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      04-15-2016, 11:43 AM   #45
Fundguy1
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Maybe the Christians should sue Springsteen for not holding a concert. Same thing.
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      04-15-2016, 11:44 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
It's legal tender and must be accepted for a good or service. However it says nothing about requiring the good or service to be offered. In other words, if he bakes the cake, he has to accept cash to pay for it and can't demand to be paid in chickens. But it doesn't say he needs to bake the cake.
The exchange of currency for goods and service is pretty cut and dry but if I'm refusing to serve you then technically there is no exchange happening.

If anyone of you guys ever worked at a club then you know that it's pretty much standard practice to refuse people entry based on any BS criteria. If you show up looking like you got dressed by raiding a Salvation Army bin then you can be refused entry. The ratio is getting fucked up, refuse entry to single guys and groups of guys.
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      04-15-2016, 11:45 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
The exchange of currency for goods and service is pretty cut and dry but if I'm refusing to serve you then technically there is no exchange happening.

If anyone of you guys ever worked at a club then you know that it's pretty much standard practice to refuse people entry based on any BS criteria. If you show up looking like you got dressed by raiding a Salvation Army bin then you can be refused entry. The ratio is getting fucked up, refuse entry to single guys and groups of guys.
Exactly. Maybe I should sue every club who refused me entry. Put each one out of business. How dare they make me go to another club around the corner. That's discrimination.
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      04-15-2016, 11:48 AM   #48
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Wrong:
Legal tender is a medium of payment recognized by a legal system to be valid for meeting a financial obligation. But I don't need to except it as a form of payment.
I can accept chickens or cows or any other form of payment I want.

These discriminatory practices are based on the the Bible, a book of fiction supposedly based on the invisible man in the sky. Keep your beliefs inside your church or your home. The world would be a much better place if people did.
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      04-15-2016, 12:15 PM   #49
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So the courts overturned a popular vote, in multiple states. I think that's called "legislating from the bench."
Wow...... Because something is "popular" doesn't make it legal or right. Back in the day slavery was popular. Do you think slavery is right? Following that era it was popular to discrimate against African Americans. Are you for discriminating against a group of people because of there skin color? The Supreme Court is the ultimate interpreter of the constitution......which happens to be the law of the land here in these United States. So when the Supreme Court rules an act/bill or law as unconstitutional.......... It's unconstitutional whether it's popular or not
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      04-15-2016, 12:27 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Exactly. Maybe I should sue every club who refused me entry. Put each one out of business. How dare they make me go to another club around the corner. That's discrimination.
It would be and could be justified if you could prove that everyone who's been denied entry were of a specific race, sexuality, gender, and/or religion.

If it's strictly based on criteria independent of those factors, like dress code and overall level of sobriety (also common to be denied entry if you're too drunk) then it's fine.
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      04-15-2016, 12:30 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
That's the rub. They aren't taking away anything. The gays can walk 2 blocks and get a cake somewhere else. The Christians can't walk 2 blocks and get their redemption. I'm not religious in any way. I've been for gay equality for decades. I'm from NYC area. But I live by the principle of do what you want, I'll do what I want. Don't try to tell me what to do and I won't tell you what to do. So in this case, forcing someone to do something they feel goes against their core religious beliefs when you can go 1 block over to get it done instead is draconian. It's as bad as saying you can't be gay to a gay person unless you loose your job and business. That's the difference. People who are against this law are being far more discriminatory against one group for their beliefs than protecting another. Since when has the government been in the business of deciding which beliefs are correct and which arent? What's next? Forcing everyone to be vegan? It's a slippery slope. And in this case it is specifically spelled out in the first ammendment that freedom of practicing your religion is protected. Your sexual preferences are not.

Again, forcing the baker to make a cake when there are other bakers who can do it is vindictive and forcing someone to validate something they don't believe in. There's no other reason to do it. It's gay bullying. And it's not right.
Gotta hand it to you, Fundy, you nailed this one.

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Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
That'd be easy if this law only applied to bakers. What if the only dealership in town refuses service because you're gay? What about when your favorite restaurant begins to refuse service to you and your SO? Tell them to just cook at home? Personally I'd rather not give companies like that any of my business but it's a complicated situation.
Honestly, that's the way these situations should be handled. Social media spreads like wildfire now - vote with your wallets. If a business is doing something that you believe is wrong (albeit not explicitly illegal), then spread the word and let them go bankrupt. If the society won't support them then they go away - but, if the society does support them then perhaps the issue isn't as cut-and-dry as you think. Live and let live.
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      04-15-2016, 12:37 PM   #52
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Damn, just took em to school with that one..

Just a quick FYI people. No where in the Constitution does it say anything about "separation of church and state". The first amendment guarantees your the right to practice your religion and that the state will no trample on your rights to do so or try to pick one religion over the other.

Your correct...... No where in the constitution does it state those words. But agin I make the argument that the Supreme Court is the ultimate interpreter of the constitution. This means that while the term “separation of Church and State” may never appear in the constitution itself, the Court ruling in the case of Everson v. Board of Education stated “the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect ‘a wall of separation between Church and State.’”

Some of you cannot see the ramifications of these laws. They have far reaching implications than just anti LGBT. Some focus on the baker that doesn't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding and state that the gay couple can just go to the next baker. They may decide to not make a cake for a male and female couple because they had premarital sex or because they are an interatial couple. These laws affect every aspect of any one individual. Not just for cake. They can be denied employment or get fired, denied housing, denied child care just because an individual's religious beliefs don't align with that individuals lifestyle, view or choices. Imagine if you were denied housing, child care, got fired from your job just simply because your views, lifestyle or choices did not align with the "popular" vote. Would you just go to the next baker, simply seek out another job, go to the next child care provider or to the next rental property available. What if the next one has the same views and the next and the next? 70% of the US is Christian. Should an individual be forced to seek out the the percentage that's not religious to get basic needs fulfilled? No think not. Constitution states that all men are created equal. Not all men Rre created equal.......unless you don't fall within a popular group.
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      04-15-2016, 12:51 PM   #53
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Ah religion and the law. Fun topics. I think the US should embrace Mormon culture, it'd solve all this nonsense about forcing religious views (or alternately, religion-based morals) legislatively. They do there thing with religion but if you don't believe, hey that's cool too, we can still be friends (alcohol laws here notwithstanding).
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      04-15-2016, 12:54 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Or, people are upset because the courts decided to overturn a popular vote. You are jumping to the conclusion that this is religiously motivated, while the motivation of the courts is "pure." I would certainly disagree.

And what does this have to do with pervs using the wrong bathroom or locker room? Perhaps hate and judgement for the beliefs of others (the beliefs that created our current society), are blinding some people to simple reason and fact.
Everything the republican's do is religiously motivated. Its the reason i left the party. And it's so very ironic that the party of small govt who wants to privatize social security, get rid of the EPA and IRS, etc also wants to regulate every aspect of people's sex lives. Hipocrysy at its finest. They won't spend money on social programs or imortant regulations but will stop at nothing to monitor and regulate what we do with our pee pees and who ha's.
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      04-15-2016, 12:57 PM   #55
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It is amazing how the obvious republicans on this site all have the exact same feelings about all the issues we discuss. Do any of you have a thought that doesn't tow the company line? Or are you just all in no matter how crazy these fuckers become?
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      04-15-2016, 01:00 PM   #56
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It is amazing how the obvious republicans on this site all have the exact same feelings about all the issues we discuss. Do any of you have a thought that doesn't tow the company line? Or are you just all in no matter how crazy these fuckers become?
Two words.......... Fox News.
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      04-15-2016, 01:00 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbrock22 View Post
Wrong:
Legal tender is a medium of payment recognized by a legal system to be valid for meeting a financial obligation. But I don't need to except it as a form of payment.
I can accept chickens or cows or any other form of payment I want.

These discriminatory practices are based on the the Bible, a book of fiction supposedly based on the invisible man in the sky. Keep your beliefs inside your church or your home. The world would be a much better place if people did.
I guess you don't read well.
I agree 100% with you and stated that.
But also, the discrimination is against the gay and the Christian. And I agreed with you on the legal tender. The law says you can't REFUSE cash and demand chickens INSTEAD. My point was that you can't demand a service be provided by the provisions of this law.

I'm not a church guy and not siding with them for believing their religious beliefs. I'm just defending their right to them that is constitutionally protected as is your right to not read my posts and reply ignorantly as a result. Keep your gayness in private as I keep my straight preferences and the world will be a better place.
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      04-15-2016, 01:03 PM   #58
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I'm not a church guy
Nope you're a fund guy (1).

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      04-15-2016, 01:12 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Doc Oc View Post
Everything the republican's do is religiously motivated. Its the reason i left the party. And it's so very ironic that the party of small govt who wants to privatize social security, get rid of the EPA and IRS, etc also wants to regulate every aspect of people's sex lives. Hipocrysy at its finest. They won't spend money on social programs or imortant regulations but will stop at nothing to monitor and regulate what we do with our pee pees and who ha's.
I don't see that at all. I'm republican and zero religious. Youre also way off in your factoids following liberal myths designed to secure votes through fear mongering.
Republican party stances
1. Don't want to privatize social security. I think what you are referring to is the personal savings account where like in an Ira you would have the option to participate, and then be able to invest a small portion of your ss money like in a 401k or Ira instead of stupidly have the government effectively steal it from you and invest it in sometime against your will that will return you multiple times less over your lifetime.
2 EPA was created by republicans but has morphed into a liberal tool for bashing whoever they deem worthy
3 IRS is unnecessary and is also now a similar tool.
4 zero sex regulation except to shelter kids from any lifestyle until they mature. I don't see a problem there.
5 republicans offer high paying jobs. Democrats low paying handouts
6 most regulations passed were for votes not for protection or healing the economy. In fact, they did the opposite greatly.
7 if you got man junk, man room. Girl junk, girl room. If that's to confusing, find a tree.
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      04-15-2016, 01:13 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by eflatminor View Post
Thinking about Mr Springsteen, Bryan Adams and other performers cancelling their concerts and refusing to provide service to the public...because of their opposition to a law that allows people to refuse service to the public.

The irony is...overwhelming.
Mr Springsteen is not providing a service. Oy...
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      04-15-2016, 01:13 PM   #61
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Nope you're a fund guy (1).

As in I'm in the mutual fund industry.
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      04-15-2016, 01:14 PM   #62
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It is amazing how the obvious republicans on this site all have the exact same feelings about all the issues we discuss. Do any of you have a thought that doesn't tow the company line? Or are you just all in no matter how crazy these fuckers become?
Actually my thought about democrats for 2 decades.
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      04-15-2016, 01:14 PM   #63
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Its mother nature who is against gays
How so?
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      04-15-2016, 01:16 PM   #64
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I guess cause nature designed the parts to fit a specific way. But honestly who cares how you want to fit your parts. The official republican stance is they don't.
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      04-15-2016, 01:19 PM   #65
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I believe it goes something like liberty and justice for all....
That's a pledge, it should not mean anything to Christians since the bible clearly states to now pledge allegiance to anyone except God.
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      04-15-2016, 01:21 PM   #66
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Exactly. When did for all exclude Christians or put them in back of the line behind gays? This is discrimination against religion vs lifestyle. However it's far easier for a gay to go to another vendor than a Christian to close their business.
When you learn that being gay is not a lifestyle then you will understand. I could say the same shit about a religion... Christianity these days is more of a lifestyle than homosexuality.
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