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      09-24-2020, 03:32 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcelir8bmw View Post
Why wouldn't the OBDII boost specs show 22.8 MAX, while the TDI unit pushes more above it?
Because OBD-II is simply a request to the engine controller to report the boost it is measuring. Normally this number is directly measured by the controller from the manifold sensor.

However, the manifold sensor is no longer connected to the engine controller. It's connected to your new TDI unit, which is reading it, and remapping it to its own algorithm. The TDI then emulates the sensor and provides this completely different remapped value to the engine controller.

How the TDI manipulates these values is their proprietary domain. And, it is very unlikely to bet so simple as to be 22.8 minus X.
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      09-24-2020, 03:34 PM   #46
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So the question is why doesn't TDI tell ECU 22.8 max value all the time?
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      09-24-2020, 04:18 PM   #47
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Ordered a Dragy.

Continued Saturday Testing.
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      09-24-2020, 05:51 PM   #48
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Time to tap a boost gauge! I do love/miss them. This is the main reason why I got the JB4.. so I can log/edit it through the software. I knew that OBDII logging won't be accurate with any "piggyback". I do want to hear about the Dragy for sure.
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      09-24-2020, 05:53 PM   #49
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Yes. Looking for appropriate TAP adapter.
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      09-24-2020, 07:14 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcelir8bmw View Post
So the question is why doesn't TDI tell ECU 22.8 max value all the time?
In a very simplified answer, tuners have varying methodologies and safety margins and sometimes their desired modified tuning calibrations are not always inline for with the existing calibrations of when peak boost is being produced.
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      09-24-2020, 08:01 PM   #51
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***************************************
UPDATE! UPDATE! UPDATE! UPDATE! UPDATE!
***************************************

Just sent an Email to TDI - to sum it all up. Spoiler alert, it's not bad, but improvement desired....


Ward,

Good evening/good morning.

Based on our conversation, I had totally removed the BMS Pedal Tuner. And that, in itself, made a significant difference in how the car felt and drove. It was no more herky-jerky feeling in both stock and TDI modes. Maybe it was a false sense of power that it was giving. That pretty much is what it is supposed to do I guess. And I installed the Pedal Tuner to help with a shifting issue in this vehicle that is widespread and known. This evening, I had to re-train my brain of how this vehicle really felt. I have had the BMS tuner on the car weeks after I bought it, and that's more than 14 months ago.

With that being said, I did a lot of driving this evening. Both on and off the highway. About 25 miles worth. I pretty much performed a science experiment for which every scenario I compared the stock vehicle maps compared to the TDI tuning box turned on, mode 7.

I did not look at any OBDII readings, nor any BMW graphical performance meters. I put the navigation display on my car and just drove - not to be visually distracted or trick the mind visually with numbers versus feeling.

For sure, I can easily say that the exhaust burbles and crackles louder. Kinda cool. I can also say that the TDI unit, when on, doesn't appear to hinder, or perform less than stock. So that's a plus. I did also notice how the mapping and RPMs shifted in a pretty smooth/unique/stepped down manner by 500RPM increments with the TDI box turned on, compared to stock, definitely noticed that. Very reproducible.

In all conditions, in all scenarios, in all speeds and gears, etc. the TDI Tuning box feels like a very 'minor' improvement over stock. Something 'is there' for sure. However, I was expecting more 'oomph', i.e. more of a noticeable difference like all the YouTube videos of people reviewing their product across all the cars that you've installed the systems into.

I also ordered a Dragy unit that will come on Saturday to quite literally try to 'measure' any improvement.

With all of this information, I am truly curious if there is a way, as you mentioned, or I'll say, to bump up the performance of a new Map, that I can download. I know I asked you how much PSI you are adding, and you weren't able to give me an answer. I'm just looking for more noticeable differences. Stock max PSI is around 22.4-22.8 in all my prior measurements. I'm curious if what is mapped gives me 25PSI. Usually for every 1PSI is about 10-15 HP/TQ difference. I'm not 'feeling' that compared to all my other endeavors. I mean look at your advertisement of performance increase, it should be pretty noticeable - and it's not. Slight, yes potentially, but not 'OMG' which it should be.

I hope this all makes sense to you. If you can get me a map, that is still safe, that would be much appreciated. On Saturday, I'll see what I can find out with the Dragy unit.

For now, I'm not removing the system from the vehicle, and leaving it on mode 7.

Thanks for your help!
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      09-24-2020, 09:15 PM   #52
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@xcelir8bmw quick question...

What brand and octane rating do you run in your X2, and have you changed it lately?

Reason I ask is the TDI seems to want RON 97, which is roughly US AKI 93. If the engine isn't adapted to this, it will pull timing and alter the fuel map to avoid detonation. This can really mess up the tuned behavior.

I'm surprised disabling the pedal mapper made such a big difference. The TDI box and pedal mapper really don't interact at all, electronically or operationally. But I guess a rapid, unexpected throttle surge can cause strange things as maps shift from low-load to high-load quickly.
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      09-24-2020, 09:27 PM   #53
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You know what, Ward did mention something about tuning to 102 in the UK. Where I live it is like 91 or 92 max. Use to be 93 but that changed a year or so ago. Hmm, need to check out Shell if they have super 93 again. Just sent a follow up Email to him on this. Thanks for the reminder.
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      09-24-2020, 09:27 PM   #54
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I wanted to say I truly appreciate all of you whom have shared experiences with these products over various threads. From my POV, it seems the tuning boxes simply aren't the best solution for this engine.

Since 2004, I've had a slew of vehicles that have been flash tuned; 3 VW GTI's (MK'S IV, V & VI) and a MKVI bodied Golf R, all by APR, trouble free. My 15 X1 35i had a Dinan tune...same deal, flawless. I go in, they tune it, I'm on my way, enjoying the car. This plug-n-play thing just seems relentlessly OKAY at best, and a moderate to major PITA at worst. I'm sure dude from BMS is a lovely person, but I don't want to be emailing him every 32 seconds with logs et al...I don't have the spare time for that. I was gonna try to help out by purchasing RaceChip but subsequent research leads me to believe that they have some challenges with customer service and again...I ain't got all day.

Don't get me wrong, I'm out here pulling for you guys to get these things working/be satisfied with your purchases, however I feel like I'm going to wait and see what happens on the ECU tune side of things.
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      09-24-2020, 09:38 PM   #55
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Dinan said they are working on going back to flash tuning, like in a year or two.

I gotta say, TDI has been a truly wonderful experience. The entire process and professionalism is spot on. I talked to Ward at length this morning and was very appreciative.

Seeing that our car is not mainstream doesn't surprise me on process. Sometimes we just have to pioneer it. Not my first time.

The Dinan just didn't work.

The TDI when going backwards from Map 7 down to 1 does truly work.

Everything about the product and process is excellent.

A lot of this could be me as well and only scientific proof is going to prove it.

At this point I am not worried. It will all work out.
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      09-24-2020, 09:48 PM   #56
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i agree with xcelir8bmw in that the product, whether it be the tdi box or the bms box, provides for an experience that's better than stock. whether that's slight as in xcelir8bmw's case or rather transformative as in my case, i feel like you can run the bms unit at least anyway without having to log anything.

i've just plugged the thing in and driven the car and it's far better than oem settings.
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      09-24-2020, 09:52 PM   #57
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BMW is reportedly working against the reprogram-tuning approach, as are many manufacturers, by locking down more and more parts of the control units. With gasoline engines a dying breed (sob) it seems a strange choice, personally. These add-on boxes may be the only choice for some.

Regarding fuel, in my area (Boston/New England), 93 AKI is readily available at Exxon/Mobil stations, and runs well in my cars. Sunoco has some higher-rated formulas, but I've had mixed results with it. It seems to attain this with additives, inconsistently. I just stick with Mobil.
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      09-24-2020, 09:53 PM   #58
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The other thing I'm thinking about is does my butt Dino really kind of want E85 like power because that's what I'm used to versus an smaller increase? As well as I am definitely going to look at different gas. That wouldn't be the first time. When I had my STI I would always use shell 93 until I went to E 85 and then I went to a different gas station and I've been going to the same type of gas station but it's like 91 or 92 so duh that could be part of it.
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      09-24-2020, 09:54 PM   #59
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I'd be interested in your experience if you try E85. Is the BMW rated for it?
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      09-24-2020, 09:56 PM   #60
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No I'm not doing E 85 on this vehicle I was just trying to compare the difference between running 93 and going to E 85 on a car it's a pretty substantial difference and if you cut that in half maybe that's kind of what I'm really feeling.
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      09-24-2020, 09:58 PM   #61
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Oh wait didn't I see somewhere on the boards here that there was a way to measure what fuel value we had in the tank that would be very good for me to know.

On my STI via Cobb i was able to.
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      09-24-2020, 09:59 PM   #62
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Yes with the new DME locking and reverting tunes, things like BM3 just have to stay ahead of the curve. People are talking about their cars going in for service and having software updates locking out the ability to flash tune. Others are being flagged for modifying tunes.. at least piggybacks are exactly that, they modify the signals. I do agree a full flash if done correct and safe is best, but it's also getting harder and harder.

I too always use the same few gas stations that have never given me issues with the premium gas. I was told that the "top tier" names all use the same stuff. I simply just think our cars are maxing out the turbo, so pushing in my case 27.5psi is all that I can. If TDI makes driveability much better that is very interesting. Did you try "stock setting" on the pedal tuner before you removed it? When testing my jb4 I didn't disconnect it, rather turned it down to "white" I think is stock? Today after playing with map 2 there is definite improvement with the jb4... but ultimately I'm back to custom map6 and going to work on more maps. Sorry to get a little off track between this thread and the jb4 thread..
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      09-24-2020, 10:02 PM   #63
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My pedal tuner was Orange plus two times Red. It was up there.

I said F it and just removed it for now.
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      09-24-2020, 10:16 PM   #64
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If you can get e85 I would highly recommend chucking 3 gallons or so in. I was very happy with it stock.

Edit: with 91 you can go farther, there are calculators online.
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      09-24-2020, 10:18 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billnchristy View Post
If you can get e85 I would highly recommend chucking 3 gallons or so in. I was very happy with it stock.

Edit: with 91 you can go farther, there are calculators online.
Didn't you measure it and how?
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      09-25-2020, 07:05 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcelir8bmw View Post
Dinan said they are working on going back to flash tuning, like in a year or two.

I gotta say, TDI has been a truly wonderful experience. The entire process and professionalism is spot on. I talked to Ward at length this morning and was very appreciative.

Seeing that our car is not mainstream doesn't surprise me on process. Sometimes we just have to pioneer it. Not my first time.

The Dinan just didn't work.

The TDI when going backwards from Map 7 down to 1 does truly work.

Everything about the product and process is excellent.

A lot of this could be me as well and only scientific proof is going to prove it.

At this point I am not worried. It will all work out.


I knew Dinan was working on a flash tune, but a year+ is ridiculous. MINI JCW/GP people are already chomping at the bit for a solution, as are we. I thought they'd be first out the gate, given the relationship in the past.

Definitely looking forward to your updates!
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