BMW M760Li xDrive V12 Excellence option to be available for more discreet look

[dbs600]

Originally Posted by Eddien123

I'm just surprised they even slapped that V12 badge on there. And in the weirdest spot too

Absolutely correct it's weird.

It's the same exact area of the C-Pillar where people would turn their 1992-1999 Mercedes-Benz S320's into S600's, by improper placement of the V12 badge in the center of the pillar, instead of what was the correct - and more discrete placement - by the lower edge of the rear door window.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by VTECaddict

Why is this not just called the 760i/760Li instead of M760i/M760Li Excellence (aka without M-sport bits)?

Probably because the official manufacturer will be BMW M GmbH, not Bayerische Motoren Werke AG.

[Testercles]

This looks glorious!

[dbs600]

Originally Posted by miamiten

Probably because the official manufacturer will be BMW M GmbH, not Bayerische Motoren Werke AG.

Good call.

Can you please elaborate as well?

Which cars are built where, and why?

Thanks!

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by dbs600

Good call.

Can you please elaborate as well?

Which cars are built where, and why?

Thanks!

That used to be fairly easy. If manufactured by BMW M GmbH, VIN began with WBS. Now it's all mixed up, factories all over the world, and marketing confusion.

From a supplier perspective, all the ///M cars (unless the F85/86 are like the E70/71; those were NOT developed or manufactured under BMW M GmbH), M550d, and some BMW Individual Manufaktur. Technically they also oversee the Alpina Production line for B7 and US/Canada bound B6 Gran Coupe, however those particular vehicles in those two markets are documented and imported as BMW 750ix and BMW 650ix models manufactured by BMW AG. I also believe BMW M, managed initial production of the Rolls Royce Phantom aluminium bodies initially.

Though the M135i, M235i, X4 M40i are in the Portfolio, they are deemed manufactured by BMW AG/USA. Some X5/6 M50d might be depending on the factory.

[dbs600]

Originally Posted by miamiten

That used to be fairly easy. If manufactured by BMW M GmbH, VIN began with WBS. Now it's all mixed up, factories all over the world, and marketing confusion.

From a supplier perspective, all the ///M cars (unless the F85/86 are like the E70/71; those were NOT developed or manufactured under BMW M GmbH), M550d, and some BMW Individual Manufaktur. Technically they also oversee the Alpina Production line for B7 and US/Canada bound B6 Gran Coupe, however those particular vehicles in those two markets are documented and imported as BMW 750ix and BMW 650ix models manufactured by BMW AG. I also believe BMW M, managed initial production of the Rolls Royce Phantom aluminium bodies initially.

Though the M135i, M235i, X4 M40i are in the Portfolio, they are deemed manufactured by BMW AG/USA. Some X5/6 M50d might be depending on the factory.

Thanks for this great insight!

My car is a 2011 750Li xDrive Individual. Thought it was manufactured by BMW M, as BMW Individual is supposedly a subset of same, but my VIN begins with WBA, not WBS. Strange.

I imagine a 550i and an M5 start off at the same plant for their bodies, but are you saying the finished 550i rolls off a different line than the M5 (not simply that the M5 components are engineered and built by BMW M and met on the F10 assembly line or in a different area of the same F10 plant)?

Thoughts as to why there would are separate divisions on a corporate entity level, not just a department level? Seems odd. I understand why plants may be under different entities - for liability purposes - but BMW AG has multiple plants without separate entities regardless.

I wonder which Individual vehicles would be built by BMW M, why they were and why mine was not.

Last, if the M135 and M235's are built by BMW AG (not BMW M), I suspect the M760 would be too, no? Still don't get why BMW is going this weird route, watering down the M brand without being true M cars.

Cheers!

[VTECaddict]

Originally Posted by miamiten

That used to be fairly easy. If manufactured by BMW M GmbH, VIN began with WBS. Now it's all mixed up, factories all over the world, and marketing confusion.

From a supplier perspective, all the ///M cars (unless the F85/86 are like the E70/71; those were NOT developed or manufactured under BMW M GmbH), M550d, and some BMW Individual Manufaktur. Technically they also oversee the Alpina Production line for B7 and US/Canada bound B6 Gran Coupe, however those particular vehicles in those two markets are documented and imported as BMW 750ix and BMW 650ix models manufactured by BMW AG. I also believe BMW M, managed initial production of the Rolls Royce Phantom aluminium bodies initially.

Though the M135i, M235i, X4 M40i are in the Portfolio, they are deemed manufactured by BMW AG/USA. Some X5/6 M50d might be depending on the factory.

Well, that's not confusing at all...

It seems like they can throw around the "BMW M GmbH" around however they please. I would have expected that they keep the "BMW M GmbH" manufacture designation for the real ///M models and not just arbitrarily allow the M Performance models to carry it too.

[VTECaddict]

Originally Posted by dbs600

Thanks for this great insight!

My car is a 2011 750Li xDrive Individual. Thought it was manufactured by BMW M, as BMW Individual is supposedly a subset of same, but my VIN begins with WBA, not WBS. Strange.

I imagine a 550i and an M5 start off at the same plant for their bodies, but are you saying the finished 550i rolls off a different line than the M5 (not simply that the M5 components are engineered and built by BMW M and met on the F10 assembly line or in a different area of the same F10 plant)?

Thoughts as to why there would are separate divisions on a corporate entity level, not just a department level? Seems odd. I understand why plants may be under different entities - for liability purposes - but BMW AG has multiple plants without separate entities regardless.

I wonder which Individual vehicles would be built by BMW M, why they were and why mine was not.

Last, if the M135 and M235's are built by BMW AG (not BMW M), I suspect the M760 would be too, no? Still don't get why BMW is going this weird route, watering down the M brand without being true M cars.

Cheers!

I believe all M models are built in the same plants as their series counterparts, so the BMW M GmbH designation isn't an indicator of where it's built, it's where it was developed.

[dbs600]

Originally Posted by VTECaddict

I believe all M models are built in the same plants as their series counterparts, so the BMW M GmbH designation isn't an indicator of where it's built, it's where it was developed.

Hmm; interesting.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by VTECaddict

I believe all M models are built in the same plants as their series counterparts, so the BMW M GmbH designation isn't an indicator of where it's built, it's where it was developed.

Winner winner chicken dinner. The BMW M GmbH Factory is still in Garching, but outside of development prototypes, special editions, restorations, and Individual Manufaktur, the series production is handled by one of the other factories and has been since 1991. E39 was the first to come off the regular assembly line in Dingolfing back in 1999. Regular Individual, Alpina, and some ///M's make a detour along the way, but they all start in the Body Assembly Shop and drive off at the end of the line.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by dbs600

Thanks for this great insight!

My car is a 2011 750Li xDrive Individual. Thought it was manufactured by BMW M, as BMW Individual is supposedly a subset of same, but my VIN begins with WBA, not WBS. Strange.

I imagine a 550i and an M5 start off at the same plant for their bodies, but are you saying the finished 550i rolls off a different line than the M5 (not simply that the M5 components are engineered and built by BMW M and met on the F10 assembly line or in a different area of the same F10 plant)?

Thoughts as to why there would are separate divisions on a corporate entity level, not just a department level? Seems odd. I understand why plants may be under different entities - for liability purposes - but BMW AG has multiple plants without separate entities regardless.

I wonder which Individual vehicles would be built by BMW M, why they were and why mine was not.

Last, if the M135 and M235's are built by BMW AG (not BMW M), I suspect the M760 would be too, no? Still don't get why BMW is going this weird route, watering down the M brand without being true M cars.

Cheers!

Individual and Individual Manufaktur are separate divisions.

An F10 Body in white is the same for all the models. M5 will have a different body/drivetrain mating position though as the rear subframe is welded directly to the body on the M rather than bolted as other 5er. Useless fact: Fxx M5/6 have the rear subframe from the E60 M5 directly carried over.

At Dingolfing for example, you can have a 7, 3, 4, M6, 520, etc all roll out in succession.

There are also models built in one plant to completion, only to be shipped off to another plant to be disassembled and modified, the X5 and 5er Security models for example. They're either built in Spartanburg, X5, or transit through there, 5er, and then sent to the Toluca Mexico plant for armoring and equipment installation, and finally shipped back to Spartanburg for distribution. Only the 7 High Security and F18 LWB Security are built at the originating factory.

It's not any different than Magna Styern being utilized for production capacity other than its in house under the same umbrella.

[dbs600]

Thanks for all the info!

One day before European Delivery I toured the M Studio with an escort and tracked an M3 with its rear chassis engineer, after which I somewhat regretted my 750 purchase, which I hadn't yet seen; HA!

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by miamiten

Though the M135i, M235i, X4 M40i are in the Portfolio, they are deemed manufactured by BMW AG/USA. Some X5/6 M50d might be depending on the factory.

Aren't all X5 and X6 cars produced in Spartanburg? The X1 is produced in Regensburg and the new G01 X3 will be produced in both Spartanburg and Rosslyn.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Aren't all X5 and X6 cars produced in Spartanburg? The X1 is produced in Regensburg and the new G01 X3 will be produced in both Spartanburg and Rosslyn.

Nope.

Spartanburg
Chennai
Kaliningrad
Rayong
Cairo

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by VTECaddict

I would have expected that they keep the "BMW M GmbH" manufacture designation for the real ///M models and not just arbitrarily allow the M Performance models to carry it too.

I don't know about the new M760 but if its VIN has an 'S' as the third character instead of an 'A,' that will be a first for an M Performance vehicle, as far as I know. Up until now, at least, the way to tell an real M car from an M Performance car, assuming you're totally new to the brand, is to just look at the VIN. If the third letter is an 'S' (for Motorsports), then it's a true M car; if the third letter is an 'A' (for AG), then it's not. All M performance cars have had an 'A,' not an 'S'.

Are we saying that will be different for the M760, which is not an M car? It's an M Performance car.

P.S. -- Cars made in the US do not use the same system.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by miamiten

Nope.

Spartanburg
Chennai
Kaliningrad
Rayong
Cairo

I didn't know that because Spartanburg always touts themselves as producing all X cars (except for the X1) for the entire world.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Ninong

I didn't know that because Spartanburg always touts themselves as producing all X cars (except for the X1) for the entire world.

Only the first generation X5 was exclusive to Spartanburg. Second gen X5 and X6 manufacturing was extended to Kaliningrad due to the explosive demand from the Russian Market. First gen X3 was produced my Magna Steyer in Austria.

The first ///M car with WBS was the E30 M3. The wives tale that "true" ///M cars have to have WBS has never been true.

This one has me stumped though. There have been ///M vehicles that were not branded and marketed as such (850CSi and Z8 being the most recent), but I cannot recall any ///M-Technik or more recently ///M Performance cars that kept the marketing designation and had anything like this "package" offered. The people that know don't even like being asked the question which leads to the suggestion that there is some internal reasoning that not everyone agrees with.

Even the images released are strange. The first interior image is an actual pic, but the last two are renderings that don't match.