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      02-11-2020, 03:14 PM   #67
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      02-12-2020, 09:07 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desibaba View Post
I have spent about a decade in the car business and even if you are going with the more "reliable" brands like lexus you are almost always better off leasing 99 percent of the time. New car every 3 years, always under warranty, no worry of depreciation if its in an accident, etc. In my store more than 95 percent of new car deals are leases.
My cost per mile begs to differ. Depreciation is a bitch.
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      02-14-2020, 06:55 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by bucketfoot View Post
I like a lot of his stuff, but he thinks of cars as appliances and bases all of his judgement on the ability of a car to last 200-300K miles or more.
This is Kilmer in a nutshell. Some people like to have fun with their cars.
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      02-20-2020, 10:29 AM   #70
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Two Thoughts

1. BMW realized they put the N54 into two many models, and brought out the N55. 2. Anyone who buys a used BMW with no research is asking for trouble.
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      02-20-2020, 10:52 AM   #71
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There's no magic in Toyota's reliability. They have been using largely the same drivetrains for decades. The recently retired MZ engine dates back to the early 90's and the current GR engine used in most Toyotas and Lexus vehicles dates back to 2002. If BMW kept offering vehicles with the same engines they did 15-20 years ago they would be out of business today as buyers of this class expect the latest and greatest in powerplants.
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      02-20-2020, 11:41 AM   #72
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Have no interest in clicking it with the link.

Funny thing is that many people who bought an old poor person's BMW has seen some slight increase in their car's value, haha.

But I do get the point that some people try to floss by buying a BMW when they have no business buying one as the upkeep costs are a bit more than a 1995 Toyota Tercel or Corolla.

I think I need to find a grandma owned Corolla.
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      02-20-2020, 11:55 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
There's no magic in Toyota's reliability. They have been using largely the same drivetrains for decades. The recently retired MZ engine dates back to the early 90's and the current GR engine used in most Toyotas and Lexus vehicles dates back to 2002. If BMW kept offering vehicles with the same engines they did 15-20 years ago they would be out of business today as buyers of this class expect the latest and greatest in powerplants.
There are two books 1) The Machine That Changed the World
and 2) Notes From Toyota-land

Both these book support and refute your statement. It's complicated.
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      02-20-2020, 12:00 PM   #74
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I mean, the biggest issue with BMWs are shitty gaskets/seals causing oil leaks. If they can fix that then maintenance costs would go down. The easy solution of course is to carry an extra quart of oil and ignore the leaks, as most (not all [stupid OFHG leaking onto belts]) won't cause major immediate issues.
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      02-21-2020, 04:41 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtla1 View Post
I mean, the biggest issue with BMWs are shitty gaskets/seals causing oil leaks. If they can fix that then maintenance costs would go down. The easy solution of course is to carry an extra quart of oil and ignore the leaks, as most (not all [stupid OFHG leaking onto belts]) won't cause major immediate issues.
True. However on the N55 an OFHG leak can cause the belt to slip and get ingested into the engine by way of the front seal.
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      02-21-2020, 04:47 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
True. However on the N55 an OFHG leak can cause the belt to slip and get ingested into the engine by way of the front seal.
I can't tell if you're making fun of the reddit meme were people just repeat what someone said over and over, or you truly did not see that I said exactly what you replied?
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      02-22-2020, 10:48 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtla1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
True. However on the N55 an OFHG leak can cause the belt to slip and get ingested into the engine by way of the front seal.
I can't tell if you're making fun of the reddit meme were people just repeat what someone said over and over, or you truly did not see that I said exactly what you replied?
I apparently missed your context. I didn't see where you mentioned how a leak onto the belt could cause a major issue.
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      02-22-2020, 11:06 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
There's no magic in Toyota's reliability. They have been using largely the same drivetrains for decades. The recently retired MZ engine dates back to the early 90's and the current GR engine used in most Toyotas and Lexus vehicles dates back to 2002. If BMW kept offering vehicles with the same engines they did 15-20 years ago they would be out of business today as buyers of this class expect the latest and greatest in powerplants.
The Toyota/Lexus engines also typically have a much lower specific output than BMW engines, and are mostly NA. Increases in specific output bring added complexity - like forced induction - and complexity means more things that can malfunction and wear out.

I have a 5hp Briggs and Stratton engine on my log splitter that's over 20 years old and has many thousands of hours on it. It's so simple that there's not much that can go wrong. But if you tried to scale it up and power a car with it, it'd be the biggest, heaviest, smokiest POS car engine in the last 75 years. My point is, durability comes at a cost. That cost is, the fun you can have driving it.
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      02-22-2020, 11:13 AM   #79
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I absolutely detest that Scotty guy. Such a f@cking bell end
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      02-22-2020, 03:48 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
There's no magic in Toyota's reliability. They have been using largely the same drivetrains for decades. The recently retired MZ engine dates back to the early 90's and the current GR engine used in most Toyotas and Lexus vehicles dates back to 2002. If BMW kept offering vehicles with the same engines they did 15-20 years ago they would be out of business today as buyers of this class expect the latest and greatest in powerplants.
Toyota's quality distinction didn't just happen yesterday, it's been decades... when those engines were new. There goes your magic.

Toyota puts a lot of emphasis on quality, it's ingrained in their culture. In developing the Z4/Supra, it was reported that BMW was surprised at how extensive Toyota's quality controls were, taking every bit down to a fastener or rivet and put it through stringent quality control.

Thus, while it's true that longevity makes for more opportunities for better quality, that alone doesn't nearly explain it. It's not that simple.
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      02-23-2020, 09:08 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoma View Post
Toyota's quality distinction didn't just happen yesterday, it's been decades... when those engines were new. There goes your magic.

Toyota puts a lot of emphasis on quality, it's ingrained in their culture. In developing the Z4/Supra, it was reported that BMW was surprised at how extensive Toyota's quality controls were, taking every bit down to a fastener or rivet and put it through stringent quality control.

Thus, while it's true that longevity makes for more opportunities for better quality, that alone doesn't nearly explain it. It's not that simple.
I agree. And Toyota's luxury line, Lexus, has done just fine against the Germans. I don't have the 2019 sales figures but for 2018 Lexus was just behind BMW and MB and ahead of Audi.

While Lexus has not been my cup of tea, it has held its own.
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