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      07-06-2016, 02:58 PM   #45
SonnyJack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Wow. You really put the spin on what the article ACTUALLY said.
"I would be better suited as SOS or other cabinet position."

Boing boing boing.
My apologies. No spin meant. Didn't get a chance to read the article. I'm currently in full colonoscopy prep mode and getting up every five minutes to shit water is driving me nuts.

This has been my only entertainment today.

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      07-06-2016, 03:28 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
Grim reality when it comes to global stability, then we had to muck it up.
Again for your own interest. Didn't care if a million Iranians and Iraqis died....
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      07-06-2016, 03:30 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyJack View Post
My apologies. No spin meant. Didn't get a chance to read the article. I'm currently in full colonoscopy prep mode and getting up every five minutes to shit water is driving me nuts.

This has been my only entertainment today.

No apologies needed.
You're losing your shit so it's understandable.

I've cancelled mine numerous times. I HAVE to man up and get it over with.
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      07-06-2016, 03:38 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
True, whoever destabilized that region really made a mess of things. The whole you can lead a horse to water thing.

I shouldn't be one to toss stones though, I supported the Iraq War originally under the whole WMD thing.
I think most people missed the point of why we did it......Saddam was pretending he had all that stuff, and he did it convincingly. I was never a big supporter of invading, but I supported the rational. So did Hillary, which was actually big of her. One of the better things she has done. In the end, Saddam succeeded in convincing the world he had the WMD stuff, and his reward was getting his neck stretched. What a dumbass!
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      07-06-2016, 03:39 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by supernoob View Post
Did anybody know that Saddam hussein's wife was Christian?

In a part of the world where there are a great many religions with differing fanatical values a tough and merciless leader is the only avenue to maintain the peace. Pre-desert Storm Iraq was a state that allowed the practice of free religion believe it or not. The only rule was that religion be practiced behind closed doors. Any open outbursts of religious or political intentions would be viciously stamped out in order to maintain the peace. Pre-desert Storm Iraq had electricity and a reasonably modern society.

Desert storm destroyed a tumultuous peace. And the second that the ruling party was overthrown Iraq saw fanatics come in from surrounding countries and while the allies were busy securing the refineries and oil fields the cities saw millions of (infidels) die at the hands of these fanatics. Meaning uncounted millions of Iraqi Christian citizens along with bhudists and Catholics and many other religious sects.

Iraq used to have a predominantly Christian ruling party and had so for thousands of years. It's all gone now. Because of oil.
Thousands of years? Hardly. Modern Iraq was created in 1920. In 1932 its borders were defined by British and gained independence. Before that it was under rule of the persian empire and other ruling facrptions. Take a look at the geography and artificial border lines of countries like Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and such on the world map and you begin to realize that all their borders are almost straight lined and cut. The only country that was never colonized in that area is Iran and you can tell by its irregular border line, meaning every inch of it was fough for.

As for Saddam, like the shah of Iran, both were puppets of west, Britain, US, and once their ambitions got too big and did not listen anymore,,were removed from powe. The conspiracy theorist have come up with some evidence that jimmy Carter facilitated Khomeinis trip to Iran and hence the mess we are in....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iraq
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      07-06-2016, 03:45 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Shiralian View Post
As for Saddam, like the shah of Iran, both were puppets of west, Britain, US, and once their ambitions got too big and did not listen anymore,,were removed from powe. The conspiracy theorist have come up with some evidence that jimmy Carter facilitated Khomeinis trip to Iran and hence the mess we are in....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iraq
Puppet of the west? Do you get all your news from NY Times and Michael Moore? Iraq was more of a Soviet client state till the Soviets went belly up. He was never a western puppet. Look at how Saddam gained power. It was very similar to what Stalin did in the late 20's with the show trials. Try getting your news and history from more than one source.......


ps....I like your cars.....
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      07-06-2016, 03:47 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by VRG_135 View Post
I think most people missed the point of why we did it......Saddam was pretending he had all that stuff, and he did it convincingly. I was never a big supporter of invading, but I supported the rational. So did Hillary, which was actually big of her. One of the better things she has done. In the end, Saddam succeeded in convincing the world he had the WMD stuff, and his reward was getting his neck stretched. What a dumbass!
No I remember, the actual story behind it was cool. He finally admitted the only reason he convinced the world he had WMD's was to keep Iran at bay. He was actually more afraid of Iran than he was of the US. He never thought we'd call his bluff.

The entire story of how the FBI broke him down into admitting all this (without torturing him) was aired years ago on, I think the National Geographic channel. Really interesting stuff with the mind games they played on him. They basically gave the fucker Stockholm Syndrome.
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      07-06-2016, 03:49 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Ali Shiralian View Post
Again for your own interest. Didn't care if a million Iranians and Iraqis died....
Yes, hence the usage of the word "grim".

We also don't care that North Korea commits massive crimes against humanity on a daily basis because they have nothing of strategic value to us or anyone else.
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      07-06-2016, 03:53 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by VRG_135 View Post
Puppet of the west? Do you get all your news from NY Times and Michael Moore? Iraq was more of a Soviet client state till the Soviets went belly up. He was never a western puppet. Look at how Saddam gained power. It was very similar to what Stalin did in the late 20's with the show trials. Try getting your news and history from more than one source.......


ps....I like your cars.....
Thank you for your response. I get my news from various sources and NY times is not one of them. True that Saddam was an ally of the soviets until the Iran, Iraq war happened and lasted eight years. During that time US and Britain and even to some extent the soviets helped Iraq defeat the Iranians which resulted in a combined one million death and no victory was declared by either side just devestation and death. My parent moved to Canada during that time so my father was present for most of the agony. He's one of my resources....

Btw, trying to add a Corvette LT3 to my collection but wife's not having any of it. Trying to be super nice to her so I can sway her towards it
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      07-06-2016, 03:55 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
No Isis, no Al Queda, and no terrorists attacks of any kind under Saddams watch. Same thing can be said for the colonel back in Lybia. The Middle East is packed full of animals and we helped to remove two of the best zoo keepers.
No terrorists in Lybia under the Colonel? Um, have we forgotten Pan Am flight 103 - you know, the one that exploded over Scotland? The one "the Colonel" was convicted of? The one he sponsored? Yeah, he was a saint
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      07-06-2016, 03:56 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
Yes, hence the usage of the word "grim".

We also don't care that North Korea commits massive crimes against humanity on a daily basis because they have nothing of strategic value to us or anyone else.
True, no resources equals no care for human rights...
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      07-06-2016, 03:57 PM   #56
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And now back to our original thread........Yea, Trump really screwed up. Can we call a redo on the GOP nomination process?
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      07-06-2016, 04:07 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VRG_135 View Post
And now back to our original thread........Yea, Trump really screwed up. Can we call a redo on the GOP nomination process?
How about we just do a reset on both nominations? Both the choices this time around suck donkey balls. If there was a viable 3rd party candidate (Johnson probably won't get the 15% he needs to be part of debates - which is a shame), the 3rd party candidate would have a very good chance.
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      07-06-2016, 04:09 PM   #58
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From the NY Times link provided -

Quote:
But Mr. Trump’s recollections of Mr. Hussein’s thwarting terrorism are not grounded in fact. While Mr. Hussein’s interests were not aligned with jihadists, whom Mr. Trump frequently rails against on the campaign trail, Iraq was listed as a state sponsor of terrorism by the State Department before the 2003 invasion.

In the 1980s, Mr. Hussein fired scud missiles at Israel and used chemical weapons on tens of thousands of Iraqis.

The House speaker, Paul D. Ryan, struggled on Tuesday to explain Mr. Trump’s comments in an interview with Fox News’s “The Kelly File.”

“He was one of the 20th century’s most evil people,” Mr. Ryan said of Mr. Hussein, when pressed on Mr. Trump’s remarks. “He was up there. He committed mass genocide against his own people using chemical weapons.”
I guess Trump was just pointing out the good points of Mr. Hussein.
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      07-06-2016, 06:55 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJinCA View Post
No terrorists in Lybia under the Colonel? Um, have we forgotten Pan Am flight 103 - you know, the one that exploded over Scotland? The one "the Colonel" was convicted of? The one he sponsored? Yeah, he was a saint
Yes I am aware of that but ultimately what did removing him accomplish. His command and control apparatus kept Isis and al Queda out of Lybia. Today Lybia is just another Isis gladiator school because it's weak central government is powerless to fight them.

It's called a necessary evil. Last I checked we shook hands with Stalin at Yalta and Tehran.

Last edited by Delta0311; 07-06-2016 at 07:07 PM..
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      07-06-2016, 07:10 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
Yes I am aware of that but ultimately what did removing him accomplish. His command and control apparatus kept Isis and al Queda out of Lybia. Today Lybia is just another Isis gladiator school because it's weak central government is powerless to fight them.
Well, technically we provided support for his ouster, we didn't "take him out" the Lybians did that themselves - remember the whole Arab Spring thing? They found him and killed him, all we did was make sure his army was neutralized. I do agree, the current government there is next to useless to prevent terrorism. It is another shining example of where our intervention has led to chaos, terrorism, and more hatred, not less.
The vast majority of the middle east hates us, not because we are "infidels", but because we are THERE!!!! We would be no different if a foreign country kept sending troops to Kansas, we'd be pretty pissed off.
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      07-06-2016, 09:02 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by PJinCA View Post
Well, technically we provided support for his ouster, we didn't "take him out" the Lybians did that themselves - remember the whole Arab Spring thing? They found him and killed him, all we did was make sure his army was neutralized. I do agree, the current government there is next to useless to prevent terrorism. It is another shining example of where our intervention has led to chaos, terrorism, and more hatred, not less.
The vast majority of the middle east hates us, not because we are "infidels", but because we are THERE!!!! We would be no different if a foreign country kept sending troops to Kansas, we'd be pretty pissed off.
I'm glad someone sees things clearly
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      07-06-2016, 09:48 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Ali Shiralian View Post
I'm glad someone sees things clearly
I do buddy, I served in the military with a Muslim on my team. He was an American, but of Pakistani descent. He was as patriotic an American as there ever was. So I know, it's not Muslims that hate us, ISIS can recruit because we are there and the people of the area don't want us there (rightfully so, they aren't stupid, they know Americans don't give a shit about their lives, we just want the oil)
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      07-06-2016, 09:48 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
No apologies needed.
You're losing your shit so it's understandable.

I've cancelled mine numerous times. I HAVE to man up and get it over with.
Off topic....yes...man up and get it done. I didn't have the luxury of having a routine colonoscopy. Mine was ordered due to symptoms as I was way below the screening age of 50. I woke up from the anesthesia with my GI doctor telling me he found a 3CM mass in my descending colon. The next few days were filled with blood work (CEA test), CT scan, PET scan, liver specialist consult because of 2 3CM lesions found in my liver, and then surgery to take 7" of my colon out.

I was hoping that was it for my nightmare, but it wasn't. The pathology report from the tumor showed 1 lymph node out of 17 taken out had cancer in it which made me Stage 3B. This led me to endure 6 months of FOLFOX6 chemo. Believe me, you would do 100 colonoscopy preps compared to the world of hurt you'll experience dealing with chemo. Now I have to go through reliving the trauma of cancer every 6 months when I have to go back for follow ups to see if I have a recurrence.

So don't put yourself into a situation where you voluntarily cause yourself to have increased risk of cancer due to being scared of dealing with the prep and having a tube shoved up your butt. Sorry about being so blunt but I don't want to sit idly by and see someone who could have done something to prevent dealing with cancer.
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      07-06-2016, 09:51 PM   #64
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Has anyone stopped to think that there might be a distinct possibility that Trumps' intentions all along have been to win the GOP nomination by telling the American populace what they want to hear on such matters as terrorists, illegal immigration, etc., when his one true intention has always been to help throw the election to Hillary Clinton anyways? Not saying that is definitely the case, but I personally find it to be a plausible scenario none the less. The whole time people are questioning how this clown got the nomination, perhaps the real clown(s) are the ones who voted for him in the first place.
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      07-06-2016, 09:59 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by E821M View Post
Has anyone stopped to think that there might be a distinct possibility that Trumps' intentions all along have been to win the GOP nomination by telling the American populace what they want to hear on such matters as terrorists, illegal immigration, etc., when his one true intention has always been to help throw the election to Hillary Clinton anyways? Not saying that is definitely the case, but I personally find it to be a plausible scenario none the less. The whole time people are questioning how this clown got the nomination, perhaps the real clown(s) are the ones who voted for him in the first place.
No the real clown(s) are the career politicians who couldn't deal with this loose cannon and were made fools of. The GOP has no one to blame but themselves (the establishment) for the situation they are in as a party going into the presidential election. I was beside myself when the size of one's hands was brought up as some legitimate talking point. Really?

For the record, I'm no fan of the Republicans or Democrats nor either candidate...talk about being forced to pick from the lesser of two evils.
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      07-06-2016, 10:04 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Shiralian View Post
Thank you for your response. I get my news from various sources and NY times is not one of them. True that Saddam was an ally of the soviets until the Iran, Iraq war happened and lasted eight years. During that time US and Britain and even to some extent the soviets helped Iraq defeat the Iranians which resulted in a combined one million death and no victory was declared by either side just devestation and death. My parent moved to Canada during that time so my father was present for most of the agony. He's one of my resources....

Btw, trying to add a Corvette LT3 to my collection but wife's not having any of it. Trying to be super nice to her so I can sway her towards it
You are mostly right or your dad is and most of the others are under the sleeping gases of US propaganda.
Fact of the matter the US consistently flip flops on its "allies" in order to continue strife in the targeted region to ensure regional instability in areas where it has its stakes (ME=energy)
The US installed a puppet state in Iran which was overthrown. The US supported Saddam Hussein against Iran. The US eventually got rid of Saddam. The US supported the Afghans against the Soviets subsequently took them out after 911. This is not extraordinary as its how the Brit worked playing brother against brother all over their old colonial "empire".
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