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      09-18-2018, 10:57 AM   #1
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"himpathy" - From the hypocritical left

Wow. Here is a new word from the far left I've never heard before, but comes straight from the Hypocritical dictionary.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/18/opini...thy/index.html

"Himpathy" - men who react positively or empathetically towards men.

Somehow this is spun as being negative.

I suppose if "Himpathy" exists then so does "Herpathy", and if so would the definition of "Herpathy" not be:

"Herpathy" - woman who react positively or empathetically towards woman

Should we consider "herpathy" in a negative light?

This topic never gets old to me. Im just going to make this bold statement right now: Men are as much victimized by woman as woman are victimized by men even if not in the same way.
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      09-18-2018, 11:02 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
Wow. Here is a new word from the far left I've never heard before, but comes straight from the Hypocritical dictionary.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/18/opini...thy/index.html

"Himpathy" - men who react positively or empathetically towards men.

Somehow this is spun as being negative.

I suppose if "Himpathy" exists then so does "Herpathy", and if so would the definition of "Herpathy" not be:

"Herpathy" - woman who react positively or empathetically towards woman

Should we consider "herpathy" in a negative light?

This topic never gets old to me. Im just going to make this bold statement right now: Men are as much victimized by woman as woman are victimized by men even if not in the same way.
Truly unbelievable article.
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      09-18-2018, 12:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
...Men are as much victimized by woman as woman are victimized by men even if not in the same way.
Expand on this thought, please? I don't see it.
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      09-18-2018, 12:42 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
Wow. Here is a new word from the far left I've never heard before, but comes straight from the Hypocritical dictionary.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/18/opini...thy/index.html

"Himpathy" - men who react positively or empathetically towards men.

Somehow this is spun as being negative.

I suppose if "Himpathy" exists then so does "Herpathy", and if so would the definition of "Herpathy" not be:

"Herpathy" - woman who react positively or empathetically towards woman

Should we consider "herpathy" in a negative light?

This topic never gets old to me. Im just going to make this bold statement right now: Men are as much victimized by woman as woman are victimized by men even if not in the same way.
You're getting to bent out of shape over a term made up by Philosopher Kate Manne.
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      09-18-2018, 12:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
Expand on this thought, please? I don't see it.
Real life example. My best friend, who is 50 married a younger gal with the express caveat that he wanted no children. He has 4. About 4 months after the wedding she begins to nag him about wanting another child and then ratchets up the language and rhetoric with language such as, "I can't believe you're denying me the opportunity to have another child". Now it's 4 months later, I go to a party which he is also attending and he tells me, "I need to tell you something but you probably need to sit down". Yes. She's pregnant. Stopped using birth control without telling and finally tells him after the 10th week. He's a stand up guy and won't leave but this is utter BS.

Different thing. Victimized nonetheless.
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      09-18-2018, 12:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Real life example. My best friend, who is 50 married a younger gal with the express caveat that he wanted no children. He has 4. About 4 months after the wedding she begins to nag him about wanting another child and then ratchets up the language and rhetoric with language such as, "I can't believe you're denying me the opportunity to have another child". Now it's 4 months later, I go to a party which he is also attending and he tells me, "I need to tell you something but you probably need to sit down". Yes. She's pregnant. Stopped using birth control without telling and finally tells him after the 10th week. He's a stand up guy and won't leave but this is utter BS.

Different thing. Victimized nonetheless.
That's a shitty story, no doubt about it. People make bad decisions re: marriage all the time, though. Sounds like your buddy is one of us.

Still nothing that backs up the assertion that women victimize men as much as men victimize women.
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      09-18-2018, 12:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Real life example. My best friend, who is 50 married a younger gal with the express caveat that he wanted no children. He has 4. About 4 months after the wedding she begins to nag him about wanting another child and then ratchets up the language and rhetoric with language such as, "I can't believe you're denying me the opportunity to have another child". Now it's 4 months later, I go to a party which he is also attending and he tells me, "I need to tell you something but you probably need to sit down". Yes. She's pregnant. Stopped using birth control without telling and finally tells him after the 10th week. He's a stand up guy and won't leave but this is utter BS.

Different thing. Victimized nonetheless.
Happens all the time, and its definitely victimizes men. Ive witnessed first hand the stress, anguish and life altering result is of this type of abuse. Make no mistake this is abusive.
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      09-18-2018, 01:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
That's a shitty story, no doubt about it. People make bad decisions re: marriage all the time, though. Sounds like your buddy is one of us.

Still nothing that backs up the assertion that women victimize men as much as men victimize women.
It funny. I had this conversation with an ex gf who is a real feminist. Her assertion was that women are better than men, period, and that they would never do the things that men do. I countered that her statement was pure BS and then pulled an article on the Iraqi torture events and showed her the woman who was at the center of the controversy. I also reminded her that in states where domestic abuse is assigned to the first person who throws a blow, women are arrested at about the same rates as men.

Violence, ugliness, mean spiritedness, and all the other crap is the individual decision of the assailant in the moment. It has nothing to do with sex anymore than it has to do with race. It's all an individual choice.

Cheers, my friend-mk
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      09-18-2018, 01:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zugzwang View Post
Thats rough. Really rough.

If a man leaves out a hundred dollar bill on the ground. Say 20 feet away and somebody picks it up and takes it away. Was the loss of the hundred bucks his fault? Or not? Theres no correct answer to that scenerio.

Congrats to him for having another kid. All children are blessings.

At 50? Getting snipped before tying the knot might have been wise.
Leaves out or drops? These are two different scenarios.

He entered into the relationship being fully honest and was victimized in a predacious manner which will cost him north of $500,000 over the next 21 years. This is pure BS.
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      09-18-2018, 01:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
Happens all the time, and its definitely victimizes men. Ive witnessed first hand the stress, anguish and life altering result is of this type of abuse. Make no mistake this is abusive.
I know. As I stated in an earlier post, this will end up costing him over $500,000 in the next 21 years.

It's really a crime.
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      09-18-2018, 01:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zugzwang View Post
Thats rough. Really rough.

If a man leaves out a hundred dollar bill on the ground. Say 20 feet away and somebody picks it up and takes it away. Was the loss of the hundred bucks his fault? Or not? Theres no correct answer to that scenerio.

Congrats to him for having another kid. All children are blessings.

At 50? Getting snipped before tying the knot might have been wise.
Yep, it is the man's fault. Instead of trusting his bride, he should have had his tubes snipped. Are you kidding?
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      09-18-2018, 01:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
It funny. I had this conversation with an ex gf who is a real feminist. Her assertion was that women are better than men, period, and that they would never do the things that men do. I countered that her statement was pure BS and then pulled an article on the Iraqi torture events and showed her the woman who was at the center of the controversy. I also reminded her that in states where domestic abuse is assigned to the first person who throws a blow, women are arrested at about the same rates as men.

Violence, ugliness, mean spiritedness, and all the other crap is the individual decision of the assailant in the moment. It has nothing to do with sex anymore than it has to do with race. It's all an individual choice.

Cheers, my friend-mk

Agreed with all of that. People are, by and large, people.

However, I think because of the patriarchal history of our society men are given far more opportunity to victimize women than the other way around.

Equal proclivity plus significantly more opportunity = ???
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      09-18-2018, 01:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
Agreed with all of that. People are, by and large, people.

However, I think because of the patriarchal history of our society men are given far more opportunity to victimize women than the other way around.

Equal proclivity plus significantly more opportunity = ???
I have to disagree on the opportunity because how many times have you seen a woman use a guy for money? For connections? For homework? (Yes, it goes back that far) Women almost always want the high status guy just as men want the hot woman.

The victimization is different but it is still victimization.
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      09-18-2018, 01:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
I have to disagree on the opportunity because how many times have you seen a woman use a guy for money? For connections? For homework? (Yes, it goes back that far) Women almost always want the high status guy just as men want the hot woman.

The victimization is different but it is still victimization.
And you feel that men are innocent of all of those same manipulations?

I don't. I've seen it. Hell, I've done it.
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      09-18-2018, 01:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
And you feel that men are innocent of all of those same manipulations?

I don't. I've seen it. Hell, I've done it.
I've never stated that men aren't. I'm stating that women ARE. Not arguing the negative...proclaiming the factual.

Women are abusive, both mentally and physically, just as men are. That is my position.
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      09-18-2018, 01:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
I've never stated that men aren't. I'm stating that women ARE. Not arguing the negative...proclaiming the factual.

Women are abusive, both mentally and physically, just as men are. That is my position.
The discussion isn't about whether or not it happens, it obviously and demonstrably does. The discussion is about the frequency thereof. Unless I'm misinterpreting Sassicaia's post:

"...Men are as much victimized by woman as woman are victimized by men even if not in the same way."
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      09-18-2018, 01:35 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
Expand on this thought, please? I don't see it.
Fair question:

Let me start with one which is in direct contrast to perception.

Domestic violence:
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/the180/why-...hink-1.3776182

"Based on the rates that we looked at across studies published over a ten year period, it looks like the average rate of violence perpetrated by men in intimate partner relationships is about 22 per cent, and by women it was actually found to be about 28 per cent, That is in terms of the rate of perpetration, but when we flip that and look at the rate of victimization, about 23 per cent of women reported that they were victimized in relationships, whereas the rate was about 19 per cent for men."

One thing to keep in mind is that its thought that men are much less likely to report domestic violence. In the end when it comes to this type of abuse which is stereotypically considered to me "men on woman" even if the numbers are high for men committing the crime its not at levels which warrant the type of attention woman get on the topic vs men.

Now the quick response is "men can cause more physical harm then woman". I call BS on this for two reasons 1.) If the we follow the logic that the "damage done" as a result is purely physical then one can argue once the bruises heal the damage is done do. This is completely false as the main damage done in domestic violence is emotional.

Rape:
http://www.slate.com/articles/double...assaulted.html

"Last year the National Crime Victimization Survey turned up a remarkable statistic. In asking 40,000 households about rape and sexual violence, the survey uncovered that 38 percent of incidents were against men."

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/do...rnalCode=ajph&

"We assessed 12-month prevalence and incidence data on sexual victimization in 5 federal surveys that the Bureau of Justice Statistics, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation conducted independently in 2010 through 2012. We used these data to examine the prevailing assumption that men rarely experience sexual victimization. We concluded that federal surveys detect a high prevalence of sexual victimization among men—in many circumstances similar to the prevalence found among women."

Sexual Abuse by Teachers:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/30...awareness.html

Center for Sex Offender Management: "over 30 percent – of all teacher-student sexual offenses are estimated to have been perpetrated by females"

While females are less then men here we are still talking 30%, and yet its not even a whisper that woman play a role, or accountability needs to be had by their abuses.

Above are only the stereotypical types of abuse that gets all the media. It clearly shows that woman aren't delicate flowers and victims. The numbers are so high its completely acceptable for men to have "himpathy"

Less conventional types of abuse:

Only 17.8% of men receive custody of their child after divorce. Is taking a man's children away from him not a form of abuse?
https://www.thefirmformen.com/articl...athers-rights/

Trapping men into having children:
I don't have a stat here, because frankly it wouldn't be politically correct enough to fund the research, but the amount of men who have been trapped into having kids seems high considered most men I know know someone who has been fraudulent put into that position

Gold Digging:
Have you ever met a men who was dragged through divorce and forced to give half, or pay alimony because of a gold digger? Most would say its one of the worst experiences they have ever had. 100% of them would trade a punch in the face by Mike Tyson in exchange for getting out of that situation. I have many male friends with lots of money, and have found some who fell victim to this predatory behaviour


I could go on, but you get my point.
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      09-18-2018, 01:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Real life example. My best friend, who is 50 married a younger gal with the express caveat that he wanted no children. He has 4. About 4 months after the wedding she begins to nag him about wanting another child and then ratchets up the language and rhetoric with language such as, "I can't believe you're denying me the opportunity to have another child". Now it's 4 months later, I go to a party which he is also attending and he tells me, "I need to tell you something but you probably need to sit down". Yes. She's pregnant. Stopped using birth control without telling and finally tells him after the 10th week. He's a stand up guy and won't leave but this is utter BS.

Different thing. Victimized nonetheless.
If it was such a big issue for him, he should have gotten a pre-nup. Or he should have done better diligence as to the character of his fiancée before marriage. He really has no one to blame but himself; sorry to say, he isn't a victim here. Just like buying a used M3 from someone on a verbal promise that the rod bearings are just fine, and then having them crater 50 miles later. You're SOL.
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      09-18-2018, 01:47 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoy View Post
If it was such a big issue for him, he should have gotten a pre-nup. Or he should have done better diligence as to the character of his fiancée before marriage. He really has no one to blame but himself; sorry to say, he isn't a victim here. Just like buying a used M3 from someone on a verbal promise that the rod bearings are just fine, and then having them crater 50 miles later. You're SOL.
Woman says "husband was physically abusive"

Response: "You should have done better diligence as to the character of your fiancee before marriage"

Sound ok to you?
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      09-18-2018, 01:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
Fair question:

Let me start with one which is in direct contrast to perception.

Domestic violence:
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/the180/why-...hink-1.3776182

"Based on the rates that we looked at across studies published over a ten year period, it looks like the average rate of violence perpetrated by men in intimate partner relationships is about 22 per cent, and by women it was actually found to be about 28 per cent, That is in terms of the rate of perpetration, but when we flip that and look at the rate of victimization, about 23 per cent of women reported that they were victimized in relationships, whereas the rate was about 19 per cent for men."

One thing to keep in mind is that its thought that men are much less likely to report domestic violence. In the end when it comes to this type of abuse which is stereotypically considered to me "men on woman" even if the numbers are high for men committing the crime its not at levels which warrant the type of attention woman get on the topic vs men.

Now the quick response is "men can cause more physical harm then woman". I call BS on this for two reasons 1.) If the we follow the logic that the "damage done" as a result is purely physical then one can argue once the bruises heal the damage is done do. This is completely false as the main damage done in domestic violence is emotional.
I'm not surprised by this. As I said above, people are people. In fact, our patriarchal society might actually enable women on this front as they could think "I'm just a girl, it doesn't count/I won't get in trouble/whatever".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
Rape:
http://www.slate.com/articles/double...assaulted.html

"Last year the National Crime Victimization Survey turned up a remarkable statistic. In asking 40,000 households about rape and sexual violence, the survey uncovered that 38 percent of incidents were against men."

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/do...rnalCode=ajph&

"We assessed 12-month prevalence and incidence data on sexual victimization in 5 federal surveys that the Bureau of Justice Statistics, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation conducted independently in 2010 through 2012. We used these data to examine the prevailing assumption that men rarely experience sexual victimization. We concluded that federal surveys detect a high prevalence of sexual victimization among men—in many circumstances similar to the prevalence found among women."
From that same article, however: "46 percent of male victims reported a female perpetrator." So less than half of the male victims talked about had a female perpetrator. Do we think that less than half of female rape victims had a male perpetrator? I'm doubtful.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
Sexual Abuse by Teachers:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/30...awareness.html

Center for Sex Offender Management: "over 30 percent – of all teacher-student sexual offenses are estimated to have been perpetrated by females"

While females are less then men here we are still talking 30%, and yet its not even a whisper that woman play a role, or accountability needs to be had by their abuses.

Above are only the stereotypical types of abuse that gets all the media. It clearly shows that woman aren't delicate flowers and victims. The numbers are so high its completely acceptable for men to have "himpathy"
30% dude. Less than 1/3 of the assailants are women. That's not bolstering your argument.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
Less conventional types of abuse:

Only 17.8% of men receive custody of their child after divorce. Is taking a man's children away from him not a form of abuse?
https://www.thefirmformen.com/articl...athers-rights/
Another casualty of our patriarchal society - the legal system automatically assumes the children will be "better off" with the mother. Further, how many of those cases did the father not fight for custody?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
Trapping men into having children:
I don't have a stat here, because frankly it wouldn't be politically correct enough to fund the research, but the amount of men who have been trapped into having kids seems high considered most men I know know someone who has been fraudulent put into that position
I don't know a single person that has been "trapped" into having kids.

No stats means there's nothing beyond anecdotes to talk about and that will get us nowhere, so....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
Gold Digging:
Have you ever met a men who was dragged through divorce and forced to give half, or pay alimony because of a gold digger? Most would say its one of the worst experiences they have ever had. 100% of them would trade a punch in the face by Mike Tyson in exchange for getting out of that situation. I have many male friends with lots of money, and have found some who fell victim to this predatory behavior.
Sure. It happens to wealthy women, too - although at a much lesser rate, I have to assume.

Nobody forced that ugly rich dude to marry the 22 year old bikini model. Bad choices don't automatically = "I'm a victim", well at least not a victim of her.

If you're arguing that it happens, I agree with you 100%. If you're arguing that it happens as often as men victimizing women, nothing you've presented here indicates that.
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      09-18-2018, 02:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post

From that same article, however: "46 percent of male victims reported a female perpetrator." So less than half of the male victims talked about had a female perpetrator. Do we think that less than half of female rape victims had a male perpetrator? I'm doubtful.
The point is this: rape happens to men not just woman. Yet have you ever hear of a Male Rape Relief centre? Ever seen someone holding a can asking for change to support a "male victim of rape" foundation?

This points further to the article that some how its unreasonable to have "himpathy".




Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
30% dude. Less than 1/3 of the assailants are women. That's not bolstering your argument.
Why? those 1/3 of boys don't matter and we shouldn't have sympathy? Im picking topics that fly right in the face of perception, and not hiding behind the obscure. The point is when taking into consideration all types of abuse men don't dominate overall.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
Another casualty of our patriarchal society - the legal system automatically assumes the children will be "better off" with the mother.
the legal system automatically sides with woman, not just mothers. My friend pays huge amounts of child support large due to the fact the mom chooses not to work. The courts allow her to make that choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
Further, how many of those cases did the father not fight for custody?
I don't know? maybe a similar number to the amount of men who dated woman that sabotaged their birth control?


Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
I don't know a single person that has been "trapped" into having kids.
Lucky you. I had one friend where the girl lied about taking the pill. He was up front with her about not wanting kids (to which she agreed). She stopped taking the pill got pregnant and then bragged to her friends about it.

I had another friend have a girl pock holes in his condom. Needless to say he puts two drops of Tobasco in his condoms from now on after sex. Apparently he's heard at least one harrowing scream from the bathroom. I dont know if thats true, but the first part is.

https://www.babygaga.com/14-confessi...ir-boyfriends/

https://www.barstoolsports.com/barst...ci-and-jewelry

https://www.thestar.com/life/2017/10...men-ellie.html

https://www.babygaga.com/15-whisper-...contraception/


Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
Sure. It happens to wealthy women, too - although at a much lesser rate, I have to assume.
At what lesser rate would you say? Above you pointed to 30% of abused students being from females as a low number. Do you feel this is 30%? I bet men marry woman for money 5% of the time (if that). No proof, but thats my experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
Nobody forced that ugly rich dude to marry the 22 year old bikini model. Bad choices don't automatically = "I'm a victim", well at least not a victim of her.
Im not talking about those fools the get themself into obvious trouble. Im talking about the ones that don't see it coming.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
If you're arguing that it happens, I agree with you 100%. If you're arguing that it happens as often as men victimizing women, nothing you've presented here indicates that.
Im arguing that men get victimized by woman as much as women get victimized by men but not necessarily in the same way. One sex may dominate in one statistic over another, which some being equal but abuse comes in many forms, and my experience has been woman are just as capibile of abuse in their own way as men.

The overall reaching point is #metoo, "himpathy", pay inequality and the general narrative that woman are the victims and men are the perpetrators is bullshit.

Here is another one for you:

"men receive 63% longer sentences on average than women do," and "[w]omen are…twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted."

https://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinf...sparities.aspx
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      09-18-2018, 02:47 PM   #22
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I'm not going to reply to all of that. I will address a couple of highlights.

- No reasonable person has ever claimed men don't get raped.

- 70% of transgressions is still "dominating".

- Our legal system handing out harsher sentences to men vice women is a product of our judges. You think the majority of judges are men or women?

- I think the idea of "himpathy" is pretty ridiculous and we, as a society, have FAR more pressing issues to address.

You have utterly failed to support your argument that women abusing men happens as much as men abusing women. It might still be true, you just haven't provided any evidence for it.

I'm out.
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