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      02-27-2020, 05:01 AM   #705
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Originally Posted by pennsiveguy View Post
I've said it before but it's worth saying again. I'm so thankful that you and a whole bunch of other smart and conscientious and hard-working folks are willing to go out on the streets and try to keep order.... You hear bullshit stories (my bolding, Littlebear) one after the other all day long, from people who are their own worst enemies....Thank you.
That's all good & true, & most folks agree with that. But people with jobs of high consequence should perform at a high level, not like thugs waiting for lunch break. Sort of like when I worked in an emergency room vs when I worked in advertising (where we were expected to have a hangover in the morning!). You have to know the difference.

Riding my bike to Prospect park, I crossed at a red light to wait in the bike lane. A van came zooming up in the bike lane, hit me, & as I was getting up & yelling at him, he booked. I & others got a plate #.
Not being hurt, but with a broken bike, I went to the police station the next morn to file a complaint. They wouldn't take it.
"Why did you wait? Why didn't you call from the site?"
"I have no cell phone"
"You have to go home & wait for the officer to come & take your complaint"

Needless to say, no cop ever came to my house to take the complaint.

Murf

PS: I've never been arrested. But I do have more stories, no bullshit.

Murf
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Last edited by Littlebear; 02-27-2020 at 05:11 AM..
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      02-27-2020, 06:21 AM   #706
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Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
There is no hard and fast rule for lights and siren. The roof lights are often used on their own. I'd often run at above the speed limit without either as they could sometimes cause more problems then they solve.....

Folk, I know you all think you have it figured out, but it's not black and white (couldn't help myself), when you're driving along and see the police doing something, anything it may have nothing to do with you and what you're doing, the cops might notice you but you are nothing more than another car on the road to be avoided while they are getting to where they are going.

Just for perspective. You get stopped and charged with a minor moving or equipment violation. I get that has an impact on you and you might be bothered or affected by it for sometime, hours, days weeks....hell I've had people come up to me at a party when they find out I was a cop and complain about a ticket they got in the 80's and did I think the cop should've charged them. About 99% of the time, when the cop hands you the ticket and send you on your way he has stopped thinking about you by the time he gets back to the scout car.....he's likely thinking about what he's going to get for lunch.....
Not sure how this is relevant to the current conversation. I am in no way bashing law enforcement but in any occupation there will always be good and bad workers.

Hypothetical...cop t bones me at an intersection as he is cruising over the speed limit on the wrong side of road going towards oncoming traffic.

Who's at fault?
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      02-27-2020, 06:32 AM   #707
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Originally Posted by chetman7 View Post
Not sure how this is relevant to the current conversation. I am in no way bashing law enforcement but in any occupation there will always be good and bad workers.

Hypothetical...cop t bones me at an intersection as he is cruising over the speed limit on the wrong side of road going towards oncoming traffic.

Who's at fault?
The Police are governed by the rules of the road the same as every other vehicle and driver on the road. They have some exemption with respect to red lights and speeding, but they are also required to do so safely. So here in Ontario Police, Fire and EMS can go through a red light, but only after they stop and proceed when it's safe to do so, they can also drive in access of the speed limit. If the police are involved in a collision they are investigated and all of those rules are applied, or ought to be. When I worked in Toronto, the number of collisions that involved scout cars would shock you....most not the officers faults but often they were. On average, every single marked car was involved in a collision every year.

They are on the road 24/7/365 and are likely driven about 50-60,000 kilometres a year.
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      02-27-2020, 08:51 AM   #708
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Sirs,

1)When is a cop allowed to speed?
2)When is a cop not allowed to speed?
3)Do cops off duty follow speed limits like wot other drivers do?
4)Do cops ever get speeding tickets?

TIA! Murf
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      02-27-2020, 09:12 AM   #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlebear View Post
Sirs,

1)When is a cop allowed to speed?
2)When is a cop not allowed to speed?
3)Do cops off duty follow speed limits like wot other drivers do?
4)Do cops ever get speeding tickets?

TIA! Murf
1) When it is reasonable and prudent.
2) When it is not reasonable and prudent.
3) I can't speak to that, but I do about 80% of the time. In other words, I speed about as much as I did as a civilian.
4) Yes, but rarely!
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      02-27-2020, 09:36 AM   #710
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
1)
4) Yes, but rarely!
I can attest to that. I have a friend who is in the police service and even his wife got off from a speeding ticket when she told the officer who pulled her over that she was married to another officer in a different town. He just grumbled a little and said she should have told him right away (this was as he was writing the ticket) and said he doesn't dummy their own, so she was free to go.

Also, my brother got off (when I think he shouldn't have) down an empty road where he didn't realize the speed limit changed from 80 to 60 (again, this is km/h, not mph)...not that it mattered much because he was traveling at 140, so he got pulled over for a *discussion* about violating the speed limit in excess of 80km/h.

But he has his military badge affixed in his wallet so when he opens his wallet to hand over his license it is obvious to the officer, so the officer just asked him a few questions to ID him and then let him go. Seriously lucky he ran into that officer.

Others would have given him some sort of ticket I'd think. And it would have been justly deserved too.
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      02-27-2020, 09:37 AM   #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
1) When it is reasonable and prudent.
2) When it is not reasonable and prudent.
3) I can't speak to that, but I do about 80% of the time. In other words, I speed about as much as I did as a civilian.
4) Yes, but rarely!
Answer #1 never works for me.

Folks, I realize my main argument is with the pols & other bosses of the cops.
How many drivers speed? How many of them are suicidal, or even negligent?

Murf
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      02-27-2020, 09:38 AM   #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
1)
4) Yes, but rarely!
I can attest to that. I have a friend who is in the police service and even his wife got off from a speeding ticket when she told the officer who pulled her over that she was married to another officer in a different town. He just grumbled a little and said she should have told him right away (this was as he was writing the ticket) and said he doesn't dummy their own, so she was free to go.

Also, my brother got off (when I think he shouldn't have) down an empty road where he didn't realize the speed limit changed from 80 to 60 (again, this is km/h, not mph)...not that it mattered much because he was traveling at 140, so he got pulled over for a *discussion* about violating the speed limit in excess of 80km/h.

But he has his military badge affixed in his wallet so when he opens his wallet to hand over his license it is obvious to the officer, so the officer just asked him a few questions to ID him and then let him go. Seriously lucky he ran into that officer.

Others would have given him some sort of ticket I'd think. And it would have been justly deserved too.
Medical personnel (...nurses, doctors, etc.), legal personnel, and military personnel often get a pass.
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      02-27-2020, 09:39 AM   #713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlebear View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
1) When it is reasonable and prudent.
2) When it is not reasonable and prudent.
3) I can't speak to that, but I do about 80% of the time. In other words, I speed about as much as I did as a civilian.
4) Yes, but rarely!
Answer #1 never works for me.

Folks, I realize my main argument is with the pols & other bosses of the cops.
How many drivers speed? How many of them are suicidal, or even negligent?

Murf
It doesn't need to work for YOU, and until you work this job you'll never get it. It's what the law grants us (...CVC 21055, among other exemptions).
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      02-27-2020, 09:48 AM   #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Medical personnel (...nurses, doctors, etc.), legal personnel, and military personnel often get a pass.
Yes...often. My wife is a surgeon and rarely gets a pass. Though I think that's often because she doesn't state she's a doctor. And frankly, she won't, unless she legitimately was on her way to the hospital...otherwise, she doesn't see how she can play the doctor card if she was just on her way to get groceries or something like that.

It is a constant source of amusement to me, for she has got to have at least twice the amount of speeding tickets that I do, yet I speed far more often and far faster than she normally does.

I just happen to do it where I feel like there will be no officers waiting and I'm not weaving in and out or drawing any other attention to myself other than my speed and I'm watching a good distance down the road, not that I think I can beat radar, but I don't think it hurts to be aware either. She thinks I'm the luckiest SOB there is when it comes to speeding and not getting caught...and I admit I am pretty fortunate.
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      02-27-2020, 10:09 AM   #715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
It doesn't need to work for YOU, and until you work this job you'll never get it. It's what the law grants us (...CVC 21055, among other exemptions).
Oh, I get it alright. What's not to get?
And many towns up & down the Taconic parkway "get it" too.
But is that exemption valid when you are off duty? When not responding to a call?

Murf
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      02-27-2020, 10:11 AM   #716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlebear View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
It doesn't need to work for YOU, and until you work this job you'll never get it. It's what the law grants us (...CVC 21055, among other exemptions).
Oh, I get it. What's not to get?

Murf
You're the one who stated that answer #1 doesn't work for you. I assumed that to mean that it isn't a satisfactory enough answer, hence my response. If I misinterpreted your statement I apologize.
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      02-27-2020, 10:15 AM   #717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
You're the one who stated that answer #1 doesn't work for you. I assumed that to mean that it isn't a satisfactory enough answer, hence my response. If I misinterpreted your statement I apologize.
Just looking for a little elaboration of the finer points!

Murf
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      02-27-2020, 10:17 AM   #718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlebear View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
It doesn't need to work for YOU, and until you work this job you'll never get it. It's what the law grants us (...CVC 21055, among other exemptions).
Oh, I get it alright. What's not to get?
And many towns up & down the Taconic parkway "get it" too.
But is that exemption valid when you are off duty? When not responding to a call?

Murf
The exemption is on-duty and when operating an authorized emergency vehicle.


P.S. We are always responding to a call if we're not hunting. Calls are deemed emergent or priority; emergent calls we tend to quickly and response time needs to be short.
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      02-27-2020, 10:18 AM   #719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chetman7 View Post
Not sure how this is relevant to the current conversation. I am in no way bashing law enforcement but in any occupation there will always be good and bad workers.

Hypothetical...cop t bones me at an intersection as he is cruising over the speed limit on the wrong side of road going towards oncoming traffic.

Who's at fault?
Generally it would depend on the local laws however if we use Ontario Canada as an example, the cop would be at fault. There are other factors that have to be considered but the scenario you used is pretty straight forward - wrong side of the road/oncoming traffic. I would say he's at fault. Even if I am missing something, there is still a lot of contributory negligence on the officer's part.

Generally, the first things to determine when dealing with a collision involving an emergency vehicle is the type of intersection if applicable, and whether the vehicle had their lights and/or siren on.
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      02-27-2020, 10:19 AM   #720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
You're the one who stated that answer #1 doesn't work for you. I assumed that to mean that it isn't a satisfactory enough answer, hence my response. If I misinterpreted your statement I apologize.
When you are in lawful execution of your duty you have an exemption from the speed limit. Are you allowed to speed off duty, technically the speed limit is the law, so no. Does Littlebear speed, I'll bet he does as I've never met anyone who doesn't. You risk the consequences as do police officer who are off duty. I suspect he doesn't want to hear this though, he clearly has a bias and nothing anyone says is going to change that.

I'm sure he'd like it if I showed up to his work, watched him do his job for 5 minutes and then began levelling criticism at him and everyone else in his profession. Just sayin'.
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      02-27-2020, 10:22 AM   #721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
You're the one who stated that answer #1 doesn't work for you. I assumed that to mean that it isn't a satisfactory enough answer, hence my response. If I misinterpreted your statement I apologize.
When you are in lawful execution of your duty you have an exemption from the speed limit. Are you allowed to speed off duty, technically the speed limit is the law, so no. Does Littlebear speed, I'll bet he does as I've never met anyone who doesn't. You risk the consequences as do police officer who are off duty. I suspect he doesn't want to hear this though, he clearly has a bias and nothing anyone says is going to change that.

I'm sure he'd like it if I showed up to his work, watched him do his job for 5 minutes and then began levelling criticism at him and everyone else in his profession. Just sayin'.
I sense a strong bias too. It would seem that he just has a bit of disdain for those in our profession.
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      02-27-2020, 10:22 AM   #722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
I can attest to that. I have a friend who is in the police service and even his wife got off from a speeding ticket when she told the officer who pulled her over that she was married to another officer in a different town. He just grumbled a little and said she should have told him right away (this was as he was writing the ticket) and said he doesn't dummy their own, so she was free to go.

Also, my brother got off (when I think he shouldn't have) down an empty road where he didn't realize the speed limit changed from 80 to 60 (again, this is km/h, not mph)...not that it mattered much because he was traveling at 140, so he got pulled over for a *discussion* about violating the speed limit in excess of 80km/h.

But he has his military badge affixed in his wallet so when he opens his wallet to hand over his license it is obvious to the officer, so the officer just asked him a few questions to ID him and then let him go. Seriously lucky he ran into that officer.

Others would have given him some sort of ticket I'd think. And it would have been justly deserved too.

I have lost track of the amount of times that my friends who serve used their military id to avoid traffic tickets. They just hand it over along with their license, ownership, and insurance.
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      02-27-2020, 10:27 AM   #723
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I sense a strong bias too. It would seem that he just has a bit of disdain for those in our profession.
The fact is that most interactions with the police are probably a negative experience, you're the victim of a property crime or violence or you're the accused.....all around you don't generally see the police during the good times....some people seem to think it's personally the fault of the copper who is just doing the job.

The customer is always wrong.
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      02-27-2020, 10:27 AM   #724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
When you are in lawful execution of your duty you have an exemption from the speed limit. Are you allowed to speed off duty, technically the speed limit is the law, so no. Does Littlebear speed, I'll bet he does as I've never met anyone who doesn't. You risk the consequences as do police officer who are off duty. I suspect he doesn't want to hear this though, he clearly has a bias and nothing anyone says is going to change that.

I'm sure he'd like it if I showed up to his work, watched him do his job for 5 minutes and then began levelling criticism at him and everyone else in his profession. Just sayin'.
When does public safety supercede the execution of duty? Does it depend on what the officer is engaged in at the time?

I'm genuinely curious as I seem to get different answers.
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      02-27-2020, 10:28 AM   #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
Are you allowed to speed off duty, technically the speed limit is the law, so no. Does Littlebear speed, I'll bet he does as I've never met anyone who doesn't. I suspect he doesn't want to hear this though, he clearly has a bias and nothing anyone says is going to change that.

I'm sure he'd like it if I showed up to his work, watched him do his job for 5 minutes and then began levelling criticism at him and everyone else in his profession. Just sayin'.
Just looking for equal protections under the law.
Do you really think that I haven't had criticism at my (private industry) jobs? We all deal....

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      02-27-2020, 10:31 AM   #726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xander_g View Post
When does public safety supercede the execution of duty? Does it depend on what the officer is engaged in at the time?

I'm genuinely curious as I seem to get different answers.
Road and weather conditions are always a factor and the decision to exceed the speed limit and how fast you should go are up to the discretion of the officer. Some feel more confident in their ability to operate a scout car at higher speeds. The officer is responsible for his actions.

For an example, high speed chases are governed by very strict pursuit guidelines, and are often called off when there is a risk to public safety, that included the client who is being pursued.
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