miata (similar driving skills) can hang with a 1LE is fantasy, long straight or not.
Thank for brining the discussion back to the point

What happened to the guy who posted that on a road course the Miata wins
Maybe after I posted some actual lap times he is reconsidering his life choices
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      06-24-2022, 11:24 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
Naw man, you're not understanding me, I prefer lightweight and small cars, that's my *own* personal preference. I couldn't care less about cars that go the Bentley/Bugatti route, or even as you say the 1LE, it's still a heavy car to me.
But that's not where you started. You started referring to all of these cars as "straight line" or "muscle cars". They are not. C8 is not, along with many of the ones you were discussing. Yes, we get that you like a lightweight sports car, that's great, but you don't seem to understand that there are more cars than miatas that are not intended for straight-line speed.
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      06-24-2022, 04:11 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
That wasn't the discussion though. The discussion was lap times and not just being a straight line demon. The fact you roll a Challenger or Bentley in with a 1LE tells me you are not quite grasping what the 1LE can do around corners.

Light weight and chuckable is great, that's why in the end I went 997 rather than Mustang, but the idea a stock Miata (similar driving skills) can hang with a 1LE is fantasy, long straight or not.
I never said that.


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Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
But that's not where you started. You started referring to all of these cars as "straight line" or "muscle cars". They are not. C8 is not, along with many of the ones you were discussing. Yes, we get that you like a lightweight sports car, that's great, but you don't seem to understand that there are more cars than miatas that are not intended for straight-line speed.
There's some generalization but my pt is that yes for sure much heavier cars can be made into good track weapons but I don't see the pt starting from a much heavier foundation. For sure the cars mentioned fall into that category but just imagine if they went on a big diet. Wish it was industry std to list on pwr-to-wt because just pumping out huge HP numbers don't tell the whole story.

Anyway, I don't wanna derail this thread anymore than it has, suffice to say we're not talking about the same thing.
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      06-24-2022, 08:42 PM   #77
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If you go on a big diet, there's no room for a big engine........
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      06-24-2022, 09:50 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
If you go on a big diet, there's no room for a big engine........
No need you mean. That's why ppl think it's normal to race SUVs on tracks now. Kinda absurd.
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      06-25-2022, 10:33 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
No need you mean. That's why ppl think it's normal to race SUVs on tracks now. Kinda absurd.
Have you ever gone to a OLOA event?

Years ago, I talked to the Dodge suspension engineers with their SRT-8 Grand Cherokee. They emptied out everything behind the front seats, changed the springs and put massive 325 Pirelli's.

That thing lapped Hallett at speeds you wouldn't believe. It was truly incredible what those guys did.

Kind of like the Honda team that through a ridiculous turbo V6 in a minivan to compete .
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      06-25-2022, 11:05 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
Have you ever gone to a OLOA event?

Years ago, I talked to the Dodge suspension engineers with their SRT-8 Grand Cherokee. They emptied out everything behind the front seats, changed the springs and put massive 325 Pirelli's.

That thing lapped Hallett at speeds you wouldn't believe. It was truly incredible what those guys did.

Kind of like the Honda team that through a ridiculous turbo V6 in a minivan to compete .
No idea what that is but sounds impressive. Thing is, imagine if they started w a better platform?
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      06-25-2022, 12:32 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
Have you ever gone to a OLOA event?

Years ago, I talked to the Dodge suspension engineers with their SRT-8 Grand Cherokee. They emptied out everything behind the front seats, changed the springs and put massive 325 Pirelli's.

That thing lapped Hallett at speeds you wouldn't believe. It was truly incredible what those guys did.

Kind of like the Honda team that through a ridiculous turbo V6 in a minivan to compete .
We had one of those doing autocross for a while, a few races, sounded good, but it broke a wheel hub doing it. The guy bought a Macan GTS to replace it and hasn't looked back. The Macan seems a lot better suited to the thrashing of racing and is impressively fast everywhere. The Dodge was more along the lines of "all show", not intended for the rigors of putting it through it's paces.
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Last edited by RM7; 06-26-2022 at 12:46 AM..
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      06-25-2022, 11:40 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
No idea what that is but sounds impressive. Thing is, imagine if they started w a better platform?
That's why they have different classes.

Look up One Lap of America. Serious machines compete. It's on my bucket list to do.
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