C7 Corvette test drive from an M3 driver

[signes]

That Vette looks so good. Just the back end I don't care for. Thanks for all the comments guys.

[Sapper_M3]

Originally Posted by gthal

I didn't like the chrome strip either... easy to fix in about 30 min with some Plastidip... mine is black now like the rest of the grille...

Simple but effective. That chrome strip is honestly the only styling feature of the new vette that I dislike.

[Sapper_M3]

Originally Posted by gthal

Also, the car Chris was testing was an auto (big no no for him, especially given the C7 auto is no where near DCT standards) and not a Z51 car based on some reports and his review notes (it had the wheels but not the other bits like the e-diff, etc) and was reportedly a pre-production car. Not suggesting that makes the comparison less valid but if he was using a full production, 7MT, Z51 car today the result might have been even better in favour of the C7.

Most comparisons confirm that the C7 outperforms the 911S. Some reviewers still give the 911S the nod on feel regardless of the actual performance results. When you consider price, there really is little comparison (he commented that the options on the 911 were more than the entire C7 ). Given the 911S is one of the best developed sports cars around, I still see it as a fantastic result for the C7.

I'm going to go off on a tangent here, so forgive me: Was anyone else baffled/confused by that claim by Chris Harris that the options on that particular 991S added up to 60,000 dollars?? The 991S base price is 98,000.....so I'm supposed to believe retail on that car was 158,000 dollars? Just for some frame of reference, MSRP on the 991 Turbo is 150,000 dollars (and MSRP on a 991 GT3 is only 130,000 dollars). Can you really spec a 991S to that price range...? Or did Chris Harris make some mistake and inadvertently compare the U.S. price of his test corvette (60,000 dollars) to the cost of the 911's options in some U.K./European country where the costs are off the charts?

I know, I know--this is COMPLETELY off the main course of this thread, but this has been nagging at me since I watched that C7 vs 991S video.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Sapper_M3

I'm going to go off on a tangent here, so forgive me: Was anyone else baffled/confused by that claim by Chris Harris that the options on that particular 991S added up to 60,000 dollars?? The 991S base price is 98,000.....so I'm supposed to believe retail on that car was 158,000 dollars? Just for some frame of reference, MSRP on the 991 Turbo is 150,000 dollars (and MSRP on a 991 GT3 is only 130,000 dollars). Can you really spec a 991S to that price range...? Or did Chris Harris make some mistake and inadvertently compare the U.S. price of his test corvette (60,000 dollars) to the cost of the 911's options in some U.K./European country where the costs are off the charts?

I know, I know--this is COMPLETELY off the main course of this thread, but this has been nagging at me since I watched that C7 vs 991S video.

I think he is correct. I priced a 911S in Canada online at $112,800 base. I loaded the car up with options (although there are so many it is confusing) and the price finished up at $176,065 Porsche is known for crazy expensive options and cars that come with little standard stuff so you are adding a lot of options.

So, loaded versions of each car in Canada fully loaded...

C7: $79,500
M4: $103,000
911S: $176,000

Talk about performance not matching pricing

Here is the US pricing... base to fully loaded.

C7: $53,000 to $77,000
M4: $64,000 to $91,000
911S: $98,000 to $158,000

So, you could buy a very well equipped M4 for daily duties and a well equipped C7 for the weekend/track and be just around the same price as a loaded 911S

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by gthal

I think he is correct. I priced a 911S in Canada online at $112,800 base. I loaded the car up with options (although there are so many it is confusing) and the price finished up at $176,065 Porsche is known for crazy expensive options and cars that come with little standard stuff so you are adding a lot of options.

So, loaded versions of each car in Canada fully loaded...

C7: $79,500
M4: $103,000
911S: $176,000

Talk about performance not matching pricing

Here is the US pricing... base to fully loaded.

C7: $53,000 to $77,000
M4: $64,000 to $91,000
911S: $98,000 to $158,000

So, you could buy a very well equipped M4 for daily duties and a well equipped C7 for the weekend/track and be just around the same price as a loaded 911S

Wow. Interesting little bit of info. I choose M4 and C7.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Patronus86

I know you weren't comparing the C7 to other cars, but you were stating that you didn't like the C7's supposed traction issues:



That's why I brought up the other cars; because the whole point of the corvette, especially the stingray, is not to be the absolute best in its class, but to be the best for its $ value. Other cars will outperform it, but they also cost quite a bit more.

Also, I'm not trying to start an argument here, but you did show a C6 corvette crashing, not the new C7 stingray, which has different stability and traction control systems. All the reviews indicate that the new C7 retains some of tail happy traits from its predecessors, but the new systems also make a world of difference in handling and traction....so there is no point in debating the C7's traction issues, or lack thereof, unless we are using actual videos or empirical evidence from actual C7's...

That was my point in that post.



Yeah i know Chris Harris wasn't using the Z51 version...it was still a great vid to watch....you know Chevy is doing something right if they can get someone like him to enjoy their cars.

Thanks for comments
I didn't have any chance to test drive the C7; however I have already tested the C5 and C6 and have seen lots of videos all referring to the traction issue. with this history I was curious to see if the issue is still there and asked OP since he owns this car

[Patronus86]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Thanks for comments
I didn't have any chance to test drive the C7; however I have already tested the C5 and C6 and have seen lots of videos all referring to the traction issue. with this history I was curious to see if the issue is still there and asked OP since he owns this car

Your second post, the one I responded to, sounded more like a statement than a question. That's why I brought up the corvette's traditional attributes and the C7's reported improvement in the traction department.

Your welcome.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Patronus86

Your second post, the one I responded to, sounded more like a statement than a question. That's why I brought up the corvette's traditional attributes and the C7's reported improvement in the traction department.

Your welcome.

statement about previous model and not C7

[Patronus86]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

statement about previous model and not C7

So if you acknowledge that you were in fact making a statement, and not asking a question, then you should be able to understand why I responded...and thus there shouldn't be a need for you to explain yourself.

Also, you didn't specify that you were referring to the previous corvette models. You specifically said "this car" so I read that to mean the C7 (since that was the topic of the thread).

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

The problem I have with this car is traction since it has been always a powerful and light car. I see lots of videos over youtube about crashes of Corvettes and all of them are referring to traction according to the huge torque you mentioned. this is one of them that whenever I watch it, I feel sorry for the driver who crashed this beautiful car

But thanks for clarifying...

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Patronus86

So if you acknowledge that you were in fact making a statement, and not asking a question, then you should be able to understand why I responded...and thus there shouldn't be a need for you to explain yourself.

Also, you didn't specify that you were referring to the previous corvette models. You specifically said "this car" so I read that to mean the C7 (since that was the topic of the thread).



But thanks for clarifying...

haha... I thought it was obvious common sense I said : since it has been always .....didn't say has been and currently is did I???
This statement refers to past not now and future

[amzbimmer]

Originally Posted by gthal

I owned 2 E92 M3s and now own a C7 Z51 with MRC. A couple of thoughts/observations...

Was the C7 a Z51? I ask because the base car suspension is very soft. A Z51 with MRC has a suspension that is similar to an E92 M3 in touring mode all the way up to much firmer than an M3 in track mode.

Also, the weight of the steering is adjustable. Track mode is very firm and sport mode is about the same as my E92 M3. Touring mode is way too light for me... I NEVER drive with the steering set to touring (which is default until you reconfigure the car).

With the car to sport mode (steering, MRC suspension, throttle), it is firmer in all respects than my E92 M3. In touring mode, it was, IMO, similar. Without MRC suspension in a base car, many reports are it is too soft. MRC completely eliminates this issue... from comfortable in touring mode to track firm in track mode. I would not buy a C7 that was not Z51 with the MRC suspension. Too soft and not purposeful enough... besides, you get bigger brakes and better sway bars and suspension tuning with Z51. A real no brainer.

IMO, that is one of the issues with modern cars... there are SO many adjustable areas that it is hard to get the car dialed in for how you prefer without extended use. There are so many configurable areas (suspension firmness, throttle response, steering weight, exhaust tone, etc) that you really need to live with a car to figure it out. That makes an hour test drive a difficult thing to have a meaningful comparison with.

Otherwise, your thoughts largely align with my own experience. The car feels like a go kart in many ways. It is incredibly planted and has a TON of grip all of the time. It has so much grip that I worry I'm beyond my own driving ability and not aware of it because the car is making up the difference. The C7 is more of a true sports car than the E92 M3 and once set up correctly, feels more like it all of the time. It also has a ton of torque and power and, as mentioned, insane grip. Any car doing mid 11's in the 1/4 at 120mph (lots of owners have gotten this in real world testing) and over 1G on the skid pad is pretty fun

In an ideal world, I'd have an M3 or M4 for my daily commute and the C7 Z51 for the weekend and track.

Thanks for the insigtful comparison.

The C7 I drove was indeed a Z51, so I cannot really explain the "softness" of the suspension. I suppose it is a bit subjective, but I feel like Corvette may be trying to appeal to the masses and/or an older crowd, which is fine by me. I wish it had the magnetic ride so I could have compared that in multiple modes.

I did try the steering on sport mode, I wish I had known to try track mode as well. I still found sport mode to be very light and slightly soft for my taste, but the adjustability is definitely key. If I get a chance to test drive again, I will definitely request one with MRC.

[amzbimmer]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

i must be in the minority....but i really don't like the 'style' of the C7 Corvette at all. I was never really much of a Corvette fan----but the new one is just way too flashy, blinged out, and designed like it was made for a Hollywood set----qualities i just don't like in the cars i dig. I like understated bulges and discrete aggression.

That being said....i suppose what the Corvette provides is 'pseudo-supercar'-like experience for under $60k which is fine....but it certainly does look like a cheap copy of better supercars. I've seen several on the road now and i think they look awfully cheesy in person.

As for performance? it is a mega bargain for what it does.....but living with one every day? i certainly could never imagine doing so.

I'm curious why you couldn't live in one everyday. Supposedly this C7 is way more driveable even as a GT and for really long drives compared with the other versions. My test drive really challenged my perception that the Corvette couldn't be a great daily driver, assuming one doesn't have kids/need a bigger trunk. The ride is as comfortable as an E92 M3, if not more "cushy" (at least in the one I drove).

I suggest you test drive one (if you haven't) and see if this holds up.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by gthal

All fair comments... style is absolutely subjective.

Living with one every day? I do it and it is just as easy to live with as the E92 M3 I owned.

In terms of styling, it is absolutely aggressive. It also gets more positive attention than any car I have ever owned. I get more compliments in a day than I would get in a year with other cars. I've had more people tell me the C7 is one of the nicest cars they have ever seen than I can count.

Having said that, understated beauty is also a good thing and I think the M3 does that extremely well. It blends in with the crowd and some people prefer that too and I actually understand it. At first all of the attention the C7 got was flattering. Now, I just want to be able to get gas without having to talk to one, two or even three people about the car... wait for them to take pictures... etc. It does get a bit old. Hopefully, when more are on the road where I live, the attention will die off. With the M3, I only had people who knew the car ever take the time to stop and talk. In many ways, that was a lot easier

Definitely agree.

I rarely received attention in my tuned BMWs. Most people (i.e., non-enthusiasts) just can't tell the difference between an M Sport 335i and the M3. Sometimes my 7-Series would elicit a comment or two.

Surprisingly, as tame/understated as my C63 looks (silver, 4 doors), that has been the car that has attracted the most attention/struck up the most conversations. I guess many people just haven't seen a Mercedes with four exhaust tips and massive brake hardware.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by amzbimmer

Thanks for the insigtful comparison.

The C7 I drove was indeed a Z51, so I cannot really explain the "softness" of the suspension. I suppose it is a bit subjective, but I feel like Corvette may be trying to appeal to the masses and/or an older crowd, which is fine by me. I wish it had the magnetic ride so I could have compared that in multiple modes.

I did try the steering on sport mode, I wish I had known to try track mode as well. I still found sport mode to be very light and slightly soft for my taste, but the adjustability is definitely key. If I get a chance to test drive again, I will definitely request one with MRC.

The softness in the suspension you are referring to is the base suspension. MRC is what makes all the difference. I think you will notice a significant difference when you go for a test drive in a C7 with MRC.

[amzbimmer]

Originally Posted by pgviper

The softness in the suspension you are referring to is the base suspension. MRC is what makes all the difference. I think you will notice a significant difference when you go for a test drive in a C7 with MRC.

Thanks pgviper. I wasn't sure if the base suspension is like BMW, where it is set between "sport and sport plus". Sounds like the C7 is fixed at a "comfort" type mode.

That is encouraging, and I'm definitely looking forward to trying the MRC!

[Audio Fan]

I like the Vettes and checked them out pretty closely this weekend. I don't think there will be much difference in performance between the M4 and the C7, although I'm sure there will be some. I think the M4 will feel much more Vette-like off the line than ever before. If you are only concerned about the very best numbers, even if the numbers are pretty darn close, get the C7. If you love numbers, but also enjoy fit and finish, material quality, ergonomics, engineering and the like, the M4 is a no brainer. While the C7 is a spectacular car, all you need to do is look at the paint quality, seam spacing, materials quality to see where the M4 money is spent. The white C7s for example had huge gaps that were noticably uneven, especially around the hood and lots of orange peel. The buttons and handles just lack that snap that BMW gives you. I enjoy and appreciate those things, especially when I only get one sports car that is my DD. What I want is an M4 coupe and a C7 convertible, which is a big winner because there is little weight or performance hit for open air fun.

By the way, the taillights seem perfect for the car. Round ones would look out of place on such an angular car. The overall design is the best Vette yet IMHO. It just looks great and menacing. The dealer that I visited has sold 200 in seven months - crazy. Plus, the are all marked up with a "market adjustment."

[Patronus86]

Originally Posted by Audio Fan

I like the Vettes and checked them out pretty closely this weekend. I don't think there will be much difference in performance between the M4 and the C7, although I'm sure there will be some. I think the M4 will feel much more Vette-like off the line than ever before. If you are only concerned about the very best numbers, even if the numbers are pretty darn close, get the C7. If you love numbers, but also enjoy fit and finish, material quality, ergonomics, engineering and the like, the M4 is a no brainer.

I think you underestimate the difference in performance between the M4 and the Stingray. Stingray has 460 hp and 460 lb-ft whereas the M4 only has 425hp and 405 lb-ft.

Stingray is a true sports coupe, the m4 is 2+2.

Stingray is a V8 Naturally Aspirated, while the m4 is a twin-turbo, and however slight it may be, there will be some turbo lag. So no, the M4 will not feel like the vette and vice versa.

The stingray has been recorded by many to pull at least a 3.9 on its 0-60 mph whereas the M4 has only been pulling a 4.1 (with DCT).


And lastly I wouldn't speak for everyone in explaining why people buy corvettes...because those I've talked to don't just buy these cars for the numbers. The corvette is a raw and emotional car that comes out of the box ready for performance driving (dragstrips, tracks, ect.). Most people don't buy vettes just so they can brag to their friends about how much horsepower it has; they buy these cars to go fast and get a true driver's experience.

I would consider the M4 a much more refined car that can do everything fairly well. You can track it fairly well, use for daily driving, run errands, go on trips....it offers performance with a fair amount of practicality.

I would buy the corvette if I wanted all out performance, and I would buy the M4 if I wanted performance on hand but also valued comfort and practicality. That being said, the new vettes are coming with much better interiors and overall quality....so the gap between them and BMW's is closing on that area.

[Audio Fan]

Originally Posted by Patronus86

I think you underestimate the difference in performance between the M4 and the Stingray. Stingray has 460 hp and 460 lb-ft whereas the M4 only has 425hp and 405 lb-ft.

Stingray is a true sports coupe, the m4 is 2+2.

Stingray is a V8 Naturally Aspirated, while the m4 is a twin-turbo, and however slight it may be, there will be some turbo lag. So no, the M4 will not feel like the vette and vice versa.

The stingray has been recorded by many to pull at least a 3.9 on its 0-60 mph whereas the M4 has only been pulling a 4.1 (with DCT).


And lastly I wouldn't speak for everyone in explaining why people buy corvettes...because those I've talked to don't just buy these cars for the numbers. The corvette is a raw and emotional car that comes out of the box ready for performance driving (dragstrips, tracks, ect.). Most people don't buy vettes just so they can brag to their friends about how much horsepower it has; they buy these cars to go fast and get a true driver's experience.

I would consider the M4 a much more refined car that can do everything fairly well. You can track it fairly well, use for daily driving, run errands, go on trips....it offers performance with a fair amount of practicality.

I would buy the corvette if I wanted all out performance, and I would buy the M4 if I wanted performance on hand but also valued comfort and practicality. That being said, the new vettes are coming with much better interiors and overall quality....so the gap between them and BMW's is closing on that area.

No one has really tested the M4 yet. The numbers you quote are slower than what BMW rated it for. I've never seen a BMW not exceed the ratings. I've only seen two individuals provide their results. I'll bet the cars will be closer than you think in terms of performance. The quality difference is still very noticeable. I wouldn't have said this with my E92, but the F82 is a different animal.

[Patronus86]

Originally Posted by Audio Fan

No one has really tested the M4 yet. The numbers you quote are slower than what BMW rated it for. I've never seen a BMW not exceed the ratings. I've only seen two individuals provide their results. I'll bet the cars will be closer than you think in terms of performance. The quality difference is still very noticeable. I wouldn't have said this with my E92, but the F82 is a different animal.

A few auto journalists have reviewed the M4 at this point...go check them out, they are on youtube. BMW does historically underrate their engines, but not to the magnitude of 35 horsepower.

The Stingray has also been reviewed, so you don't need to take my word for it. You can go compare the cars for yourself.

Also, the F82 does have a better quality than the stingray, and it should for the extra money. All I am saying is that the quality of the new corvettes aren't as bad as you make them out to be.

[Audio Fan]

Originally Posted by Patronus86

A few auto journalists have reviewed the M4 at this point...go check them out, they are on youtube. BMW does historically underrate their engines, but not to the magnitude of 35 horsepower.

The Stingray has also been reviewed, so you don't need to take my word for it. You can go compare the cars for yourself.

Also, the F82 does have a better quality than the stingray, and it should for the extra money. All I am saying is that the quality of the new corvettes aren't as bad as you make them out to be.

Just read my posts literally. No one has tested the M4 or M3. Testing for skid pad numbers, lap times, 0-60 is a lot different than power sliding through three laps in Portugal. I said the Vette was a very nice car, it just isn't close to BMW/MB/Audi fit and finish standards. I thought the Vette was going to be better in that regard after all of the marketing. I bet the testing will reveal some pretty nice numbers. I'm done, just MHO.

[damnitBobby]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

i must be in the minority....but i really don't like the 'style' of the C7 Corvette at all. I was never really much of a Corvette fan----but the new one is just way too flashy, blinged out, and designed like it was made for a Hollywood set----qualities i just don't like in the cars i dig. I like understated bulges and discrete aggression.

That being said....i suppose what the Corvette provides is 'pseudo-supercar'-like experience for under $60k which is fine....but it certainly does look like a cheap copy of better supercars. I've seen several on the road now and i think they look awfully cheesy in person.

As for performance? it is a mega bargain for what it does.....but living with one every day? i certainly could never imagine doing so.

very much agree with this post

i have massive respect for the vette but when i saw it in person i kept thinking it was gonna transform

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Audio Fan

Just read my posts literally. No one has tested the M4 or M3. Testing for skid pad numbers, lap times, 0-60 is a lot different than power sliding through three laps in Portugal. I said the Vette was a very nice car, it just isn't close to BMW/MB/Audi fit and finish standards. I thought the Vette was going to be better in that regard after all of the marketing. I bet the testing will reveal some pretty nice numbers. I'm done, just MHO.

Not true. I have owned an 2 E92 M3's, a C63 coupe and a C7. The C7 interior is very much on par in fit, finish and materials. The paint is similar to my first E92 M3 with some orange peel but nothing to worry about (my C63 had the best paint). The body panel fit is spot on.

I'm not suggesting the build quality might be slightly higher on the MB and BMW but it is very, very close. BTW, my C63 had more issues in the first 4 months of ownership than my C7 had. My M3 (first one) had lots of squeaks and rattles (C7, none).

My point is you are incorrect in your comment quoted above. Some of the very early C7s had some issues but that is not the case now. The only real continued issue, if there is one, is orange peel... but guess what, as mentioned, my M3 had it too.