[Falafel Combo]

Here's a Goodyear tire commercial presented as a terribly biased and UN-scientific test, courtesy of Auto express.



Acceleration and incline:

Handling (?) and braking

[Falafel Combo]

Now when was the last time you saw an AWD SUV riding on summer tires?


Also, where was the AWD+all-season tire comparison. I must have missed it. I guess it was purposefully omitted since it may have affected Goodyears' sluggish snow tire sales.

[langn08]

I personally opted for X-drive for my winter commute in WI. Gives me a whole new level of confidence I haven't had since I owned my last Subaru.

[cchan21]

my only car was my e46 m3 with winter tires. I had better traction in that car than any of my awd cars.

[ArthurKing1220]

Originally Posted by cchan21

my only car was my e46 m3 with winter tires. I had better traction in that car than any of my awd cars.

Did you try your awd cars with winter tires?

[ArthurKing1220]

Originally Posted by ///M235i

Now when was the last time you saw an AWD SUV riding on summer tires?

One of my cars is an X5 that I do the annual swap out on -- performance tires April - October; winter tires November - March.

[shivaswrath]

RWD+Blizzaks are all you need! :-)

[Dan_335i]

The video woul be better if it was awd+all season with rwd winter and fwd winters

[DVC]

Originally Posted by ArthurKing1220

One of my cars is an X5 that I do the annual swap out on -- performance tires April - October; winter tires November - March.

<--- Me putting the summers back on the X5 in April last year ; )

[ft1330]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

RWD+Blizzaks are all you need! :-)

My setup precisely. Blizzak LM-60 performance winter tires. RWD FTW.

[BavarianFanatic]

No.

[300hp]

I did a lot of research on this topic while trying to figure out whether to get all seasons or winter tires on my F30. This article is interesting, the conclusion being

The Porsche has winter tires

"Although only two of its four wheels are driven, the Porsche tracked true, stopped surely, and felt secure. So did our long-term BMW 328i, equipped with Continental Winter Sport Contact snow tires. Although these rear-drive machines can't accelerate as hard as the RAV4 on snow, they can corner and brake just as well, which is what really counts in the cold fluffy stuff."

http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/...l-drive-page-2

Bottom line is awd with winters comes first, any other setup will have to compete for second spot.

On a different note, the summer tires are best in the wet, see article below
http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...vs-summer.html

[tunjik]

When I bought my 2012 328i RWD with a six speed manual I was concerned about snow but my CA told me that I can buy winter tires and it would be fine. I bought Blizzak LM 60 RFT and my car performed perfectly in Denver Snow. My wife has a 2013 328i with xDrive, Michelin all season tires and she did fine last winter but I like my car better with the winter tires. Her car does fine also for her but I like to have my manual transmission and RWD for summer fun. The dealer swaps out the tires and stores them for you. (First year is free and $100 for this year). My only problem is where I can find a RWD car in Colorado when it is time to trade in. Only xDrive cars are sold here.

[300hp]

This is another interesting article, which concludes as follows:

"Often cited as the transportation cure for winter climates, all-wheel drive is far from a silver bullet. In previous tests, we’ve discovered that an all-wheel-drive vehicle with all-season tires can outaccelerate either a front- or rear-driver on winter rubber, but that’s where the advantage ends. The additional traction of winter tires allows a two-wheel-drive car to outbrake, outturn, and generally outmaneuver its all-wheel-drive brethren. Of course, the unstoppable winter option that can impart visions of rally-driving heroism is the combination of all-wheel drive and winter tires, but possessing all-wheel drive generally sacrifices a rear-drive car’s handling balance in the dry, adds a couple hundred pounds, and comes with a fuel-economy penalty. That’s why our preferred choice is to buy a second set of tires to get through the winter—almost always cheaper than the price of all-wheel drive—while relishing the superior dynamics of rear-wheel drive the rest of the year"

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...l-drive-page-8

Before we get carried away though, please note that they are comparing AWD with all seasons to RWD with winter tires. Also Xdrive only adds a tank of gas worth of weight to the rwd brethren

[ArthurKing1220]

Originally Posted by 300hp

This is another interesting article, which concludes as follows:

Before we get carried away though, please note that they are comparing AWD with all seasons to RWD with winter tires. Also Xdrive only adds a tank of gas worth of weight to the rwd brethren

Exactly. Once you add in snow tires, the advantage would go right back to the AWD. And the disparity between an RWD with all seasons vs. an AWD with all seasons in remarkable -- an AWD with all seasons does fine in winter; an RWD with all seasons will see you in the ditch.


To me, having driven all sorts of RWD and AWD cars, the advantages of AWD in true snow environments are clear. Straight-line acceleration, handling in corners -- basically, anything where you are propelling the car forward -- you are going to do better with an AWD setup. The idea that AWD would equal better braking or ride dynamics or something like that is just a false premise -- if there are actually people who think that they're not getting basic mechanics / physics issues.

[ArthurKing1220]

Originally Posted by DVC

<--- Me putting the summers back on the X5 in April last year ; )

It's a labor of love we endure to have to lug those damn things around. I have the big sport 19s during the summer and they are heavy to get in and out of the trunk to go do the changeover -- just did this last week. (They also turn whatever you're wearing at the time into a black dust rag.)

[300hp]

Originally Posted by ArthurKing1220

The idea that AWD would equal better braking or ride dynamics or something like that is just a false premise -- if there are actually people who think that they're not getting basic mechanics / physics issues.

That was my point in highlighting that AWD adds a tank of gas worth of weight to rwd. I think we can all agree that whatever gains you get for braking or handling with a tank of gas that's in reserve compared to a tank of gas that is full are negligible at best.

In conlusion, it seems to me that AWD maintains its dry weather advantages over rwd in the snow and in the dry with the same set of tires. The same can also be said about the rwd, it maintains its tank of gas weight advantage (and associated benefits) in the dry and in the snow with the same set of tires.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by ArthurKing1220

It's a labor of love we endure to have to lug those damn things around. I have the big sport 19s during the summer and they are heavy to get in and out of the trunk to go do the changeover -- just did this last week. (They also turn whatever you're wearing at the time into a black dust rag.)

I have the stock 18s with Nokian winter tires, and my summer setup is on the 20" 4.6is wheels. I actually store them on wall-mounted hangers over the garage door (high ceiling in my garage). I mounted a winch on the ceiling and a couple of pulleys to help getting those monsters up there twice a year.

Makes changing out my 18# Apex wheels on the 335 seem like child's play...

[ArthurKing1220]

Originally Posted by 300hp

That was my point in highlighting that AWD adds a tank of gas worth of weight to rwd. I think we can all agree that whatever gains you get for braking or handling with a tank of gas that's in reserve compared to a tank of gas that is full are negligible at best.

In conlusion, it seems to me that AWD maintains its dry weather advantages over rwd in the snow and in the dry with the same set of tires. The same can also be said about the rwd, it maintains its tank of gas weight advantage (and associated benefits) in the dry and in the snow with the same set of tires.

I agree with you. And here comes what I'm sure will be the controversial part for RWD fans but a point I nevertheless stand by: the advantages of AWD in a true snow environment vs. RWD are more significant as a matter of kind (i.e., being able to maintain adequate control of your vehicle in severe weather) than the advantages of RWD in the summer vs. AWD. I have been lucky enough to be able to drive lots of different cars and switch between them so I can get the best of both worlds but, if I lived in a winter climate and had only one vehicle, there's no question in my mind that the right decision would be AWD.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by ArthurKing1220

...an RWD with all seasons will see you in the ditch...

I'm sure some all-season tires are better in winter conditions than others, but it's been my experience that a good set of all-seasons are fine for winter. My first BMW was a 2000 (e46) 328Ci - RWD, with all seasons - and it served me quite well while traveling back and forth to Stratton, VT to ski every weekend.

All "winter" tires are not created equal either... true studless winter tires (with an "S" speed rating or lower) are amazing in snow and ice. Some "High-Performance" winter tires in my experience offer no real advantage over some of the better all-season tires. (I imagine there are some significant compromises in terms of tread pattern/compound in order to get the "H" or "V" speed rating on a high-performance winter tire.)
Tire Rack actually did a test not too long ago with a set of all-seasons, high-performance winters, and true studless winters. On ice and snow, the true winter tire stood head and shoulders above, while the other two were very very close.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by ArthurKing1220

I agree with you. And here comes what I'm sure will be the controversial part for RWD fans but a point I nevertheless stand by: the advantages of AWD in a true snow environment vs. RWD are more significant as a matter of kind (i.e., being able to maintain adequate control of your vehicle in severe weather) than the advantages of RWD in the summer vs. AWD. I have been lucky enough to be able to drive lots of different cars and switch between them so I can get the best of both worlds but, if I lived in a winter climate and had only one vehicle, there's no question in my mind that the right decision would be AWD.

Controversial for sure... there have been a few threads recently exhausting this topic thoroughly.
As much as I like AWD (and enjoy pounding through deep snow in my X5), I went back to RWD for my new 335, as the primary purpose of this vehicle is for driving enjoyment on dry roads.

[cchan21]

Originally Posted by ArthurKing1220

Did you try your awd cars with winter tires?

that i have not.

going to put my snows on my 335x this year.