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      02-01-2020, 11:12 PM   #199
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So....is the consensus that the x35i's engine has a fair amount of turbo lag, or is it do to with throttle delay (or both)?

Reviews I'm reading make mention of the turbo lag affecting take off from dead stop.

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      02-02-2020, 11:58 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satz View Post
Or is it something that's only in DCT and Auto gearboxes?

I know it was just as bad on my old Auto 335i
On my 2011 335i Auto 6spd (E90 N55 w/Power Kit), I had NO throttle lag and the throttle was VERY responsive. When I went to my 2013 335is DCT 7spd (E92 N54T), the first thing I noticed was the turbo/throttle lag and that the throttle was much less responsive. I noticed the exact same throttle lag in the X2 M35i, but that the throttle was very "sensitive".

Now this was in the "normal" Drive modes. In M/S & Sport Mode on in the 335is, it is a completely different, like an animal in a cage trying to get out and attack something.
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      02-03-2020, 12:33 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by satz View Post
So....is the consensus that the x35i's engine has a fair amount of turbo lag, or is it do to with throttle delay (or both)?

Reviews I'm reading make mention of the turbo lag affecting take off from dead stop.

cheers
Most definitely definitely NOT TURBO LAG. Those terms can be confused, but they are completely different.
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      02-05-2020, 03:59 AM   #202
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Finally test drove an M35i today... considering it as a replacement for my 20si X2.

I thought the throttle/turbo 'lag' on my 2.0si was bad, till I drove the m35i. It's outrageously bad, maybe a full second or so before any real forward movement.
Slightly better in 'sport' mode, but not much. I was driving with the dealership 'Genius' who admitted this lag, though he said it's not turbo lag, but the transmission/throttle. Thinks it might be to protect the gearbox from getting high torque levels straight away?

Anyway...also found the ride very, very bumpy

It was fast when accelerating at speed though...and the exhaust sounded good!

Not sure it is the long term car for me though in the long term and as a daily driver, esp on our Australian roads. I need comfort plus performance....

By, the way, I can't remember if the BMS pedal tuner really did help m35i owners reduce the initial acceleration delay? I still have mine that I took out of the old X2 before it got taken away (after the hail storm damage)
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      02-05-2020, 07:44 AM   #203
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The BMS solved it for me in Sport mode. Super racey twitchy the way I like it. No lag.
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      02-05-2020, 02:08 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satz View Post
Finally test drove an M35i today... considering it as a replacement for my 20si X2.

I thought the throttle/turbo 'lag' on my 2.0si was bad, till I drove the m35i. It's outrageously bad, maybe a full second or so before any real forward movement.
Slightly better in 'sport' mode, but not much. I was driving with the dealership 'Genius' who admitted this lag, though he said it's not turbo lag, but the transmission/throttle. Thinks it might be to protect the gearbox from getting high torque levels straight away?

Anyway...also found the ride very, very bumpy

It was fast when accelerating at speed though...and the exhaust sounded good!

Not sure it is the long term car for me though in the long term and as a daily driver, esp on our Australian roads. I need comfort plus performance....

By, the way, I can't remember if the BMS pedal tuner really did help m35i owners reduce the initial acceleration delay? I still have mine that I took out of the old X2 before it got taken away (after the hail storm damage)
There should be zero lag (throttle or otherwise) when in sport mode. I measured it the other day and actually got negative values.

The bumpy ride can be mitigated with 18" wheels.

I smell major league bullshit with regards to the 'need for throttle lag'.

Otherwise, don't know what else to say but good luck on finding your next car.
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      02-05-2020, 11:17 PM   #205
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I just might be able to get the demonstrator X2 M35i through insurance instead of a replacement X2 2.0i because it will otherwise take 5 months to get my build here (because of the options I like).

So it is tempting to get the M35i if this option arises, given its performance (and cost compared to the normal X2) esp as downunder the X2 2.0i is only 140kW/280Nm

.. maybe I should go for another drive...
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      02-06-2020, 08:07 AM   #206
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I love my M35, I also don't experience anywhere near the throttle lag that everyone reports. Yes I drive mostly in sport. I also don't stomp on the gas at every opportunity, even when I need to go I ease into the throttle and take right off. Never had a close call or near miss because the car wasn't moving when I needed it to. I also experienced a slight lag with my 2013 335 which was a manual. Good luck with the search.
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      02-06-2020, 09:42 AM   #207
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If you study this entire thread carefully, you will see that the issue is real and ongoing. Yes, we have all gotten better at anticipating and adjusting our driving techniques to minimize the impact, but it's clearly an issue. I continue to believe that reprogramming the transmission to better align with the various driving modes would alleviate much of the problem, but I don't know if this creates new issues or if BMW even cares enough to pursue it for us nitpickers. Now that I've had the car for a while, I have to say this is the ONLY issue I have. I wouldn't mind a rear-bias drivetrain like my first gen X1, but whatever. I love this car, period. However, if BMW found a way to update the ECU and help solve this problem, then I would love them a little more too...
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      02-06-2020, 03:21 PM   #208
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I donít deny that itís real, I just think that some people are more sensitive to it. I spent 3 years in an x1 so I was used to it. It honestly didnít bother me much in it either.
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      02-06-2020, 03:22 PM   #209
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Thanks guys. I've never understood why BMW program this lag into their cars.
It often gets me on my previous X2 nonM35i (and on my previous E90 335i), when I try to merge into traffic...maybe even more than when getting off the mark.

I'd pay good money to some after-market tuner who could just get rid of this. The BMS pedal tuner did help in some situations, but not all.

My hesitation with considering the M35i is the bumpiness, even on highways (which I know could be remedied through smaller wheels/ larger sidewalls) but that would kinda defeat the looks of the car

And this particular M35i is alpine white (non metallic)... But does have the camera based cruise control, and black leather and Harman Kardon stereo (all must-haves for me).
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      02-06-2020, 05:12 PM   #210
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      02-08-2020, 04:41 PM   #211
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During my research for an X3 to possibly replace my X2, the lag issue raises its ugly head. In exactly the same circumstances, ie. from dead stop, and accelerating from crawl (eg merging or turning into an intersection)...

Haven't driven one yet, but given that the petrol is a 2litre turbo related to the one in the X2, I expect to get the same lag...
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      02-09-2020, 01:07 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billnchristy View Post
I donít deny that itís real, I just think that some people are more sensitive to it. I spent 3 years in an x1 so I was used to it. It honestly didnít bother me much in it either.
I would add that I think sometimes we forget here that weíre dealing with extremely high-strung turbocharged engines. Has anybody ever driven any old time turbocharged cars where nothing would really happen until about 3,000 rpm, and then you would get a explosive burst of power? Talking about adjusting oneís driving style...
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      02-09-2020, 06:50 PM   #213
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Hi Fierro, that's kind true, but, for example downunder the X2 20i only makes 141kW so it's not anywhere near being highly-strung. (My 1994 NIssan 2 litre turbo made that output...and even then that wasn't pushing it!)

Yes these new Bimmer's aren't as bad as really old turbos...I remember the old Saab 900 turbo was very laggy...and didn't really deliver all that much when it came 'on boost'

I can't see any excuse/reason for BMW's having this engineered delay in their response.
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      02-21-2020, 08:05 AM   #214
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The March/April edition of Road & Track has an article titled "Why your fast car is slower than you think." They specifically picked out the X2 M35i and compared it against a Mustang Bullitt. In their testing the M35i did 0-60mph in 4.6 seconds while the Mustang recorded 4.4 seconds. They point out that the average person assumes these cars would be somewhat close in acceleration.

"Thanks to turbo lag, slow-to-respond powertrain computers, overly aggressive traction-control systems, and transmissions programmed for shift comfort even at wide-open throttle, the car you expect to win might lose -- and it might do so dramatically."

The above is an overall comment on the car industry in general.

They then discuss how if you line up the two cars above for a "floor it when the light turns green" race, the "Ford leaves the BMW for dead."

"The X2 isn't broken...but the BMW does have an infuriating delay built into its accelerator pedal (ed: programming). Worse, once the German car's computer finally decides to heed your power request, there's a metric ton of turbo lag."

The article then points out looking at the 5-60mph times would reveal this issue and therefore shouldn't surprise those who look deeper than just the "brake-torqued" launch published 0-60mph time. While the 0-60mph time is 4.6 seconds for such launch, the 5-60mph time is 6.4 seconds (they use a Honda Odyssey minivan as a comparison at 6.6 seconds 5-60mph). The Mustang 5-60 is 5.0 seconds.

They do 5-60mph tests with a sensor on the pedal for when it hits the floor, steady the car at 5mph and then mat the pedal -- hence it elicits exactly what everyone is discussing in this thread.

BMW needs to fix the programming. I wonder what the Mini with the same engine drives like now...
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      02-21-2020, 08:59 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
The March/April edition of Road & Track has an article titled "Why your fast car is slower than you think." They specifically picked out the X2 M35i and compared it against a Mustang Bullitt. In their testing the M35i did 0-60mph in 4.6 seconds while the Mustang recorded 4.4 seconds. They point out that the average person assumes these cars would be somewhat close in acceleration.

"Thanks to turbo lag, slow-to-respond powertrain computers, overly aggressive traction-control systems, and transmissions programmed for shift comfort even at wide-open throttle, the car you expect to win might lose -- and it might do so dramatically."

The above is an overall comment on the car industry in general.

They then discuss how if you line up the two cars above for a "floor it when the light turns green" race, the "Ford leaves the BMW for dead."

"The X2 isn't broken...but the BMW does have an infuriating delay built into its accelerator pedal (ed: programming). Worse, once the German car's computer finally decides to heed your power request, there's a metric ton of turbo lag."

The article then points out looking at the 5-60mph times would reveal this issue and therefore shouldn't surprise those who look deeper than just the "brake-torqued" launch published 0-60mph time. While the 0-60mph time is 4.6 seconds for such launch, the 5-60mph time is 6.4 seconds (they use a Honda Odyssey minivan as a comparison at 6.6 seconds 5-60mph). The Mustang 5-60 is 5.0 seconds.

They do 5-60mph tests with a sensor on the pedal for when it hits the floor, steady the car at 5mph and then mat the pedal -- hence it elicits exactly what everyone is discussing in this thread.

BMW needs to fix the programming. I wonder what the Mini with the same engine drives like now...
Nice find! Wish I knew this before I purchased.
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      02-21-2020, 09:29 AM   #216
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Outstanding update. Of course, as we've all discussed, you can anticipate what's going to happen and compensate via the paddles and settings. But, it would be great to have the default be more livable. Trying to find the paddle during a sustained turn can be a chore. I had a loaner for longer than usual due to my dealer never having changed an M35i oil filter and not having it in stock (yuck,yuck). It was a 2020 X5 (4.0, I think...). Nothing special (and big!), but when I put it in Sport Plus, it behaved flawlessly. Kind of a let down to return to my "constant monitoring" mode in the X2, even though I missed the car dearly...
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      02-24-2020, 09:49 PM   #217
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Having recently tested an X3 M40i, I can report it has that delay too...

Is there any reason why BMW programs this delay into its cars?

Wish some tech wunderkind out there could work out how to code this out of these cars.

I've never tried those power-increasing chip tunes for the ECU. Does anyone know if those improve these programmed delays?
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      03-24-2020, 02:12 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rounderman View Post
I love my M35, I also don't experience anywhere near the throttle lag that everyone reports. Yes I drive mostly in sport. I also don't stomp on the gas at every opportunity, even when I need to go I ease into the throttle and take right off. Never had a close call or near miss because the car wasn't moving when I needed it to. I also experienced a slight lag with my 2013 335 which was a manual. Good luck with the search.
Hi long time lurker first time poster. I've test driven two 2020 M35i's and honestly have not noticed any excessive lag to date. Credentials; had a 15 X1 35i Msport and that thing was lag-city. Even an Alpina flash on the 6 Speed Steptronic didn't really help from a dead stop.

Anyway possibly pulling the trigger on one of these bad boys today, so we'll see. Coming from my current ride, '17 340i with Track Package. Test drove multiple M340i's and X3 M40i's, got a chance to drive the M35i by chance and it hit me right in the feels. Looking forward to more posts on this board and dirty looks from "Real" M car pilots.

Last edited by connerry340i; 03-25-2020 at 04:40 PM..
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      03-24-2020, 07:16 PM   #219
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Haha I love your comment about getting dirty looks. I actually have never had the pleasure of testing an N55 equipped X1.. those are so rare. The 17 340i I thought was really a nice car as well, I just like the higher up sitting on the X2 now that I have a bum back. The lag is only present when you're slowing down for a turn, then deciding that you can get back on it and it's just.. not there and then suddenly it's ape crazy. The regular X1 and X2 all behave the same except the engine/torque curve is really not so much that you notice it like a switch that got flipped too late. I still love to drive the X2 so much because it really is so much fun in it's stock state!
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      03-24-2020, 09:22 PM   #220
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Haha I love your comment about getting dirty looks. I actually have never had the pleasure of testing an N55 equipped X1.. those are so rare. The 17 340i I thought was really a nice car as well, I just like the higher up sitting on the X2 now that I have a bum back. The lag is only present when you're slowing down for a turn, then deciding that you can get back on it and it's just.. not there and then suddenly it's ape crazy. The regular X1 and X2 all behave the same except the engine/torque curve is really not so much that you notice it like a switch that got flipped too late. I still love to drive the X2 so much because it really is so much fun in it's stock state!
You know what? I miss the hell out of that X1. I had a Dinan tune on it and a ton of coding including the Alpina flash and it was hilariously fun to drive...real sleeper. The X2 feels a lot like that car did in its modified state, especially since I'm going with the 20's/no-adaptive suspension.

I'll miss the power from the 340 but not the handling. It has the track package, Pilot Sports AND Dinan Shockware and it still makes me nervous, however power was never that car's problem so I never tuned the engine. Hoping someone drops a tune for the X2 soon, because I think it could be really special with more power in the mid and top end. Otherwise it seems like a really fun car.

Ha yeah on both my test drives some M3/M4 driving numbnuts have tried to test me on the freeway...1) it's a test drive, idiot; 2) I know it ain't a full on M, it's a new age 2002tii with a CSL tribute in the C pillar. Relax, bro...we're good here.
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