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      10-26-2020, 03:45 PM   #45
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To frame things. I'm in the high risk group with multiple co-morbidities. I am cautious but I'm not locking myself up in a cave either. I've done some social things here and there and follow the local rules. I recently went to an outdoor Latin dancing event. I was astonished with the brazen don't give an F' about the rules attitude of many people that attended. The DJ made an announcement to tell everyone to mask up as there was already a complaint filed by someone concerning mask wearing with the previous event at the same location. The DJ was polite and explained that the organizers can be fined along with any future events being shut down permanently. The idiots that were not masked up ignored him. The DJ had to make a second more terse announcement a bit later to get the offenders to mask up. When these people arrived, I can tell they had no intentions of following the rules.

The thing that makes me just shake my head is that the dance community is large but small at the same time. Many people at least know others in passing at a minimum. The blatant cavalier attitude of these individuals show that they didn't care if the organizers would get fined. Organizers that they know personally.

A few days ago, news of outbreaks of people testing positive started to circulate that attended specific events. This triggered a mass reaction of various event organizers that had events already planned to shut down. One of the outbreaks might have been caused by some idiots sharing a hookah and the establishment providing this in an indoor enclosed space. I've seen a video of one of the venue's regular club night over this past weekend where people were packed in there, a large number of people unmasked, and said hookah being used. All in an enclosed indoor facility.

It just amazes me how stupid people can be. It's not that hard to follow the current rules as things have been relaxed. Yet these fools just want to push things and ruin it for everyone else.
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      10-26-2020, 04:43 PM   #46
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The thing with masks is that both CDC said you don't need them and even Fauchi himself said that masks don't work the way people use them. It's also a fact that they don't stop the virus from entering your body. So why not wear N95 masks that do protect you?

Alot people forget that mask are not even required if you have a face shield too
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      10-26-2020, 04:51 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by IndyRed128i View Post
Moderator: A reminder that this is for non-political discussions only. You may continue to discuss the economic, societal, and personal aspects of the subject but this is not a springboard for political discussion and politically charged posts will be removed.



Being in Texas, bars and restaurants are more of less opened back up, but I just went through San Francisco last week, and literally most of the wine bars, vineyards, exc were all closed, and social distancing was in full enforcement.

This is quite the opposite of Texas, where its 90% back to normal.

Those of you from California, are you ready to move to Texas of Florida!??

Texas has the largest number of covid cases. Just sayin... As JMG said, we have covid restrictions here in socal, not a lock down. Lessened capacity at restaurants, etc., masks are required for anything indoors, but other than Disneyland trying to work out a solution to open, we're mostly ok.
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      10-26-2020, 05:16 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Kolyan2k View Post
The thing with masks is that both CDC said you don't need them and even Fauchi himself said that masks don't work the way people use them. It's also a fact that they don't stop the virus from entering your body. So why not wear N95 masks that do protect you?

Alot people forget that mask are not even required if you have a face shield too
My posts on the now defunct Political sub forum have repeatedly said people are not wearing masks properly nor are officials defining what a proper mask is. But the point of my post is these same officials have set rules and associated fines. Regardless of if you agree with them or not, you should follow them when attending an event or establishment. Because many times it's not your behind that is going to get in trouble. It's the people running the establishment or the event. If you don't want to comply with the rules, don't go. It's that simple.
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      10-26-2020, 05:41 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Ya'll nuts down there, just let it run rampant and half arsed your lock down. My relatives back home in OZ are laughing, 1 case of community spread amongst 26 million people yesterday and life is returning to normal because they did the hard yards early.

Most of you are also playing down the risks, this is a nasty virus as even asymptomatic people are showing heart and lung damage that may come get them later in life.
The virus may be nasty, but so are other viruses and so are diseases that are missed and untreated because you’re locking down.

And come back with more evidence of lung damage and heart damage from normal, healthy, asymptomatic people. That’s a load of shit and you know it. Post the data, not an article or two from CNN or Vox with incomplete information, completely designed to fear monger and trigger the reader. Franky, it hasn’t even been long enough to determine “long term damage” caused from this.

I’ll raise you the long term damage of not getting your cancer treatments or regular health checkups bc you’re scared to leave your house or ordered not to do so.

Last edited by BayMoWe335; 10-26-2020 at 05:52 PM..
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      10-26-2020, 05:49 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C View Post
Texas has the largest number of covid cases. Just sayin... As JMG said, we have covid restrictions here in socal, not a lock down. Lessened capacity at restaurants, etc., masks are required for anything indoors, but other than Disneyland trying to work out a solution to open, we're mostly ok.
I’m sorry, but you guys don’t even have power over there and no one can afford a house. Your state is also burning down and people are out of work bc Disneyland can’t open among others.

California and Texas have nearly identical cases and reported deaths. Sure, California has a higher population, but there are many factors. California isn’t doing “great” or anything relative to Texas relating to Covid. California is doing worse on life metrics, like supplying power, controlling crazies, reasonable cost of living, and cultivating a job market.
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      10-26-2020, 06:00 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by BayMoWe335 View Post
I’m sorry, but you guys don’t even have power over there and no one can afford a house. Your state is also burning down and people are out of work bc Disneyland can’t open among others.

California and Texas have nearly identical cases and reported deaths. Sure, California has a higher population, but there are many factors. California isn’t doing “great” or anything relative to Texas relating to Covid. California is doing worse on life metrics, like supplying power, controlling crazies, reasonable cost of living, and cultivating a job market.
I don't have power? I can't afford my house? Both wrong. The place is burning down? lol So much hyperbole. Lots of people like to bash California. Like other places, it ain't for everyone but let's not resort to partisan hyperbole. California is not doing great on Covid I agree but neither is Texas. But the OP's position was everything is great over here in Texas and you poor Californian's are on lock down. My and JMG's point was that we're not on lock down and Texas is not exactly a good example of what to do.
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      10-26-2020, 06:05 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C View Post
I don't have power? I can't afford my house? Both wrong. The place is burning down? lol So much hyperbole. Lots of people like to bash California. Like other places, it ain't for everyone but let's not resort to partisan hyperbole. California is not doing great on Covid I agree but neither is Texas. But the OP's position was everything is great over here in Texas and you poor Californian's are on lock down. My and JMG's point was that we're not on lock down and Texas is not exactly a good example of what to do.
You’re right that’s it’s some hyperbole and generalization, but not completely untrue.

The larger point is that California locking down to the extent they are isn’t working and yet you have people pointlessly out of work in Anaheim bc Disney can’t open. You also do have problems with electricity for many, maybe not you, and housing is indeed a huge problem in California. Basically, California isn’t the model for anything except complaining.

Economically, things are fine in Texas, so California should take notes from that perspective...particularly if Covid cases are no different.

I think we can agree the fire situation in California is utterly ridiculous and your leaders have failed to address it.
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      10-26-2020, 06:11 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by BayMoWe335 View Post
The larger point is that California locking down isnít working and yet you have people pointlessly out of work in Anaheim bc Disney canít open. You also do have problems with electricity for many, maybe not you, and housing is indeed a huge problem in California. Basically, California isnít the model for anything.

Economically, things are fine in Texas, so California should take notes from that perspective...particularly if Covid cases are no different.
But we're not on lock down. That's the point. Only certain areas are and that's because they have larger population densities. Like San Francisco. I think that the covid spread can be logically linked to population density like most viruses. The more contact the more spread, generally. Disney is a tough nut to crack because it's more important to contain the spread than to have people visit Mickey Mouse. But there's a lot of people out of work so they are working on a solution, but that takes a while due to red tape. With respect to housing it's a demand and supply thing. So from that perspective it is not a problem unless you HAVE to live here and cannot afford it. Just like a Hermes bag is a problem. You want it but cannot afford it. There's definitely options for cheaper housing, but you have to go out of the pricey areas. If you do, you'll find cheaper condos, etc.
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      10-26-2020, 06:44 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
My posts on the now defunct Political sub forum have repeatedly said people are not wearing masks properly nor are officials defining what a proper mask is. But the point of my post is these same officials have set rules and associated fines. Regardless of if you agree with them or not, you should follow them when attending an event or establishment. Because many times it's not your behind that is going to get in trouble. It's the people running the establishment or the event. If you don't want to comply with the rules, don't go. It's that simple.
Of course, I am just saying this whole thing is stupid. They say 1 in 5 restaurants here closed for good due to the rules and regulations.
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      10-26-2020, 08:13 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by BayMoWe335 View Post
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Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C View Post
I don't have power? I can't afford my house? Both wrong. The place is burning down? lol So much hyperbole. Lots of people like to bash California. Like other places, it ain't for everyone but let's not resort to partisan hyperbole. California is not doing great on Covid I agree but neither is Texas. But the OP's position was everything is great over here in Texas and you poor Californian's are on lock down. My and JMG's point was that we're not on lock down and Texas is not exactly a good example of what to do.
You're right that's it's some hyperbole and generalization, but not completely untrue.

The larger point is that California locking down to the extent they are isn't working and yet you have people pointlessly out of work in Anaheim bc Disney can't open. You also do have problems with electricity for many, maybe not you, and housing is indeed a huge problem in California. Basically, California isn't the model for anything except complaining.

Economically, things are fine in Texas, so California should take notes from that perspective...particularly if Covid cases are no different.

I think we can agree the fire situation in California is utterly ridiculous and your leaders have failed to address it.
Many fires, not all, in CA are on Federal land. Are they being mismanaged? Maybe. But also, it is dry and hot here. Fires are a natural occurrence. It's difficult to clear hundreds of thousands of acres of dry bush, in both state and federal areas. We are talking billions in dollars of clearing land... which isn't really an option. Overall, the response of fire fighters has been phenomenal. This is a case study in human perseverance in the face of natural disasters.
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      10-26-2020, 09:18 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C View Post
But we're not on lock down. That's the point. Only certain areas are and that's because they have larger population densities. Like San Francisco. I think that the covid spread can be logically linked to population density like most viruses. The more contact the more spread, generally. Disney is a tough nut to crack because it's more important to contain the spread than to have people visit Mickey Mouse. But there's a lot of people out of work so they are working on a solution, but that takes a while due to red tape. With respect to housing it's a demand and supply thing. So from that perspective it is not a problem unless you HAVE to live here and cannot afford it. Just like a Hermes bag is a problem. You want it but cannot afford it. There's definitely options for cheaper housing, but you have to go out of the pricey areas. If you do, you'll find cheaper condos, etc.
Disney is a largely outdoor venue with parks all over the world re-opened. California is being difficult and ridiculous. The spread doesn't stop by closing Disney, because with that logic, you'd had to keep it closed until everyone is vaccinated. You need a plan to manage it, which Disney has implemented successfully elsewhere in states with reasonable governors.

There are lots of densely populated cities that are open...no one has "great" numbers, but we are managing. Everyone wants to focus on "CASES, CASES" but if you stop and think, are we any worse off than March? We are testing FAR more than ever and we are largely re-opened. Of course cases will be higher. Literally 99% of those will recover at home watching Netflix and ordering Doordash. The deaths will be a result of a multitude of factors (94% with an average of 2.6 accompanying factors) and 60% will be over 75 years old, 40% over 85. There will be some heart-wrenching sad cases sprinkled in, but we don't stop flying because planes crash. Add in the secondary factors for mandatory lockdowns and you realize this is completely illogical.

The original idea was to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed and supplying medical equipment. We've managed both those risks. Deaths have slowed. Cases are largely irrelevant. We need to watch hospitals and continue to manage those numbers. Most hospitals are completely fine.
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      10-26-2020, 09:21 PM   #57
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Many fires, not all, in CA are on Federal land. Are they being mismanaged? Maybe. But also, it is dry and hot here. Fires are a natural occurrence. It's difficult to clear hundreds of thousands of acres of dry bush, in both state and federal areas. We are talking billions in dollars of clearing land... which isn't really an option. Overall, the response of fire fighters has been phenomenal. This is a case study in human perseverance in the face of natural disasters.
Billions of dollars should be doable for an economy the size of California. It's chump change to what it's costing in terms of managing after the fact and downstream impacts like air quality. It's completely mismanaged and the state has done a terrible job across the board.
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      10-26-2020, 10:51 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by BayMoWe335 View Post
Billions of dollars should be doable for an economy the size of California. It's chump change to what it's costing in terms of managing after the fact and downstream impacts like air quality. It's completely mismanaged and the state has done a terrible job across the board.
Again, most of the fires are on FEDERAL land. (1.1 mil acres of federal land vs 700k acres on state land burned in CA in 2020). It is the same across the country. More federal land is burned than state land overall (https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/IF10244.pdf). If there is mismanagement, then the federal government has a bigger share of the blame than local governments, but playing the blame game doesn't solve problems. I'd rather think of solutions.

Here is the CA budget proposal:

https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4172

CA is a large state with 5 major cities and a lot of infrastructure to support. It seems you know exactly what to do if you were in charge and you can guarantee success. I encourage you to present your budget proposal in Sacramento and perhaps run for office.
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      10-26-2020, 11:03 PM   #59
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Count down to thread lock due to politics in 3...2...1.....
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      10-26-2020, 11:11 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by BayMoWe335 View Post
Disney is a largely outdoor venue with parks all over the world re-opened.
Infection rate (per 100k)

CA: 2245
FL: 3550
TX: 2997


https://www.statista.com/statistics/...americans-by-s

And you are criticizing California's covid response? I think you just have it out for CA. That's fine, just ask yourself why.
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      10-26-2020, 11:32 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Infection rate (per 100k)

CA: 2245
FL: 3550
TX: 2997


https://www.statista.com/statistics/...americans-by-s

And you are criticizing California's covid response? I think you just have it out for CA. That's fine, just ask yourself why.
And? 3% versus 2.2% infected for a respiratory virus that doesn’t kill healthy people or young people? California has a higher death rate in that case bc both states have the same amount of deaths. Why are you allowing so many deaths with your wonderful response?

Yes, I’m criticizing them for a marginal benefit that may or may not even be attributable to lockdowns and destroys so many people in meaningful and preventable ways.

I have it out for them because they are taking away the livelihood of thousands in an already poorly managed state where money is extremely important.
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      10-26-2020, 11:38 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Again, most of the fires are on FEDERAL land. (1.1 mil acres of federal land vs 700k acres on state land burned in CA in 2020). It is the same across the country. More federal land is burned than state land overall (https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/IF10244.pdf). If there is mismanagement, then the federal government has a bigger share of the blame than local governments, but playing the blame game doesn't solve problems. I'd rather think of solutions.

Here is the CA budget proposal:

https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4172

CA is a large state with 5 major cities and a lot of infrastructure to support. It seems you know exactly what to do if you were in charge and you can guarantee success. I encourage you to present your budget proposal in Sacramento and perhaps run for office.
I’m not pretending to know the solution. Even forgetting the federal land, you have a big problem. It’s not my responsibility to figure out how to fix it...it’s your state’s and they’ve done a pisspoor job, like they have with your jobs. That’s all im saying.
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      10-26-2020, 11:43 PM   #63
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The county requires that *MY FAMILY* clears the land on *MY FAMILY* property every year. Why the double standard :
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      10-27-2020, 12:08 AM   #64
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wont be long before this thread becomes a political bloodbath
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      10-27-2020, 12:20 AM   #65
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Logic has escaped this thread sadly.

There are two schools of thought, one is preventative, the other wants to deal with the aftermath.

One saves more lives to begin with, the other does not, I'll let you guess which is which.
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      10-27-2020, 12:29 AM   #66
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Logic has escaped this thread sadly.

There are two schools of thought, one is preventative, the other wants to deal with the aftermath.

One saves more lives to begin with, the other does not, I'll let you guess which is which.
Iím surprised to see this school of thought from a Washington resident.



No, no Iím not.
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