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      01-29-2018, 03:26 PM   #67
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Oh...gross...
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      01-29-2018, 03:37 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by -c- View Post
I remember reading somewhere that the hood cutline was that way for pedestrian safety. If they hit someone the facia will bend and be much for forgiving than the sheet metal hood, as it's very horizontal so it cut into you more easily .

Again just what I remember reading Not that I agree as I've always hated the 3 and 4 series cut line as well.
I mentioned several times, that is BULLSHIT!

And please look at X1, X3.... They don't supposed to be under the same pedestrian rule?
many cars do not have lines, yet they are safe. And beautiful.
Just lazy design. BMW is falling...
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      01-29-2018, 04:17 PM   #69
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I don't understand the x2, then again I am biased as I have a 2017 x1 also and the little wagon is growing on me!

Not as fun to drive as my f30 335, but for hauling around our still young kids, it will do
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      01-29-2018, 05:37 PM   #70
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by stvding View Post
BMW should really stop making these stupid cars. X2, 2 series active tourer, 1 series fwd,etc....the brand is falling from a luxury one to a stupid one
Couldn't agree more. Saw the X2 in person yesterday at the Philly Auto Show. It looked awful.

As I stood back and watched others I began to wonder if BMW is purposely abandoning their roots to go after the non car culture millennialist. I can see the X2 being shopped by millennial soccer moms who only want the badge.

The direction Bmw is headed is in response to A. The decline of the enthusiastic car culture. (Sadly most men can't even change a tire, drive stick, or name five parts under the hood. And B. The realization that women are now the primary decision maker in family auto purchases.
And its tech, interior design, material used are not that great either compare to Mercedes, Audi...
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      01-30-2018, 02:41 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
- Kidney grills are horrible. That is one element that is sensiteive to sahpe and dimensions. Too much strech so is getting terrible? Check
- horrible hood line? Check
- front bumber edge with a triangle cut, wow! Can it get worse that that? Check
- Big cheap plastic lip on the front bumper to look like a pig? Check
- akward fog lamps thrown as an aftertought? Check
- glued ipad on the center console? - Check
- phalic shifter? Check
- poor center console design ? yes, Check
- FWD? Yap. Check
- No true xDrive? Yap, check!
- small narrow and tall unconfortable seats? Check
- cheaper materials and lack of cushion between rear seats and C pillar? Check
- four badges on the vehicle? Check.
(“Boss, what about another one on the front fenders?”)

FAIL

Looks good to me.

FWD- Who cares besides track bros? Is the average buyer going to have the need to drift through rush hour traffic? FWD emphasizes packaging efficiency and efficiency overall (MPG) and interior room. It's a win/win/win unless you drive a drift car. Besides you say FWD can't handle? Think Mini.

Design/kidney. Subjective, obviously. But I really like it. And I've been critical of most newer BMWs. The upside down kidneys flow better with the headlight inside edges vs. flowing the opposite way for "normal" kidneys. Not every BMW has to look alike.

The inside.. i dig it. clean/simple. iPad on dash is just a sign of the times. Everyone is doing it.
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      01-30-2018, 05:44 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by E39hijinks View Post
Looks good to me.

FWD- Who cares besides track bros? Is the average buyer going to have the need to drift through rush hour traffic? FWD emphasizes packaging efficiency and efficiency overall (MPG) and interior room. It's a win/win/win unless you drive a drift car. Besides you say FWD can't handle? Think Mini.

Design/kidney. Subjective, obviously. But I really like it. And I've been critical of most newer BMWs. The upside down kidneys flow better with the headlight inside edges vs. flowing the opposite way for "normal" kidneys. Not every BMW has to look alike.

The inside.. i dig it. clean/simple. iPad on dash is just a sign of the times. Everyone is doing it.
Glad you like it. I don't.
Yeap, you can drift through traffic. That MPG is bullocks as we both know.
Interior room? You know, if you install the E84 X1 or any 3 series seats in that "spacious" new F48 you will realize that there is not much improvement except in vertical since the vehicle got taller than previous model. So practically, to provide you with a better visual perception about space they diluted the driving dynamics (no need to explain the lower, the better for "drifting" right?), and the overall behaviour of the car. That also contributed to the toilet seating position that is not the best for longer trips. Plus the narrow seats.
Now, that little space gained by the lack of the shaft is of course a joke; none of these cars is not made for three people in the back so the argument is futile.

Secondly, I really hope that is a bad joke if you compare this thing with a Mini just from the FWD POV. This is basic technical knowledge and common sense.
Please drive the previous X1 based on a Touring platform with a nice, sporty seat position, a RWD biased xDrive and drive this one after. You will get the point. except your senses are not there, or you are not a car guy.
I own a E84 X1 and yes, you have no idea what I am doing and can do with it. Really.
Or please go in the X1 one community and see what some guys are using them for.

Design wise "de gustibus non est disputandum" so we will leave it there. However, for the money, once you are in the FWD territory, there are many options out there.
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      01-31-2018, 05:10 PM   #73
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The X1 is still better looking w/o a doubt. The BMW signage on the side is pretentious as well. Completely unnecessary
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      02-07-2018, 05:28 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by -c- View Post
I remember reading somewhere that the hood cutline was that way for pedestrian safety. If they hit someone the facia will bend and be much for forgiving than the sheet metal hood, as it's very horizontal so it cut into you more easily .

Again just what I remember reading Not that I agree as I've always hated the 3 and 4 series cut line as well.
I mentioned several times, that is BULLSHIT!

And please look at X1, X3.... They don't supposed to be under the same pedestrian rule?
many cars do not have lines, yet they are safe. And beautiful.
Just lazy design. BMW is falling...
Dude we are faced with the same issues when we are designing these things. Just because its a requirement for one car and not another doesn't mean we won't follow it. So no you can't say it's bullshit for certain.

Ignorant.
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      02-09-2018, 04:19 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -c- View Post
Dude we are faced with the same issues when we are designing these things. Just because its a requirement for one car and not another doesn't mean we won't follow it. So no you can't say it's bullshit for certain.

Ignorant.
"Dude",

The last sentence was ignorant...

Now, going over rudeness, let's get to the point:

- X1 and X2 share the same platform, same engine layout, pretty much identical. Not even different vehicle, from a different class, different technical approach, different chassis, etc.
- same vehicle, with different windows and you are telling me that is due to a "requirement". this is puerile.
- The testing X2 vehicles including the main design and prototype vehicle does not have a horizontal hood line. Did you notice that?
- There are many vehicles with a bigger front impact surface are more aggressive toward pedestrian impact, yet they don't have a horizontal line.
- One of my best friends is a designer for VW (one of the few guys that worked on Veyron) and he also told me clearly that the bumper takes all the charge and are designed to submerge in a case of an impact. As he mentioned, many times, the hood line design approach is chosen due to other reasons (technical approach for, locks, design, other components that don't want to be exposed under the hood and are not exposed to accidental touch, etc.) and never because of pedestrian rule. He calls that bullshit.
- Not the last, do you know the pedestrian rule and what that means? - Also based on that, can you please elaborate about the "requirements" you are talking about and enlighten us why in X1 and X3 the approach was different than the X2?
-I also have some design experience so I am waiting fro yuor reply... DUDE
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      02-09-2018, 04:25 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by -c- View Post
Dude we are faced with the same issues when we are designing these things. Just because its a requirement for one car and not another doesn't mean we won't follow it. So no you can't say it's bullshit for certain.

Ignorant.
"Dude",

The last sentence was ignorant...

Now, going over rudeness, let's get to the point:

- X1 and X2 share the same platform, same engine layout, pretty much identical. Not even different vehicle, from a different class, different technical approach, different chassis, etc.
- same vehicle, with different windows and you are telling me that is due to a "requirement". this is puerile.
- The testing X2 vehicles including the main design and prototype vehicle does not have a horizontal hood line. Did you notice that?
- There are many vehicles with a bigger front impact surface are more aggressive toward pedestrian impact, yet they don't have a horizontal line.
- One of my best friends is a designer for VW (one of the few guys that worked on Veyron) and he also told me clearly that the bumper takes all the charge and are designed to submerge in a case of an impact. As he mentioned, many times, the hood line design approach is chosen due to other reasons (technical approach for, locks, design, other components that don't want to be exposed under the hood and are not exposed to accidental touch, etc.) and never because of pedestrian rule. He calls that bullshit.
- Not the last, do you know the pedestrian rule and what that means? - Also based on that, can you please elaborate about the "requirements" you are talking about and enlighten us why in X1 and X3 the approach was different than the X2?
-I also have some design experience so I am waiting fro yuor reply... DUDE
Whatever you can have your opinion.

Wasn't being rude, just your opinion is very short sighted. And everybody has a friend in the business.

Unless you design these cars for a living and deal with stuff day to day then you just can't justify short sighted claims Dutch as these.

I deal with hearing this stuff all day long from people who don't know all the intricacies of product design so I pop my lid. Sorry that you took the brunt that day.

Either way it's done and if you don't like it move on or buy another brand who do not in your mind take shortcuts. Simple move vote with your wallet.


Volkswagen I feel has better designers (just an opinion) and every designer as well as engineers all have strengths but what your missing is it's not all up to the designer or engineer it's the platform and the cost of the whole project. Their may have been other reasons that that was not done.

Volkswagen has their way Bmw has theirs. Audi takes a different path to meet requirements. Their lower diffusers cheat the length requirement. Every company is different.

Again my original stance stands unless you where at Bmw when the discussions and decisions where made you have no evidence to support your claim. Just say you don't like it! That's simple and to the point and a very good opinion but to say its shortcuts and all that you just can't say.

Would you pay another 5k for the car to have the hood shaped differently ? Some would not. So sacrifices are made.
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      02-09-2018, 05:16 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -c- View Post
Whatever you can have your opinion.

Wasn't being rude, just your opinion is very short sighted. And everybody has a friend in the business.

Unless you design these cars for a living and deal with stuff day to day then you just can't justify short sighted claims Dutch as these.

I deal with hearing this stuff all day long from people who don't know all the intricacies of product design so I pop my lid. Sorry that you took the brunt that day.

Either way it's done and if you don't like it move on or buy another brand who do not in your mind take shortcuts. Simple move vote with your wallet.


Volkswagen I feel has better designers (just an opinion) and every designer as well as engineers all have strengths but what your missing is it's not all up to the designer or engineer it's the platform and the cost of the whole project. Their may have been other reasons that that was not done.

Volkswagen has their way Bmw has theirs. Audi takes a different path to meet requirements. Their lower diffusers cheat the length requirement. Every company is different.

Again my original stance stands unless you where at Bmw when the discussions and decisions where made you have no evidence to support your claim. Just say you don't like it! That's simple and to the point and a very good opinion but to say its shortcuts and all that you just can't say.

Would you pay another 5k for the car to have the hood shaped differently ? Some would not. So sacrifices are made.
I thank you for your response, yet, you did not provided a technical explanation in regards with the requirements you were mentioning above.
The X1 is not 5K more for not having a horizontal line, au contrary, quite the opposite.
Two perfectly identical cars, at least from bumber to windshield -which is what matters here-, but two different design approaches. However, in your defense, and mine, nobody suggested official that is because of "pedestrian rule", because that is not true anyway. My answer was a reply to a post that claims that and which might not be the proper reason for this design approach.
My point was that it is not the pedestrian rule that triggered that choice. And if BMW will claim that, I will call that BS.
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      02-09-2018, 05:49 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by -c- View Post
Whatever you can have your opinion.

Wasn't being rude, just your opinion is very short sighted. And everybody has a friend in the business.

Unless you design these cars for a living and deal with stuff day to day then you just can't justify short sighted claims Dutch as these.

I deal with hearing this stuff all day long from people who don't know all the intricacies of product design so I pop my lid. Sorry that you took the brunt that day.

Either way it's done and if you don't like it move on or buy another brand who do not in your mind take shortcuts. Simple move vote with your wallet.


Volkswagen I feel has better designers (just an opinion) and every designer as well as engineers all have strengths but what your missing is it's not all up to the designer or engineer it's the platform and the cost of the whole project. Their may have been other reasons that that was not done.

Volkswagen has their way Bmw has theirs. Audi takes a different path to meet requirements. Their lower diffusers cheat the length requirement. Every company is different.

Again my original stance stands unless you where at Bmw when the discussions and decisions where made you have no evidence to support your claim. Just say you don't like it! That's simple and to the point and a very good opinion but to say its shortcuts and all that you just can't say.

Would you pay another 5k for the car to have the hood shaped differently ? Some would not. So sacrifices are made.
I thank you for your response, yet, you did not provided a technical explanation in regards with the requirements you were mentioning above.
The X1 is not 5K more for not having a horizontal line, au contrary, quite the opposite.
Two perfectly identical cars, at least from bumber to windshield -which is what matters here-, but two different design approaches. However, in your defense, and mine, nobody suggested official that is because of "pedestrian rule", because that is not true anyway. My answer was a reply to a post that claims that and which might not be the proper reason for this design approach.
My point was that it is not the pedestrian rule that triggered that choice. And if BMW will claim that, I will call that BS.
Ok whatever just a bad design then I'm done arguing.

I don't have to answer technical info as I don't have any because I don't work for Bmw.

Just because their isn't a requirement doesn't mean they don't have to do what they think is right. The i3 had an airbag recall because of an issue Bmw feels they have even though they technically pass the safety standard but their doing it because they want a standard the company wants to hold itself to...


Our company has had issues like this where what Bmw did was preferred because they didn't want Steel to hit a person, end of story .... call it what you want. If Bmw wants to say that because it's better PR then that's their right.

As a designer myself I don't like it! simple as that never have but it's NOT THAT SIMPLE TO SAY "LAZY DESIGN!" that's my point. Theirs tons of shit I have to deal with that I hate but it's decisions above my pay grade and I have to Execute.

Wouldn't I love a job to just go to work and draw a sexy car and throw it on my bosses desk and say make it! Sure ! But that doesn't exist.

Design is just a very small part of a very big machine.
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